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Just heard...Colts have an Anthem knee taker aare one of the teams; ; Statement to Colts fans from the players;
Topic Started: Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM (264 Views)
advanced32
Pro Bowl'er
I want to know who he or they are. I am instantly an anti-fan. I don't care if they do interviews and express whatever opinions they have. I'm 100% fine with that. But taking a knee, sitting, turning their back or in any way disrespecting the flag is insulting to me and to the country they are privileged to live and work in. This kinda protest is inappropriate. If this team officially takes the position endorsing this behavior I will officially end my Colts fanhood....and...if that happens, I see no way to attach my real feeling toward another team...so that would end me and the NFL. I really don't care to put it to a vote and if Robert Mathis, my favorite player in Indy, tried to talk me out of it...he be wasting his time.

This is not a political thing...its an unforgivable act of disrespect to millions of Americans...not just those who are alive but mostly those who put their lives at risk so posterity could continue to live free. I believe we benefit from observing symbols like the flag. Theseazzholes have to understand this.

Important point: I was born and raised in the deep south. As a kid I used to draw the confederate flag, like other kids I knew did. It wasn't until I was in college that I first understood that that flag was viewed by some as a racist symbol. After seeing film of KKK members tote'n it at their rallies, I certainly understood how a symbol of regional pride for me was a symbol of racism for many others. Therefore, I never flew that flag on my car antenna or never displayed it in any way because I thought it would be disrespectful. These same protesters today aren't dealing with the confusion I experienced as a kid. The American flag doesn't represent bad cops who are out to gun down minorities, I'd protest those people too. In fact, I have known several cops I would protest. There are jerks in every field of work. Disrespecting the American flag speaks of ignorance and a total lack of appreciation.

I just wanna know who this player is.....or players.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Gary1888
Sep 25 2017, 10:02 AM
Don't disagree with you either Bent but I don't see liberal speakers having speaking engagements cancelled due to the threats of violence. As far as Trump throwing gasoline on it, again...a persons opinion...and that all his statement was, his opinion that the NFL should fire players who take a knee...is only gasoline because it doesn't fall in line with the thinking of the left. Would you see this uproar from the right if the situation was reversed? Take what Advanced said originally concerning the Confederate flag and add the Southern Civil War monuments. With these being removed, do you see riots in the streets and protest against the country in those areas by citizens on the right? Now reverse these and what do you think happens? I agree there are extremists on both sides that will always be a problem but what is allowed from the left is a whole lot broader field...in my opinion.
When the president makes incendiary comments and calls players SOBs, that's taking it to another level. That's not just sharing his opinion, it's trying to motivate people to act and respond, sometimes in very violent ways (see his campaign rallies). In the past, presidents have always been cautious with their opinions because they recognize they represent everyone and they don't want to incite violence and hatred. Of course people will still take issue with things they say (the right certainly did with a lot of comments from Obama). As for violence against the left, I don't think it gets anymore violent than Gabrielle Giffords being shot in the head.

I would just add, I think it's important not to take a me and my party vs them stance. It just becomes a repetitive cycle where we never make any new ground. I know a lot of people don't like talking politics in forums like this, so I don't want to drag it on, but when some of you ask what to do these players want, this is it. They want us to talk through the issues and hear each other.
Edited by Bent20, Sep 25 2017, 11:37 AM.
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advanced32
Pro Bowl'er
My cousin came over and we watched the game. I told him about my original post and asked him about his thoughts. I believe he misheard me like some on here misread me.

To be clear.....These players have a 1st amendment right to take a knee, stand with their hats on, put their fist in the air and so on. Its a choice they have been handed thanks to a whole lotta people, including our founding fathers and the way to the guys right now tending to blisters or whatever ailment that comes with serving his country. That right and many others are what that flag represents. Why choose to be disrespectful the the flag or to our National Anthem?

I never said they didn't have the right. What I am saying is...if this is appropriate then soon other groups will do the same, probably while wearing certain colored armbands to signify exactly what cause they represent.

Finally, Trump is an idiot. If you want to debate that then lets go. His comments were stupid and inappropriate for his office...not to mention his mention of, "They are hurting the game" comment about head shots and the penalties.

Finally plus....while the protesters have the right to knell...owners have the right to get rid of them. That's his right. Unfortunately, that is not what they believe is popular, primarily because American patriots, not the team, are NOT as loud as those who throw rocks and get all the media coverage.

PLUS....This statement.... "Standing against racists who are just looking for a reason to hate those black "sons of bitches" who are kneeling during their precious anthem." ...is not helpful....mainly because it lacks proper punctuation and the "precious anthem" reference. Why throw that in?
One more thing...I'm all for having a conversation about racism in America. I believe it would be very helpful...but a conversation can't be had until its OK to actually speak your mind without feeling afraid of getting bashed and branded a racist. Right now, it ain't that way. All conversations have to agree with the pretend fact that blacks are being mowed down in the streets by freckle faced white cops who are probably KKK sympathizers. There would be many very helpful and interesting stories to tell by people like me concerning racists and racism, but it wouldn't match the narrative that has already been established by the left. Like I said before, I am currently considering what I want to do. I expect to either do something symbolic or just bail out all together. I'm not happy about this. To say I'm not happy with our idiot owner....that would be piling on.
Edited by advanced32, Sep 25 2017, 12:22 PM.
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MrCCCs
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Sep 25 2017, 11:26 AM
If you're sick of it being broadcast on your TV then speak up! Speak up against the unequal treatment that minorities face on a daily basis. Then the players will stop kneeling and the media will finally stop talking about it, just like you're hoping
Nobody in the nfl stood for the anthem before the military started paying the league to start doing patriotic events. That is a fact. Where was the outrage then? It wasn't even 10 years ago
Can we get a mod to put this in "the pub"? This isn't football talk
What makes you think we aren't speaking up? But I believe stating that minorities receive unequal treatment on a daily basis is a gross exaggeration, not based on reality, and makes it more difficult to address actual problems and their causes which minorities face. That's the kind of rhetoric that does this discussion no good, imo.

As long as I can remember, the NFL has played the national anthem and people stood while it was played/sung, even though it wasn't official until 2009. But it really doesn't matter, because the issue is not that they are taking a knee but that they are protesting the country because of problems within it. If I knew what they wanted to accomplish apart from the rhetoric it might be different. If it didn't feel like a slap in the face to the overwhelming majority of America who works hard to make this a great place to live and who strive every day to be accepting of diversity (and we've seen tremendous strides in that direction), then it might not be perceived so much as a bunch of whining millionaires who just want to protest something. (paraphrasing what seems to be the sentiment, and not the way I'd put it at all)

I am disappointed in the President for his remarks, but that isn't unusual. I am not a Trump fan at all. I like much of what he has actually done, but as a person and the personality he brings to the presidency is very immature.
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Gary1888
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Bent20
Sep 25 2017, 11:34 AM
quote]When the president makes incendiary comments and calls players SOBs, that's taking it to another level. As for violence against the left, I don't think it gets anymore violent than Gabrielle Giffords being shot in the head.

Your right on the SOB comment. I missed that and he was wrong to use that term. As far as other presidents being careful of what they say....a lot of that is politics and that's what many people are sick of. Many politicians are really good at saying what you want to hear and not what they really think. O'bama to Putin "After the election, I'll have a lot more flexibility" would be an example.The Gabrielle Gifford shooting was one idiot...same as the idiot that went to softball practice to shoot all the republicans he could and same as the idiot that went into a South Carolina church and murdered several black people just because they were black. These morons exist and walk among us. They are individuals, not movements that interrupt the free flow of ideas like what is happening with canceling of conservative speakers being allowed their voice because of the threats and carrying out of violence. Communication is a two way street. When I was younger, I was probably what would be referred to as a Kennedy Democrat. I can't identify with the democratic party at all any more and fear for where this country will end up if it keeps moving the direction is has been long before Trump was relevant.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Sep 25 2017, 11:26 AM
Can we get a mod to put this in "the pub"? This isn't football talk
Great idea.
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isamuelson
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I'll tell you what is most disgusting. First off, I believe you should stand out of respect, but the operative word is "should". I guess we could become like North Korea and force you to stand and if you don't, you go to jail. No thanks. I understand they have the freedom to kneel, and I have the freedom to feel it's disrespectful but I won't force them to stand.

However, Tomlin of the Steelers apparently wanted total team unity and wanted the entire team to stand in the tunnel instead of having a mix of kneeling and standing. Well, everyone did except one player. Alejandro Villanueva, the Pittsburgh Steelers’ starting left tackle, decided to go out of the tunnel and stand. He is a former Army Ranger who served in Afghanistan and a West Point graduate. Apparently, Tomlin didn't take too kindly to that and stated in his press conference the following:

“Like I said, I was looking for 100 percent participation, we were gonna be respectful of our football team,” Tomlin said when asked about Villanueva ignoring the order and coming out for the anthem.

Hmm. It's okay for the people who want to kneel to do so without repercussion, but if you want to force someone to stay in the tunnel against their will due to what Trump said, that's okay too? You can't have it both ways, Tomlin. Lost all respect for you there.

And for what it's worth, I don't feel what Trump said was appropriate. He should have stayed out of it. As much as people may hate me for it, I voted for him and I still support him, just not in this instance. This was definitely one those times he opened his mouth when it should have stayed shut. What he did was embolden them and now look at the mess it's created. Kind of like when Obama went off on the all the police acting stupidly before he got all the facts, and then he had egg on his face and had to call the police in for a beer meeting.
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CanadianColtsFan
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A bunch of white guys telling black people who battle systemic racism and oppression on a daily basis how to feel and act about it. Classic.

If you do not think there is a racism issue in the US, especially concerning the police force, you are delusional. If you are steadfastly against these protests, you are standing with the side of racism. You certainly do not have to partake, it just shouldn't bother you so much that others are. Not a single player has spoken out against the military. That isn't the point of the protest. Everyone saying that is just looking for something to be upset about.

Standing for the national anthem as some sort of tribute is an act you are entitled to. I don't think I've read any of these protesters denouncing the people who do stand, they just choose not to.

Question for all, every Saturday and Sunday when you are watching football at home do you stand at attention every time the anthem is played? I hope so.

Patriotism comes in many forms. I feel it is being conflated with flag waving, military only, rah-rah attitudes. I feel that standing up for what you believe in (and I'm the face of a bunch of people who hate you for doing it) to try and make your country a better place for many of its citizens is very patriotic. But that's just me.
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Edited by CanadianColtsFan, Sep 25 2017, 02:51 PM.
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Gary1888
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A quick question for you...how many non-white Canadian Prime Ministers have there been?
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Quote:
 
A bunch of white guys telling black people who battle systemic racism and oppression on a daily basis how to feel and act about it. Classic.


Almost as classic as a Canadian talking about what life is like for Americans. Especially a white Canadian talking about black America.
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MrCCCs
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Yes. What is classic is the line that since we are white we can't possibly understand what others go through, we are racists to criticize these protests, and that somehow we think neo-nazis and white supremacists are 'fine people'. All without any knowledge of who we are, how we treat other people, and what the cultural situation might be. And all without, coincidentally, anything other than your perception of how things are to justify your accusations. I sincerely want to know how to address the accusations that you have leveled, and how our national culture can overcome racism.

So give me some evidence that I am delusional about our racist police force. Not individual examples, because I know there are those, as there are those of targeting police by minorities. Data that supports an increase in raciallly motivated persecution of minorities.
Edited by MrCCCs, Sep 25 2017, 04:22 PM.
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CanadianColtsFan
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Gary1888
Sep 25 2017, 03:34 PM
A quick question for you...how many non-white Canadian Prime Ministers have there been?
Oh, Canada has all sorts of problems. What's your point?
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Stones, glass houses, etc.
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CanadianColtsFan
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Honestly this is not meant as a cop-out, but if you really need me to lay out some compelling case that there is historic and continuing systemic racism against Blacks in America, then it isn't really worth having the discussion. You really can't possibly be denying that. The protests aren't just against the Police force, it's the whole system.

No, I'm not black. Correct, I'm not even American. I haven't walked an inch (You crazy Americans with your imperial system) in a black Americans shoes. But I respect the fact that I have no idea what it is like to be them, so if this many people feel so passionately about something I choose to take them seriously rather than deny them.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Many people who don't like the kneeling during the anthem aren't upset because of WHY they are kneeling (though of course some are). Hell, some of us even agree with their position (me being one of them). It's the vehicle of HOW they show they are upset that causes the message to be blurred.

You can have a correct message and express it in the wrong way. That's what this is.
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advanced32
Pro Bowl'er
Taking a knee, in this case originally, wasn't a protest....it was supposed to be an awareness thing. It became a protest after others characterized it as such. That characterization, a protest, is actually more accurate My point is this....the issue Kapshisname wanted me and others like me to be aware of....isn't getting a very good "look see" because...on the way to making me aware he disrespected my country and pizzed me off. That is not a very good way to help me and others like me to be aware. Had he held a news conference or gotten on some talk/news shows then we can discuss it. But right now this topic has simply served to draw hard lines between me and others like me and the people who don't mind dising my country.

For the record...I am not or nor have I ever been a member of the Nazi party. I did wear a pillow case on my head once but I was going for the ghost thing...not a KKK dude. Calling people Nazis and racists when you don't know them is stupid and if you are posting from north of the border and you done this ...you can kiss my old XXL white azz.
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CanadianColtsFan
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That is fair. I would argue less "dramatic" or potentially incendiary ways haven't really worked.

I just fundamentally have no problem with a peaceful protest that isn't harming anyone, or even inconveniencing anyone.


No wasn't intending the image to be you. That was a nod to the dope who reignited this issue. I have no problem with any of you, I respect your side of the discussion. Trump I have a problem with.
Edited by CanadianColtsFan, Sep 25 2017, 05:43 PM.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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I would argue that this isn't really working, either. It's pissing people off more than it is helping their cause. Nothing has really changed since this all happened except to alienate a good portion of the NFL's audience and create more hard feelings toward the cause it's supposed to be bringing awareness to.
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CanadianColtsFan
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I would argue the opposite (shocker, ha). It is bringing a lot of very influential people to speak up on this issue when they had not previously. The people it is truly pissing off are prioritizing patriotism over the mistreatment of people within their own country. I'm trying to be delicate here, but I think many of the people truly pissed off about this were going to be hard to win over anyway.


Nobody likes when a protest blocks traffic and makes them late for something. I hate it too. To the people directly affected it doesn't seem like a good way to win them over. But you have to ask yourself how serious they must think the issue is if they are willing to go about it in this way. For me it's about priorities. Steve Kerr said it well:

"How about the irony of, ‘Free speech is fine if you’re a neo-Nazi chanting hate slogans, but free speech is not allowed to kneel in protest?'” Kerr added. “No matter how many times a football player says, ‘I honor our military, but I’m protesting police brutality and racial inequality,’ it doesn’t matter. Nationalists are saying, ‘You’re disrespecting our flag.’ Well, you know what else is disrespectful to our flag? Racism. And one’s way worse than the other.”
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MikeB
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Canadian, I seriously doubt many people who think it is disrespectful to not stand for the national anthem believe there is no racism in America. The issue to me is that the American flag and the national anthem are only about what is GOOD about America, nothing bad, the flag and anthem have nothing to do with racism. It is interesting to me that the players seem to believe the people who think we should stand don't understand why they are doing what they are doing. But it seems to me the players are clueless (or do they want to intentionally upset people) why not standing for the anthem really bothers people; they can only see their side of the issue.

I don't have a problem with the players or anyone else protesting racism by marching, carrying signs, going on twitter, or airing their opinions on radio or tv; I just have a strong opinion they are misguided in thinking not standing during the anthem is an appropriate method of protest. Whether they believe it or not, not standing is being disrespectful to the good that the flag stands for. While you think not standing is bringing the race issue out for valid discussion; just as I think it was not helpful for Trump to express his views the way he did, it is not helpful for players to not stand during the national anthem - doing this only makes the divide larger not smaller related this important issue.

Their is certainly racism in America as I'm sure there is in Canada. Racism is a spiritual issue but that is another discussion for another time I guess....

MikeB
Edited by MikeB, Sep 25 2017, 06:19 PM.
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Weatherman
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Sep 25 2017, 11:26 AM
If you're sick of it being broadcast on your TV then speak up! Speak up against the unequal treatment that minorities face on a daily basis. Then the players will stop kneeling and the media will finally stop talking about it, just like you're hoping
Nobody in the nfl stood for the anthem before the military started paying the league to start doing patriotic events. That is a fact. Where was the outrage then? It wasn't even 10 years ago
Can we get a mod to put this in "the pub"? This isn't football talk
So you're going to opine, but then complain it's in the wrong thread? No hypocrisy there.
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IronPony1965
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Trump is an asshole for saying what he did, no doubt. Using his position to say some ignorant shit like that is ridiculous.

I just wish i wouldnt get a freaking ALERT on my phone about what teams are kneeling or standing. Then another alert about specific players. I dont want to say I dont care because i DO. No one should ever be treated badly, unless they deserve it (and honestly i shrug my shoulders at a whole lot of these cases of "abuse" because it looks like there isnt a lot of compliance). But maybe thats just because im an asshole too.

Honestly, i feel like kneeling down for the anthem is accomplishing exactly zero. Is it stupid to say that? I have seen exactly no change anywhere, nor have i heard of anything. As for joining the masses and speaking up in hopes of fixing the issue, I feel like ive got enough of my own problems. And ya im a white guy. Worked my ass off for what ive got, never been in jail and live off of hot pockets and chicken nuggets.
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MrCCCs
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Sep 25 2017, 05:22 PM
Honestly this is not meant as a cop-out, but if you really need me to lay out some compelling case that there is historic and continuing systemic racism against Blacks in America, then it isn't really worth having the discussion. You really can't possibly be denying that. The protests aren't just against the Police force, it's the whole system.

No, I'm not black. Correct, I'm not even American. I haven't walked an inch (You crazy Americans with your imperial system) in a black Americans shoes. But I respect the fact that I have no idea what it is like to be them, so if this many people feel so passionately about something I choose to take them seriously rather than deny them.
Yeah, it is unfortunately a cop-out. I say that because every time I try to deal with the issue I get the same line; 'if you don't see it then you're just another racist and blind to what is going on' and vague references to 'the system'. I am not saying there aren't problems. Nobody is. Whenever two cultures exist in the same geography, their differences will cause tension that minorities will feel threatened by, whether intended or not. I'm sympathetic, and actively work to bridge barriers, but there is no place on earth that works as hard and as well to bridge barriers as the United States of America. I'm proud of my country, and the Christian heritage that has overcome so much evil and self-corrected so much injustice and bigotry. This country tries to the extreme to provide opportunities for minorities, and to protect the rights of minorities, and celebrate this melting pot. I can list community funded projects to provide better living conditions, job opportunities, and safe environments. I can list scholarship programs, school revitalization projects, church sponsored resources, prayer groups, and state projects to provide for all impoverished people, minorities included and often treated preferentially. There's a lot of government and public funds trying hard over decades to allow the black culture to receive whatever assistance might allow families to share in the American dream.

I think we both agree there's more to be done. And honestly, I'm with you on the idea that a demonstration and awareness can be a good thing. I think it can still become that, if our president doesn't screw it up and the league/players can make clear what they are doing and why.

We do have a culture in our country that just likes to protest, and often protests in violent ways and for inappropriate things. There's actually a lot of that now, and I think that adds to this drama and makes it more volatile than it should be. People are kind of sick of it.

I think you can probably provide me counter-points I can learn from, and I welcome that. Not trying to sound bitter towards your position. But it is hard for me to hear someone suggest that I am blind and dumb when it comes to racism in America. I know the history and the present. And please don't insinuate that I am denying anybody. That's what makes conscientious American white males feel exasperated. I and the overwhelming majority of Americans are trying, and don't like our efforts being rejected without substance.

While we're at it, let's stir the pot. I have no problem taking down statues that celebrate the confederacy. Historical displays? Sure. Monuments? No. (But not allowing an ESPN broadcaster to call a college game because his name is Robert Lee was pretty stupid, imo.) :whistle:
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Posted ImageBent20
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I don't think it's about being able to see an immediate change, it's about getting people to talk about it and understand each other. In that respect, you can see it happening right here with what has been a really interesting and healthy discussion, in my opinion.
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advanced32
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Bent20
Sep 25 2017, 09:39 PM
I don't think it's about being able to see an immediate change, it's about getting people to talk about it and understand each other. In that respect, you can see it happening right here with what has been a really interesting and healthy discussion, in my opinion.
I very much disagree with this. Interesting? A productive talk about racism this is not...its about dissing the flag and how that is wrong. Nobody is bringing up stats about bad cops shooting black people or how many blacks are in prison and is that proportional and if not why. No we aren't discussing those facts. We are calling some names and assuming the worst about others intentions. Oh yea, we also have to hear for foreigners who think they are experts in all things American. Taking a knee hasn't helped the talk, it has put of a WALL for me.

Its like my neighbor wants to tell me my dog is barking too much so he pulls away and breaks boards from my fence, I paid for, in order to better express himself. I hear what he says but all I now want to hear is how he's gonna fix my damn fence and he's telling me, "That's not why I here." In this scenario I probably find another dog that really barks....not the right thing to do but its human. I'm pretty human.
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Gary1888
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Sep 25 2017, 05:14 PM
Gary1888
Sep 25 2017, 03:34 PM
A quick question for you...how many non-white Canadian Prime Ministers have there been?
Oh, Canada has all sorts of problems. What's your point?
My point is this:
Me from an earlier post:
"I don't disagree with you Bodey but as intolerant as the left has become, there is never a right time and place for anybody right of Bernie Sanders to express their opinion without being labeled and shouted down".

You from an earlier post:
" If you are steadfastly against these protests, you are standing with the side of racism."


You are stating right here that anybody who doesn't agree with these players...which you obviously do... in their method is a racist. I would tell you that's bullshit but does illustrate the point I was making to Bodey. You are quick to label those that have a different opinion than you do. I would also say that your posting of the Nazi salute plays to the shouted down comment. Kind of like antifa. You know, the group that actually acts like fascists but puts anti in front of it because it makes them sound cool.

And oh by the way...this racist country elected a black man as our President not once but twice and I would argue that were there not term limits on the office, there's a good chance he'd have been elected a third time and likely received votes from many people you now label as racists because they don't agree with the methods of the kneelers. I hope your as passionate and working toward solutions for improving the lives of non-whites in Canada as you are the USA.
Edited by Gary1888, Sep 26 2017, 08:34 AM.
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CanadianColtsFan
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It was a mistake to insinuate anyone who disagrees with these players is a racist. I don't think everyone who feels this way is a racist, but I do think it is prioritizing patriotism over a large issue that plagues the US though. The protest is peaceful. It isn't harming anyone. I just have a hard time getting my head around people who are so enraged by it. It seems an un-American reaction to have. Land of the free and all. I know it goes in circles, the land of the free allows the freedom to disagree with it. I just fundamentally don't understand it.

As for Obama, that's good. I certainly don't think the entire country is some "racist country". I do think this past election has stirred up some feelings and actions in SOME Americans that is pretty alarming. I think most would agree on that. It has shed a light on an ugly side of America. The minority no doubt, but maybe too vocal of one.

As for myself, I try to do what I can do make lives better for all Canadians. I'm no public servant though, modest charity and spending some of my time for causes I believe in is all I can really do.

To be so defensive because I'm Canadian seems weird. I never said Canada was perfect, or even better than the US. I never brought up Canada at all. Though I'm not sure being Canadian means I know any less about the plight of blacks in America than some 50 year old white dude from Indiana. I was just voicing my opinion on this issue, as one does on online message boards.
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Posted ImageBodey
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MrCCCs
Sep 25 2017, 07:25 PM

Yeah, it is unfortunately a cop-out. I say that because every time I try to deal with the issue I get the same line; 'if you don't see it then you're just another racist and blind to what is going on' and vague references to 'the system'. I am not saying there aren't problems. Nobody is. Whenever two cultures exist in the same geography, their differences will cause tension that minorities will feel threatened by, whether intended or not. I'm sympathetic, and actively work to bridge barriers, but there is no place on earth that works as hard and as well to bridge barriers as the United States of America. I'm proud of my country, and the Christian heritage that has overcome so much evil and self-corrected so much injustice and bigotry. This country tries to the extreme to provide opportunities for minorities, and to protect the rights of minorities, and celebrate this melting pot. I can list community funded projects to provide better living conditions, job opportunities, and safe environments. I can list scholarship programs, school revitalization projects, church sponsored resources, prayer groups, and state projects to provide for all impoverished people, minorities included and often treated preferentially. There's a lot of government and public funds trying hard over decades to allow the black culture to receive whatever assistance might allow families to share in the American dream.

I think we both agree there's more to be done. And honestly, I'm with you on the idea that a demonstration and awareness can be a good thing. I think it can still become that, if our president doesn't screw it up and the league/players can make clear what they are doing and why.

We do have a culture in our country that just likes to protest, and often protests in violent ways and for inappropriate things. There's actually a lot of that now, and I think that adds to this drama and makes it more volatile than it should be. People are kind of sick of it.

I think you can probably provide me counter-points I can learn from, and I welcome that. Not trying to sound bitter towards your position. But it is hard for me to hear someone suggest that I am blind and dumb when it comes to racism in America. I know the history and the present. And please don't insinuate that I am denying anybody. That's what makes conscientious American white males feel exasperated. I and the overwhelming majority of Americans are trying, and don't like our efforts being rejected without substance.

While we're at it, let's stir the pot. I have no problem taking down statues that celebrate the confederacy. Historical displays? Sure. Monuments? No. (But not allowing an ESPN broadcaster to call a college game because his name is Robert Lee was pretty stupid, imo.) :whistle:
Very well said, pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the subject.
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Rjinda
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I've heard people say a lot that "you don't know what it's like to be a black man in America" and I agree I don't. It's also fair to say that I don't know what it's like to be a white police officer trying to do my job in a black community where everyone has been told you are out to harm them. There needs to be more understanding on both sides of this issue.
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Posted ImageBodey
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Rjinda
Sep 26 2017, 11:13 AM
I've heard people say a lot that "you don't know what it's like to be a black man in America" and I agree I don't. It's also fair to say that I don't know what it's like to be a white police officer trying to do my job in a black community where everyone has been told you are out to harm them. There needs to be more understanding on both sides of this issue.
100% agree with this also.

Also I would like to say that the way the Cowboys and Cardinals handled this issue before the MNF contest was the most respectful way of showing their solidarity with "the cause" during the entire weekend's slate of games. I hope the other 30 franchises noticed how they "protested" without actually kneeling during the presentation of colors and National Anthem.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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I didn't bother watching. What did they do?
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