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Book of Shadows - Spoiler Discussion; Pour out your very soul in this thread as you experience the horrors of Heavenly Host once again.
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Topic Started: June 10, 2014, 3:25 pm (11,698 Views)
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bigboom
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July 26, 2014, 7:52 pm
Post #171
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Shredder
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- nintendocat
- July 26, 2014, 7:47 pm
Spoiler for ending Spoiler: click to toggle I just can't stop thinking about Ayumi's state in the ending. I know that Yoshiki will have to take care of her but is there anything there at all? Can she move on her own? Are you bodily functions still in working or would she have to have medical equipment assistance? Is she aware of anything? For example, when Yoshiki is talking to her at the beginning of Dead Patient can she actually understand him or is basically just talking to the air? I kinda wish that she'll be able to function a little bit, able to move her head towards sound or movement, perhaps able to move her hands a bit but who knows. I've seen people saying that they're boyfriend and girlfriend but he's still calling her Shinozaki in Dead Patient so we know that he at the very least doesn't feel that they're at a point where a first name basis is acceptable.
I also get really sad when I think about how hard it's going to be for Yoshiki in this situation. Yes, Ayumi's in this state and he never really got to know how she feels about him but there's more to it than that. There's so much work that goes into taking care of someone like this. They need to have someone taking care of their pretty much all the time so unless he has someone come in to help he'd have to find some way to work from home. Not to mention that he's 17. Before this he was barely making it on his own affording a cheap apartment with the pay from his part-time job. Say that he quits school, (which already is sad because his whole reason for falling for Ayumi in the first place was because of the speech she gave him about finishing high school no matter what) he'd still have to find someway to support both of them and care for her. Could you imagine that suddenly being thrown upon you? And he has no one to fall back to help him. We see in Dead Patient that he apparently is successful but the thought of how much he would've had to struggle to get to that point is tear jerking. I suppose there's the possibility that they're living at a nursing home or rehabilitation clinic and that he's getting help from there but that situation would cost money too.
And all the time, even though he's having to do so much and so much is riding on his shoulders, he'd be thinking about Ayumi's feelings the whole time, how much she's suffering and whether or not she's happy because that's how he is. Ayumi felt responsible for everything that's happened throughout the series because her family was the cause of it and made the choice to sacrifice herself to save the others but Yoshiki wasn't at all connected to what happened. He just gave everything because the thought of forgetting her was a far worse scenario to him. The scale of sacrifice Yoshiki made in this ending, is there any possible doubt why he's so many people's favorite?
I know I'm overthinking things but that's how you know when a story is good, right? When it touches you this deeply and makes you think this much?
Spoiler: click to toggle I'm not 100% sure of what happens in the end. Does she get paralyzed (by spinal cord injury) or is it something supernatural?
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“Racism is still alive, yellow tapes and colored lines"-Kendrick Lamar
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Skybird
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July 26, 2014, 8:05 pm
Post #172
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Grindblues
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- nintendocat
- July 26, 2014, 7:47 pm
Spoiler for ending Spoiler: click to toggle I just can't stop thinking about Ayumi's state in the ending. I know that Yoshiki will have to take care of her but is there anything there at all? Can she move on her own? Are you bodily functions still in working or would she have to have medical equipment assistance? Is she aware of anything? For example, when Yoshiki is talking to her at the beginning of Dead Patient can she actually understand him or is basically just talking to the air? I kinda wish that she'll be able to function a little bit, able to move her head towards sound or movement, perhaps able to move her hands a bit but who knows. I've seen people saying that they're boyfriend and girlfriend but he's still calling her Shinozaki in Dead Patient so we know that he at the very least doesn't feel that they're at a point where a first name basis is acceptable.
I also get really sad when I think about how hard it's going to be for Yoshiki in this situation. Yes, Ayumi's in this state and he never really got to know how she feels about him but there's more to it than that. There's so much work that goes into taking care of someone like this. They need to have someone taking care of their pretty much all the time so unless he has someone come in to help he'd have to find some way to work from home. Not to mention that he's 17. Before this he was barely making it on his own affording a cheap apartment with the pay from his part-time job. Say that he quits school, (which already is sad because his whole reason for falling for Ayumi in the first place was because of the speech she gave him about finishing high school no matter what) he'd still have to find someway to support both of them and care for her. Could you imagine that suddenly being thrown upon you? And he has no one to fall back to help him. We see in Dead Patient that he apparently is successful but the thought of how much he would've had to struggle to get to that point is tear jerking. I suppose there's the possibility that they're living at a nursing home or rehabilitation clinic and that he's getting help from there but that situation would cost money too.
And all the time, even though he's having to do so much and so much is riding on his shoulders, he'd be thinking about Ayumi's feelings the whole time, how much she's suffering and whether or not she's happy because that's how he is. Ayumi felt responsible for everything that's happened throughout the series because her family was the cause of it and made the choice to sacrifice herself to save the others but Yoshiki wasn't at all connected to what happened. He just gave everything because the thought of forgetting her was a far worse scenario to him. The scale of sacrifice Yoshiki made in this ending, is there any possible doubt why he's so many people's favorite?
I know I'm overthinking things but that's how you know when a story is good, right? When it touches you this deeply and makes you think this much?
Ending Spoilers, probably... Ayumi is probably unable to do anything on her own anymore. She does mumble stuff about "protect"and stuff, which makes it hurt more, since even in that state, she's still somehow thinking of protecting everyone. In the intro of Dead Patient, she was described as like a plant taking in sunlight, so I take it that she's alive, but like a plant, does nothing without others. I get the feeling Yoshiki was talking to her, but knows she won't respond. There are other medias that show that kind of things... I don't really feel Yoshiki will be able to call her in first-name terms seeing as they actually can't bond in her state. Sadly, but most probably, he has sacrificed his education, and time, to help Shinozaki. In a sense, they're both carrying heavy burdens. Yoshiki handles the burden that Shinozaki gives him through having to take care of everything for her. Shinozaki, on the other hand, carries the burden of her family and the burden of making everything right. So, Shinozaki took the burdens of the past and Yoshiki of the present and future with her.The bright side about Yoshiki is that if he somehow gets the time, it is possible to rebuild his life, which is currently not the case for Shinozaki, who's pretty much a dead person living in an alive body. Dead Patient may answer our wonders, and I'm hoping we hear from GrindHouse soon since BD is now done. 
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[ - Gran is the real deal. - ]
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GeoffBruedly
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July 26, 2014, 9:10 pm
Post #173
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Bones
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Spoiler: click to toggle We do know that Naomi eventually ends up being a nurse, so there is the possibility that she will interact with Yoshiki and Ayumi in some capacity. Hopefully by extension, they will also interact with Satoshi and Yuka.
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bigboom
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July 26, 2014, 9:35 pm
Post #174
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Shredder
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- nintendocat
- July 26, 2014, 7:47 pm
Spoiler for ending Spoiler: click to toggle I just can't stop thinking about Ayumi's state in the ending. I know that Yoshiki will have to take care of her but is there anything there at all? Can she move on her own? Are you bodily functions still in working or would she have to have medical equipment assistance? Is she aware of anything? For example, when Yoshiki is talking to her at the beginning of Dead Patient can she actually understand him or is basically just talking to the air? I kinda wish that she'll be able to function a little bit, able to move her head towards sound or movement, perhaps able to move her hands a bit but who knows. I've seen people saying that they're boyfriend and girlfriend but he's still calling her Shinozaki in Dead Patient so we know that he at the very least doesn't feel that they're at a point where a first name basis is acceptable.
I also get really sad when I think about how hard it's going to be for Yoshiki in this situation. Yes, Ayumi's in this state and he never really got to know how she feels about him but there's more to it than that. There's so much work that goes into taking care of someone like this. They need to have someone taking care of their pretty much all the time so unless he has someone come in to help he'd have to find some way to work from home. Not to mention that he's 17. Before this he was barely making it on his own affording a cheap apartment with the pay from his part-time job. Say that he quits school, (which already is sad because his whole reason for falling for Ayumi in the first place was because of the speech she gave him about finishing high school no matter what) he'd still have to find someway to support both of them and care for her. Could you imagine that suddenly being thrown upon you? And he has no one to fall back to help him. We see in Dead Patient that he apparently is successful but the thought of how much he would've had to struggle to get to that point is tear jerking. I suppose there's the possibility that they're living at a nursing home or rehabilitation clinic and that he's getting help from there but that situation would cost money too.
And all the time, even though he's having to do so much and so much is riding on his shoulders, he'd be thinking about Ayumi's feelings the whole time, how much she's suffering and whether or not she's happy because that's how he is. Ayumi felt responsible for everything that's happened throughout the series because her family was the cause of it and made the choice to sacrifice herself to save the others but Yoshiki wasn't at all connected to what happened. He just gave everything because the thought of forgetting her was a far worse scenario to him. The scale of sacrifice Yoshiki made in this ending, is there any possible doubt why he's so many people's favorite?
I know I'm overthinking things but that's how you know when a story is good, right? When it touches you this deeply and makes you think this much? I put some personal connections to Corpse Party in this. Be warned hahahaha. ;p
Spoiler: click to toggle also, I understand. Though i have not seen the ending YET, I can imagine from what I've heard, what it must be like. First of all, it's ridiuclous how much all of us can tell how much Yoshiki loves Ayumi and she doesn't really seem to reciprocate this the way she should. It's plain out cruel that she is reduced to a state where she can't even communicate with Yoshiki. Almost as cruel as people being erased when dying in HHE before the events of BloodDrive. I guess we just have to hope that some sort of medical miracle could happen in Dead Patient for her. I mean theoretically, if the BoS has all of these amazing powers it should be able to help cure Ayumi. The question is, what would the sacrifice of the person attempting to cure her be? I can't forsee them not continuing their story now that I think of it. To me this looks like it's character building for Yoshiki even further. I think they will be mentioned frequently throughout Dead Patient.
With regards to school. I think Yoshiki probably dropped out of school. Even though it was Ayumi who stopped him from probably going to jail for assault let alone throwing away his life by getting expelled, and even though she would want him to finish his education, there's no possible way for him to as he has nobody to help look after her. I would be very surprised if he didn't try to contact Satoshi and Naomi and try to convince them about their past friendship and all that went down. Whether he could succeed after being erased from memory, I don't know. There's probably a chance of it. Being erased from everybody's isn't as big of a deal for Yoshiki anyway as he pretty much only had his friends anyway. That is a little happy I suppose, even though it is also still quite sad.
I'm making the following part very truthful, you guys are all good people so I feel like I can share this. Here's a personal story relating to your last sentence. I have never been the type of person to show my emotions, I always try to bottle it up. If something bad or sad happens to me I try to act like I don't care even if it's eating me up inside. I know it's not advised to deal with shit this way, but it's just how I cope. I remember one of the last times I cried. It was probably when I was around 7 and my Grandmother passed away. She was my mom's adopted mother so she wasn't blood related. I remember my father mocking me about crying about somebody who barely counted as family. Every time after that in a situation where one would cry, I acted as if nothing happened. Maybe I can surpress emotion so easily because I'm not super close with my family, I don't know. Regardless of the "Nothing bothers me" bravado attitutde I still always show as much compassion as I possibly can towards those who are in pain etc. Here's where it's going to sound cheezy, but honestly it's all true. I remember when I first heard about Corpse Party. I've been subbed to Pewdiepie ever since he was starting youtube. I was in the top 1000. So every day I'd come home from school or wherever, looking forward to his videos. One day I had a shit day at school, bad test, a girl I liked was super upset about her problems, friend was exceedingly angry at me for a stupid reason, mother was sick with pneumonia and I had to take care of my sister, my Dad finally grew some balls and told me that he didn't love me and told me he only wanted to see me when he had to. I'd just had a shit day, I went skate boarding with a few friends hoping to blow it off, but it didn't help and I was mad and sad. So here's some more backstory. When pewds uploaded Ao Oni, it was the first RPG Horror I'd ever seen. I instantly fell in love with that type of horror as I knew that they were story driven. So he played other ones like Ib, Mad Father etc. So I got home and saw Corpse Party. I honestly had no clue what it was so I opened the video and started watching. I noticed it was RPG horror like and I remember thinking that it was a super coincidence that my favourite type of game was on his channel on one of the shittiest days I'd ever had. So when you see Ayumi telling the story about HHE and all of the character's reactioned I immediately noticed how human-like these characters were. I was super attached to them all right there.
At this point I had switched to Cry's playthrough because Pewds was uploading too slowly for my tastes. Anyway fast forward to the first death that we see. Seiko. At the time I was thinking "What the fuck". It was a shock for me. She had been in a four way tie with Naomi, Ayumi and Yoshiki as my favourite characters. I'll describe more about this later. So anyway next up when you see Mayu die, i didn't think much of it at the time. She hadn't had her character developed much, all we knew was that she was transferring and leaving all her friends. Seeing Ayumi so upset was a bit upsetting but other than that I was like big deal. I can't remember the exact order but I think you see the thing with Mayu and Shige in the hall where she comforts him. I almost lost it there, especically because you can tell how close him and Mayu are. That was heart-wrenching. So the game continues and then I think we see the scene where Yoshiki is smoking (what I'm assuming is weed). Anyway as you all know, Ayumi comes to rescue him after the teacher is harrassing him. She basically turns his life around. This hit very close to home with me. I've been a pretty good kid, I try to be polite but I've always been sort of rebellious, and stronger on my own, though I do like the company of others. This is why I consider myself to be similar to Yoshiki. Anyway, this is pretty unbelievable but a similar thing actually happened to me. I do use marijuana sometimes but that doesn't really relate to what happened to me. Anyway so I had this teacher this past year in grade 11. (Oddly same year, i think as the Kisargis, same age anyway). Anywho, he was an asshole. He would pick on me in front of the class when I shared my beliefs and opinions on certain topics (world religion class) and he would sometimes privately tell me that I didn't know shit and was worthless. He did not want me in that class. To be fair there were a lot of shit disturbers in there ( I was not one of them) and they always got on his nerves. I often disagreed with him and he'd take his anger out on me I guess. Anywaym one day I'd had enough and was ready to tell him to fuck off and call him everything in my vocabulary. The girl I mentioned earlier when I was describing how I found corpse party, must have noticed the anger on my face and glared at me and I took at as a look of "don't say anything". After when I asked her about it she said that she did it because it'd be stupid to get myself possibly expelled, at least suspended for this teacher's sake. (My school is pretty strict on respect). Anyway it's not the same magnitude at all as what happened between Yoshiki and Ayumi, but I figured there were similarities between both incidents. So when I saw this I connected deeply with both characters since it was relatable to something that had actually happened in my life. Then Shige died and at the time it didn't bother me too much. I knew that he was in pain over Mayu and I thought that maybe they could be together in HHE. Thinking about them later I realized just how tragic it was and that even though we don't know a huge amount about them, i still felt connected to them. So Yui's death didn't bother me at all, I saw that as a noble sacrifice for her students. she did what had to be done.
Then we get to the scene where Naomi, Satoshi and Yuka are hiding under the table in the "Death room". Now I haven't elaborated much about Naomi and why i like her so much. I think it was her perserverence and her determination. After her best friend, person she loved most and the person that she trusted above everybody else was taken fom her, she was able to pick herself back up and help satoshi search for Yuka. I admired this very much. Even though you can tell that she gets close to breaking several times before the scene in the "Death Room", she manages to keep composure. This takes real effort and strength. I also really admire the relationship she and Seiko shared. Anyway when Yoshikazu drops Seiko's body next to Naomi and cuts out her tongue, the blow of Seiko's death hit me full force. Naomi snapped at this point and lost all reason to live. I remember that scene left me speechless, I remember thinking " No Naomi, not you too." Fast forwarding again when Naomi found out that she killed Seiko, I was nearly yelling at my computer. It was a lot to take in. So the 5 escape and I was so relieved. So happy that Yoshiki, Ayumi and naomi survived. Happy that Satoshi was able to return with Yuka. That was shortlived as you know that the rest of them are dead. Then that cutscene where Naomi tells Satoshi about how Seiko kept her alive with the texts and then asks Satoshi if Seiko was real came. I lost it. First time I cried in 10 years. I'm sad write now writing this. then the class photo pops up which is just plain cruel. Made me cry more.
So what was the point of this personal story? I just wanted to share how breathtaking it was for me to get so attached to these characters. As you say the story is absolutely amazing. I've extensively though about every aspect of the story. My point here is Grindhouse deserves a fucking medal. They made me care soo much for their creation and was able to have me so paralyzed with fear for their lives at every turn, and they were able to make me cry for one of them. They are absolutely amazing writers.
In the end with how BloodDrive turned out, i'm that the spirits inside HHE are remembered. Obviously what happened to Yoshiki and Ayumi is heartbreaking, none of them deserve what they got. Just like nintendocat, I've now been thinking about how hard their life will be and how cruel their fate is. Yoshiki is just such an admirable character. Though many may not like Ayumi i personally enjoy her since she reminds me so much of the person who saved my ass, just like how she saved broshiki's. It is really hard to put in to words how well the story is written. I've never been so captivated by one in my life.
So that's basically my thoughts on the ending, reasoning for why my favourite characters are my favourite, why I love corpse party so much and some of my predictions all summed up in one convienient but wall of text post. Enjoy, try not to bash me too much for being sentimental :p Also I just want to say that I really was being 100% truthful in that personal part of my life. even though it sounds weird that the scenario between Yoshiki and Ayumi also happend in a similar manner to me it is true. When I saw that scene I wondered what the hell was happening since it was like a part of my life was being projected on a screen in front of me.
Mildly embarassing but whatever :p.
Edited by bigboom, July 26, 2014, 9:49 pm.
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“Racism is still alive, yellow tapes and colored lines"-Kendrick Lamar
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Sloth97
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July 26, 2014, 9:36 pm
Post #175
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Cursed
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So I was actually sort of right with....
Spoiler: click to toggle Seira or Zaon Shinozaki being the true antagonist. Not the host, but close enough I guess
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CaffeinatedBloodstream
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July 26, 2014, 10:06 pm
Post #176
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Cursed
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What happens to Yuka? From what I can make out..
Spoiler: click to toggle she gives up after her best friend's death/reanimation. Ayumi doesn't make it back in time to stop the reanimation or Yuka's darkening..
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Skybird
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July 26, 2014, 10:13 pm
Post #177
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Grindblues
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- CaffeinatedBloodstream
- July 26, 2014, 10:06 pm
What happens to Yuka? From what I can make out.. Spoiler: click to toggle she gives up after her best friend's death/reanimation. Ayumi doesn't make it back in time to stop the reanimation or Yuka's darkening..
About Yuka Yuka gets possessed (I think) by Sachi, but was saved by Kuon with Satoshi, Naomi, and Kishinuma. She loses consciousness after what appears to be a struggle to break free of the possession. She remains unconscious until near the end, where they already escape. She lives.
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[ - Gran is the real deal. - ]
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Iarumas
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July 26, 2014, 10:33 pm
Post #178
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The backwards samurai!
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Response to bigboom I want to thank you for sharing your story. When people go and share those sorts of things, it means a lot. Honestly, with me, a few past experiences I've have very recently actually have caused me to... "clamp up", so to say. So, when someone in the community goes and shares like this, I have to admire and respect that.
Relating this to games, you can tell a game means something when the characters are able to be related to, even mirroring to you or others around you. See, art imitates life, be it beautiful and happy or horrible and sad. To others, it all seems so remedial, but to a few, it causes such a phenomena as in your case and, for once, we don't feel so alone... and even if it hurts, for once we understand why.
So, once again, thank you so very much for sharing out and, if you ever wanna chat, shoot me a PM.
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 Escaped Heavenly Host my very first try. https://soundcloud.com/jestereir/shangri-la-music-box
Corpse Party 2: DEAD PATIENT English Patch - Coming 2015
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Netto Potter
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July 26, 2014, 11:15 pm
Post #179
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Blue Bomber
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I've finished at last the stream...
Spoiler: click to toggle Intense till the end! But the end is really sad tbh. maybe is because I get to love all the characters, and Shinozaki and Yoshiki's erasure from the memory of everyone is so depressing. I hope ther make a return in Dead Patient. I think Grindhouse will have to retcon the loss of Shinozaki's eye (maybe that's one of the things they gonna change in the rebirth of Chapter 1). Also, the first Shinozaki's appearance was amazing. She started as a common woman, then she tells her story and bam! Burned. Then she tooks Shinozaki's eye. Also, I love that she speaks in latin.
I still have to watch the exchaps 1 - 4. Also I have lot's of questions about the last two exchaps:
Spoiler: click to toggle What happened with Satsuki? Did Magali user her for her own benefit? And what happen to Magali on Exchap 8? Why was she crying?
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Mochida-kun, you're so kawaii! <3
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Skybird
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July 27, 2014, 3:07 am
Post #180
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Grindblues
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I freaking discovered something. This might give birth to many speculations/theories.
Spoilers for BD and DP Look at this image of Ayumi's eyes:  Now, look at this image.  Don't they look really similar? Aside from the much prominent colors of the first Shinozaki's eyes, hers and Ayumi's have the same pattern of a green crescent on their eyes. This could possibly be nothing, but it just looks really similar. 
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[ - Gran is the real deal. - ]
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