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Seiko Could Have Lived; What pisses me off about her death
Topic Started: October 1, 2014, 9:59 pm (3,533 Views)
nopinky
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Something that always pissed me off about Seiko's death was that she wasn't actually dead after she stopped moving. She was just unconscious. The human body blacks out after 1 minute without oxygen, and it dies after another 4. Basically, Seiko would have lived if Naomi had gotten her down. Because she didn't, Naomi is kind of responsible for Seiko's death. Possession/Darkening does't count.
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What do you guys think?
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Skybird
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We should remember though how much time may have passed between Naomi hanging Seiko, her panicked/darkened running around Heavenly Host, finding Seiko, and trying to get her out of the noose.

During Chapter 5, we see Naomi hanging Seiko and kicked the bucket keeping her from getting choked. After that, Naomi goes out and scares Taguchi. Possibly, after that, Naomi goes in a darkened/panicked state and ran around HH, as narrated by her. Looking at the manga and anime, we see that Naomi, once a bit more in control, returned back near the Infirmary before screaming for Seiko and getting to the restroom. After seeing Seiko, she panics and pulls the rope, further putting Seiko to danger. She runs out for the bucket and is too late then.

All those events most likely will take several minutes to happen and Seiko had no access to oxygen from the beginning. While maybe a medical overlook, it's not so far-fetched that she'd die immediately after Naomi fails to save her, seeing as she'd already been choked by the noose for some time.

Let's also consider the other option of ending Chapter 1, which is to keep trying to pull the noose, ending with Naomi possibly causing Seiko's neck to snap.

We never really know, but maybe what made Seiko struggle after Naomi finds her is instincts. Naomi in Book of Shadows does narrate that Seiko was only half-conscious by then and is barely hanging in there, trying to get air which was deprived since she was hanged. Additionally, Naomi calls it a "reflex", the body struggling for life when it was getting denied.

So yeah, even if Seiko somehow survived the hanging, she'd end up running away from Naomi from fear, evident from Book of Shadows. Most probably, they'd get separated again, like it happened after they split up the first time. Also, Seiko lost her scrap, so she can't get back even if she survives throughout. There's no sign of the other dead Kisaragis having their own scraps and using another scrap from another charm is not an option. (Tortured Souls.) Given Seiko's personality, she would not take someone else's scrap if they are still able to escape. Her kindness is evident all throughout the games, from BR, BoS, 2U, and BD.
Edited by Skybird, October 3, 2014, 8:08 am.
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XGame Go
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Yep, I think Skybird also have a point. Since Naomi hanged Seiko and left her for an unknown time (my guess is like 5 minutes more less). Since you said people will dies from hanging about 4 minutes later, in this case Seiko got hanged for like 5 minutes or more so she will die no matter what happened and Naomi make it worse by try to pull her body up instead Seiko can be lifted by Naomi shoulders.
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nopinky
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She was still conscious enough to apologize, IIRC. Also, the fact she was able to make any sort of noise means that at least some air would have gotten through, increasing the time she had to live. And for all we know, Seiko could have run away as an effect of the time loop.
It could just be a medical oversight as you said, but I'm still kind of annoyed Naomi didn't try to get her down after she went limp. That basically sealed her fate, imo. Darkening could be a factor in that, though.
Edited by nopinky, October 6, 2014, 9:15 pm.
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Iarumas
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There's actually solid evidence that she did in fact die, though the explanation is sort of graphic, so I am placing it behind a spoiler just in case.

Contains some graphic detail, read at your own discretion.
Edited by Iarumas, October 6, 2014, 9:53 pm.
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Diabolic
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When you and your girl weren't ready for what happened next.

Let's also not forget Naomi's state of mind at the moment. While it is true that she wishes to pursue a medical career, you also have to take into account the panic factor that Naomi must have felt at that moment in time.

I'm actually really glad the BoS chapter 1 ending was brought up, because it would be an exact testament to what I'm about to say.

Basically speaking; it's near impossible for anyone other than a professional to save someone in that situation. Professionals are trained to not panic in extreme situations like that, so that they can actually help out when needed. As someone who has gone through some of that training, (I never completed it due to still being in high school at the time), I can see why it would be normal to either freeze up or panic in a situation like that. Sure, we can speculate as to what should have been done (And like Sky said; Seiko would've just run away, anyhow), but it's another thing entirely to muster up the courage and mental stability to follow through.

Going back to Iaru's point as well, Naomi probably knew for a fact that Seiko was dead because of that very thing he mentioned. Anyone who has medical knowledge knows that when 'that' happens, it's basically game over. While there have been some cases where someone was revived after 'that' happening, they are nothing short of rare and miraculous.

But, back to my original point. Naomi, at the time, wasn't a trained professional rescue worker or Healthcare worker. If there was, in fact, a chance to save Seiko, she wouldn't have known about it. And as for leaving here there on the noose in a place like Heavenly Host, I can't really blame her. I'd have a hard time getting someone down from a noose if I had just seen them take their final breath, especially with the possibility that I could be next.
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WeirdRaptor
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What do I think, nopinky? I think I'd love to see you try to do better than Naomi.
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I simply agree with iaru, dia, sky and xgame.
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nopinky
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larumas- interesting fact! Thanks for sharing; I guess it was just a little oversight then, or just for dramatic effect. And here I was thinking I was onto something plotwise, lol.
I guess I should clarify- I do understand that she was panicking annd couldn't think straight. I would've been worried if she could.
As for what I would have done? I probably would've tried to get her down in a frantic attempt to save her.
Edited by nopinky, October 7, 2014, 8:43 pm.
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Skybird
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But then you've said the word "frantic" which is defined as "wild or distraught with fear, anxiety, or other emotion". In a state like that, which is actually similar to Naomi, it'll be hard to recall any way to save Seiko, if at all, and just end up moving by what you do without much thought.

With the situation they are in, unless they are professionals or trained, it'll probably end with Seiko's death all the same. And even if she was saved, who's to say it won't end up like Book of Shadows, where she runs and get herself killed after separating.

And another thing, even if she's got air to "choke" out an apology, note how strained and almost incoherent it is. And she is actually using it to try and speak, which makes her lose the little air she may have.
Edited by Skybird, October 7, 2014, 9:20 pm.
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