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| Just heard...Colts have an Anthem knee taker aare one of the teams; ; Statement to Colts fans from the players; | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM (266 Views) | |
| advanced32 | Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM Post #1 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I want to know who he or they are. I am instantly an anti-fan. I don't care if they do interviews and express whatever opinions they have. I'm 100% fine with that. But taking a knee, sitting, turning their back or in any way disrespecting the flag is insulting to me and to the country they are privileged to live and work in. This kinda protest is inappropriate. If this team officially takes the position endorsing this behavior I will officially end my Colts fanhood....and...if that happens, I see no way to attach my real feeling toward another team...so that would end me and the NFL. I really don't care to put it to a vote and if Robert Mathis, my favorite player in Indy, tried to talk me out of it...he be wasting his time. This is not a political thing...its an unforgivable act of disrespect to millions of Americans...not just those who are alive but mostly those who put their lives at risk so posterity could continue to live free. I believe we benefit from observing symbols like the flag. Theseazzholes have to understand this. Important point: I was born and raised in the deep south. As a kid I used to draw the confederate flag, like other kids I knew did. It wasn't until I was in college that I first understood that that flag was viewed by some as a racist symbol. After seeing film of KKK members tote'n it at their rallies, I certainly understood how a symbol of regional pride for me was a symbol of racism for many others. Therefore, I never flew that flag on my car antenna or never displayed it in any way because I thought it would be disrespectful. These same protesters today aren't dealing with the confusion I experienced as a kid. The American flag doesn't represent bad cops who are out to gun down minorities, I'd protest those people too. In fact, I have known several cops I would protest. There are jerks in every field of work. Disrespecting the American flag speaks of ignorance and a total lack of appreciation. I just wanna know who this player is.....or players. |
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IndyColt45
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Oct 2 2017, 11:44 AM Post #91 |
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MVP
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Vegas law enforcement just said that it did not have any connection to terrorism at this time. |
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| isamuelson | Oct 2 2017, 12:06 PM Post #92 |
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Yeah, and how long have they been investigating it? That statement came out way too fast. Normally, these announcements take weeks. They just started investigating it. Yet, ISIS is claiming he converted to Islam months ago. I'm not saying the police and FBI are lying, but those announcements were WAY too quick. Just look at how many of these cells were here in the US before they even knew about it? http://time.com/4389947/fbi-national-security/ This tells you all about it how the new policies in place do not allow them to effectively track individuals anymore that are of interest. There's too much going on that they are getting swamped. So I can't believe they already determined this person was not a part of ISIS. That is the entire premise of their terror cells. To hide in plain site and we would never suspect them. How many of the attacks last year occurred and it was only weeks later that the FBI informs us that they were part of a terror cell? Sorry, but I'm taking what they are saying right now about this individual with a grain of salt. |
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IndyColt45
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Oct 2 2017, 12:18 PM Post #93 |
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MVP
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Believe me, I'm not a "believe it because the government said so" kind of guy by any means. The "at this time" was put there on purpose. Could turn out that he was a part of ISIS, but it's just as equally probable that iSIS is just using this as a promotion bump. |
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| isamuelson | Oct 2 2017, 12:20 PM Post #94 |
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Agreed. I'm going to go ahead and let it all play out. Just hope they get to the bottom of it soon. UPDATE: Now apparently they found ANTIFA literature and photos taken in the Middle East of a woman linked to him, per an FBI source. And he didn't commit suicide. He was taken out by an FBI team after he opened fire on them. Still hasn't been confirmed but more and more is coming out. Edited by isamuelson, Oct 2 2017, 02:19 PM.
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| CanadianColtsFan | Oct 3 2017, 07:25 PM Post #95 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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https://twitter.com/jaboukie/status/914901730684395520 How is a blantant act of terror not terrorism? Ok, I'll stop stirring the pot now. |
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IndyColt45
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Oct 3 2017, 10:29 PM Post #96 |
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MVP
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Sorry. They did specifically say "foreign" terrorist groups. Point taken. My mistake. |
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| Weatherman | Oct 5 2017, 01:00 AM Post #97 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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It is the gun toting, Bible thumping, American military veterans, Trump supporting American patriots who are currently boycotting the NFL because of their anti-American activities. There are no snowflakes on that side of the issue. If you are capable of placing the importance of the NFL over America, well good for you. Some of us have integrity that doesn't allow that to occur. Who ever said this was a black or white issue? It is an American issue and for you to bring "white people" into it just shows how intolerant and racist you are. You are the problem, not the solution. Edited by Weatherman, Oct 5 2017, 01:04 AM.
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IndyColt45
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Oct 5 2017, 12:26 PM Post #98 |
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Are you not watching the NFL, Weatherman? |
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 5 2017, 04:26 PM Post #99 |
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I'd like to ask folks to check out the comments made by the twitter folks in the link CCFan provided....and think about the comments, and the character of the folks making said comments. It would be shocking....except that it isn't. |
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| CanadianColtsFan | Oct 5 2017, 06:01 PM Post #100 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Breaking news, random people on twitter are stupid. More at 11. |
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 6 2017, 06:36 PM Post #101 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I agree; having said that, the comments - joking about mass murder - I think they go beyond stupid. People are to some degree enjoying joke-sharing because a bunch of innocent people were targeted and killed. It's disappointing to say the least, but, again, I am used to it. |
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IndyColt45
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Oct 7 2017, 10:14 PM Post #102 |
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I think people are making jokes because they know there's nothing they can do about it. So the options are whine and complain about it or joke about it. They're choosing the latter. |
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 8 2017, 11:41 AM Post #103 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Even if the excuse you are providing on behalf of those folks is accurate - don't you think that it is....wrong? It's one thing for people involved in traumatic experiences to joke as a way to deal with things; I think it is another for twitterites to use an incident as an opportunity to joke, particularly because of their political opinions/stances, as many of the "jokes" infer. Whatever, it doesn't bug me - it is just another example of the absurdity and ignorance commonplace today, particularly in social media/online. I think people that do that are kind of...losers (when the comments surround tragic events), although I recognize that most people still manage to behave different when not commenting in social media. Social media has made everyone an expert on everything. Fact is: most people, as was the case prior to social media, know very little about most everything. But it is really easy to join mob mentality in an online forum; it is also a great way to feel really smart and superior about ones' self, while avoiding, for the most part, any accountability/responsibility for ones' words. |
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| CanadianColtsFan | Oct 8 2017, 03:59 PM Post #104 |
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https://twitter.com/TheDweck/status/917103351149428736 |
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 9 2017, 10:50 AM Post #105 |
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Was there a point to that, or just posted for fun? |
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| CanadianColtsFan | Oct 9 2017, 02:24 PM Post #106 |
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Pence and Trump are buffoons. Projecting something on to these players that they've spoken out against time and time again to try and demonize them is what racism is. The players say it's about police brutality and systemic racism. (I get it, you don't think this exists). The people who don't want this to be the topic of conversation turn it into a protest against the flag and the military. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Edited by CanadianColtsFan, Oct 9 2017, 02:52 PM.
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 9 2017, 03:07 PM Post #107 |
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Well, the folks of Pence's home state may have a different opinion than you regarding his buffoonery, and your obsession with Trump is apparent. But it is you, not Pence, once again making the anthem situation about race. There are many, many people of all colours who are with Pence on this. But you choose to ignore them as you choose to join the ranks of Jaboukie et al. You are so caught up in this racist society...can you give, I dunno, 3 examples of blatant racism you have witnessed, personally, in your life. If it is this bad - with blacks being targeted by police, by banks (as you suggested), by landlords (as you suggested), by everything- surely you have witnessed this. The topic is changing and changing, but it seems to come back to systemic racism being at fault for everything with you. Still waiting for links to reference materials from your earlier post on all the evils of our North American (primarily US I believe you are saying) society. To clarify: do I think police brutality exists? Of course...and it exists regardless of colour. When it occurs, today, in 2017, it is investigated and if evidence exists, people are held accountable. Huge cash settlements are paid out. When claims are proven false - and this is occurring more and more - there is generally no accountability, and little press coverage. If this is where you want to go (Trump), please continue your personal opinion column rants in the Trump thread you started, on your own, for whatever your reasons, at this football site. That will make it easier to avoid, even though I would love to hear your objective analysis with respect to Trump being racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, etc etc as you have posted. With zero thought behind, say, alternative (read: legitimate) reasons for improving border security in the southern US and improving operational immigration activities and oversight, along with the travel "ban." Question: do you post anywhere any comments, positive or negative, regarding Canadian politics and/or our Prime Minister? I think I know the answer. |
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IndyColt45
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Oct 9 2017, 03:35 PM Post #108 |
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I'm going to spit in your eye. I'm going to tell you that I'm spitting in your eye because of police brutality, and has nothing to do with you. Are you not allowed to be upset that I spit in your eye because I said it has nothing to do with you? The better question is why do the players continue to make this protest in this fashion, even after lots of people have stood up and said that it is upsetting to them, even if for an unrelated reason? If the flag has nothing to do with it, why be so staunch in making your point during this time? Edited by IndyColt45, Oct 9 2017, 03:36 PM.
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| CanadianColtsFan | Oct 9 2017, 04:51 PM Post #109 |
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Well, they aren't going to make the protest during the game I assume. After the game, nobody is watching. Also, what these players are doing has no effect on you. It isn't like spitting in my eye. A better analogy would be a protest that is blocking the street that makes you late for something. I know they are not intentionally targeting me. I would probably not appreciate the protest very much. I wouldn't let it bother me the way some people let this bother them. Actually, now that I think about it even that isn't a good comparison. At least that protest had an effect on me by making me late. These players kneeling has absolutely no effect on anything in your life. http://www.demos.org/blog/9/5/14/top-10-white-families-own-almost-everything I suppose it is possible that whites just work far harder than any other race and have been rewarded accordingly. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/05/african-americans-with-college-degrees-are-twice-as-likely-to-be-unemployed-as-other-graduates/430971/ http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 I suppose it is possible that blacks degrees aren't worth quite as much so they are less qualified. And again, possible blacks are twice as lazy so are twice as likely to be unemployed. Hell, maybe the fact that resumes with black sounding names receiving 50% less callbacks was a fluke. https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/03/21/292456211/black-preschoolers-far-more-likely-to-be-suspended It is possible that black kids are 3x more likely to be suspended for similar infractions than whites for some other reason we don't know about. It is possible that issue with black kids are more likely to be referred to the police than whites by sheer chance. It is also possible that black kids are just unlucky that they are 18x more likely to be tried as an adult than a white kid. http://sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Race-and-Justice-Shadow-Report-ICCPR.pdf When controls for all variables but race were put in (severity of offence, criminal history, income/wealth etc.) Blacks received 5.5 months longer on average as a sentence than a white person with similar backgrounds and similar crime committed. 77% of people executed since 1976 killed a white person. Only 13% killed a black person. White people make up 50% of murder victims each year, not 77%. The study found that nationwide black, white and hispanics were stopped in traffic at roughly the same rates. Black were 3 times more likely to be searched and twice as likely to face a threat of violence from police. In certain locales the disparity is much much greater. It is possible that New York's "stop and frisk" policy involves stopping and frisking black people 52% of the time and white people 9% of the time. It is possible that the excuse of minorities being in "high crime areas" is often used, but even when the areas were divided by crime rate, blacks were still stopped far more often in "low" crime areas, but the excuse of high crime areas was still used. So even in a low crime area, if too many blacks are around it may as well be a high crime area I guess. As for the Canadian thing, I don't disagree as strongly with most political issues/policies in Canada as I do with the US, obviously. The systemic racism against Aboriginals in Canada is probably a much worse issue than Blacks in the US to be honest. If someone wants to make a thread talking about Canadian politics we can I guess. Nobody has done so yet. I think it is safe to say Canadian politics generate a largely apathetic response from a lot of Canadians. I don't think the issues are quite as divisive as in American politics. Anyway, I await your response about how all these government/educational/scientific journal/data based studies are left-wing nonsense. And you also made it clear that my opinions are no longer wanted here, so I'll bow out of the discussion. Safe to say we disagree about as fundamentally as two people possibly can. Edited by CanadianColtsFan, Oct 9 2017, 06:27 PM.
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 10 2017, 07:32 AM Post #110 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I will get around to each and every one of your scientific studies and your scientific conclusion: that the results of every one of them is because, somehow, some way black people are being oppressed and abused by the system - they aren't being allowed to seek gainful employment, they aren't allowed to go to or graduate from school, they are purposefully sentenced to longer prison terms due to being black, etcetera etcetera. One qwuestion to ponder: with all of this blatant racism going on, why have most people not witnessed more than 1 or 2 - if any - blatantly racist events in their day to day lives? If it was responsible for all of this, it would surely be evident in day to day life within this most evil of societies. Actually, I am interested in your opinions, because I cringe at what is being taught in our education system today, and in the apathy of Canadians when it comes to our own politics. The systemic racism you bring up again with respect to our native Canadians, another example which is front and centre. How easy it is to scoff at others while ignoring what is occurring within your own backyard - I like it - let's start a thread on Trudeau and Canadian politics, and let our American friends be quick to pass judgement. For now, here is one video clip with some statistical evidence that tends to contradict your belief, that racism is ever-present and responsible for everything, when it comes to blacks and America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRb9x-RieI I will read every one of your links when i get time, thks. |
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| MrCCCs | Oct 10 2017, 01:42 PM Post #111 |
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I don't think anyone is arguing the 'systemic' part. The black culture has systemic poverty, systemic broken families, systemic violence and illegal behavior, systemic educational woes, etc. I'm not convinced that the majority of causes for these systemic problems continues to be found outside of black culture. Continuing to blame others has led to an entitlement culture and has been ineffective in producing results for solving the crisis in black culture. Therefore, blaming our nation seems to me to be counter-productive to real solutions. Please understand that I'm not laying blame solely on black culture. God knows there have been battles that have been won and, unfortunately, continue to be fought for overcoming the idiocy of racism. I just find it frustrating to watch demonstrations and protests that were both specific in their goals and needed 70 years ago become a distraction today that threatens to overshadow the progress that has been made. I new strategy is needed, where racism is treated with the contempt it deserves, and society makes it a non-issue rather than a false idol. |
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| Xavier Von Voorhees | Oct 10 2017, 07:43 PM Post #112 |
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Here we go – if you can read thru all of this, I applaud you. If you truly care, you may find it worthwhile. Again, I’ll go one at a time, so….. Point 1. You linked to this, and commented: http://www.demos.org/blog/9/5/14/top-10-white-families-own-almost-everything I suppose it is possible that whites just work far harder than any other race and have been rewarded accordingly. Great – first, look at the source : DEMOS. Demos is a US based think tank, research and policy center founded in 2000 that presents a LIBERAL viewpoint on economic issues and their objective of economic racial equality. I prefer more nonpartisan sources myself, or libertarian sources, say think tanks like The Cato Institute or the Brookings Institute (even though the Brookings Institute is categorized by many as left-leaning). That, along with straight hard data sources themselves. So - there is bias (there is that word) in how the data utilized here is presented. But even more evident is your bias from failing to read the actual headline and digest it - let’s simply break down the data further which you provided... again, from a liberal think tank. What the data actually states is that 75% (almost everything) of the wealth is owned by a mere 10 % of whites….so the overwhelming majority of whites aren’t actually sharing in this cash- cow, so that should change the perspective significantly. As common sense and observation supports, most white folks are not sharing in all of this wealth either. Also of note – there is no mention of wealth and Asian Americans…because that would show them to be the best off, from a racial perspective. This, of course, would not support many of the talking points with respect to the whole racism, white privilege angle. Median household income: Asians top list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income Wikipedia, which I tend not to use, at least lists its references. Good thing about Wikipedia; you can dig deeper. Across the board – income, education, and employment – Asians top the list. Why is that…why are whites allowing it, if there is this white privilege – or does the (white) system just oppress blacks? But back to the DEMOS link you provided - This excerpt, from the end of that article, is still lacking, but provides a much more significant and accurate picture. From your reference material: The top 10% of white families own 72.3% of all white wealth. The bottom half of white families own 2.2% of all white wealth. The remaining white families (those in the 50th to 90th percentiles) own the remaining 25.5% of white wealth. This means that the top 10% of white families own 65.1% of all the wealth in the nation. The bottom half of white families own just 2% of the national wealth. And the white families in the 50th-90th percentile of white families own 22.9% of the national wealth. All white families have more wealth than their non-white counterparts, but it is really the upper half of whites—and especially the top 10% of whites—who own nearly everything. But not so fast – are all whites, in general, so much more well off, CCFan? Let’s look at some hard data, courtesy of the US Government – Poverty Statistics. No bias, no slant. http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html In a nutshell: Proof that this allegation of “widespread white wealth” is a myth; the wealthy are wealthy; the poor are poor. More whites are actually below the poverty line than blacks – of course, this makes sense, as the demographic indicates. But if there was some sort of collusion to make whites wealthy, it does not jibe. THE FIRST MAJOR INDICATOR OF WHAT IS A LEGITIMATE FACTOR: the statistics regarding single moms, regardless of race. There is a lot of data to digest, but for a hilite: Overall 9.8% of the families in America are in poverty. Families headed by a single female have a Poverty Rate of 26.6% - over five times higher than married couple families. There are 15.6 million families headed by a single mother which represent 19% of all families in America. But 4.1 million of these single mom families are in poverty which account for an astounding 51% of all the families in poverty. These statistics are the basis for the conclusion that marriage is one of the best defenses against poverty. So - you cannot blame systemic racism for single parent families…but it is a huge factor in economic wellbeing. Single white mothers are much worse off, economically, than black 2-parent households. Lots of statistics available; no disputing the raw data. So if there is systemic racism involved in wealth dispersal…why are single white mothers excluded from these benefits? Here is a start: https://singlemotherguide.com/single-mother-statistics/ Now back to the US Government Poverty Statistics link http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html To continue to look for actual causal factors – perhaps the most relevant information: ONLY 2% of population are living in poverty provided they have these 3 attributes (or,98% of people avoid poverty if they): 1. Complete HS or higher education; 2. Work fulltime; 3. Wait until they are married and are 21 years of age or more to have a baby. Simple equation., regardless of race. “Young people can virtually assure that they and their families will avoid poverty if they follow three elementary rules for success – complete at least a high school education, work full time, and wait until age 21 and get married before having a baby. Based on an analysis of Census data, people who followed all three of these rules had only a 2 percent chance of being in poverty and a 72 percent chance of joining the middle class (defined as above $55,000 in 2010.” Ron Haskins of the Brookings Institution, testifying before Congress on June 5, 2012 Finally, here is an article with tons of pertinent information. Of course, it is about economics, written by think tank folk – meaning, it is not light reading and the typoe of stuff which most folks do not read. Of course, it is stuff which should be read and taught in institutions of higher learning. From the Cato Institute, which is relatively nonpartisan (unlike DEMOS). https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/five-myths-about-economic-inequality-america#full So, if you can sift thru this with an open, objective mind, perhaps you may reconsider your opinion – that systemic racism has led and continues to feed this unequal distribution of wealth. I have laid out the data indicating most whites do not share in this unequal distribution and I have given some references to data pointing out one primary causal factor – single parent families. I linked to 2 other primary causal factors, which I believe you suggested were again all about racist systems and oppression. I’ll get to those. In the meantime, enjoy some reading, and thanks for the DEMOS link, which again stated that 10% of whites shared in (most - and note by article's end I think it drops to 65%) of the wealth – but you somehow read that and made the leap that whites in general were beneficiaries of this wealth distribution. Pause and consider – are you a victim of being led to believe this so much that you overlooked the actual headline. Having said that, you did mention one thing – regarding hard work – that does play into the current status – culture. That is another thing I will touch on at the appropriate time based on your points put forward. If you read all of this, and the links…tip of the cap to you. Most people prefer to blare their opinions at the top of their lungs, but have little interest in actual research, particularly if something goes against their beliefs. To sum up this first counterpoint, here is a link to Ben Shapiro touching on many points. He is a conservative, and many find him annoying…but he draws on hard data in many points in this link. Like him or dislike him, his points are generally valid and based in facts and empirical evidence, not in emotion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxDO7_C8gy0 Edited by Xavier Von Voorhees, Oct 10 2017, 08:02 PM.
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IndyColt45



4:19 AM Jul 11