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So, for those of you who have the game; have any gripes with it?; I have... some.
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Topic Started: October 18, 2015, 2:17 pm (2,319 Views)
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DeathkaiserG
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November 17, 2015, 5:45 am
Post #21
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Faraway Black Jewel
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To be honest, i havent read Cemetery0 nor played 2U entirely... so yeah... but its kinda cool that they have connected every media of corpse party in one whole swoop....
Nah... im not really forcing you to like Kuon...i can understand that. But yeah, its just kinda feels "threatning"
Yeah, its not like i dont understand the feeling for the old characters... though lashing out in the new characters is kinda bit harsh... they aint the old characters yes... but they arent bad as you think it is...
@Zai: No Duality for Misuto? Misuto's childhood aint exactly touched... he could be a sweet child back then but because of the world friccking him up... thats why ended up that way. He is already 25 years old after all.. but i guess we're talking bout the info in the game so thats out of the question
I know that teh movie may not be exact canon but Yoshiki succesfully killed Yoshikazu in the movie ahaha... at cost of his life though
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"It is way easier to sneak past a dead person." -- Killian (Killian Experience)
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WeirdRaptor
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November 17, 2015, 2:06 pm
Post #22
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Soul Mate
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@ Zaion:
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- DoD Ayumi
I would call what you described a reactive character, while Ayumi in Blood Drive is a proactive one. Boiled down to this point, which one is better is a matter of opinion. Personally, watching someone fail over and over again yet still keep trying is something I like. I'm curious as to what specific moments set you off, although it's sounding more like everything set you off. Was it her sticking her hand down the stone wolf's throat, or was it climbing the white coil? In regards to those actions, I felt that there wasn't much else she could do in either situation. Simply put, what could she have done to not piss you off is what I'm asking, because at the moment it sounds like you just want her to stay put until someone or something throws her into Heavenly Host at random. Basically, in order to stop getting my ire, Ayumi would have to start actually using that thing between her ears we call a brain, though some of her actions really make me doubt she has any upper brain functions.
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- Yoshiki
I wasn't worried about Yoshiki at the time either. He wasn't bleeding, and although he was winded he could still talk. Plus, Ayumi was more than a little pissed at the time at him for throwing the Ever After stones under a truck. Comparing that situation to Mayu's is more than a little ridiculous, since she can see he's still got all his arms and leg, and that he's alive. She was shocked by that though, so she wasn't completely ignoring him. Yes, because all possibly fatal wounds bleed or are immediately evident.[/sarcasm] If she was a real friend, she would have made damn sure he was okay instead of leaving him to possibly die. Real friends do not leave each other in the lurch. What if Yoshiki HAD died from being slammed into that wall and then somehow Ayumi was rescued by Satoshi and Naomi, who then have the misfortune of having to tell her that Kishinuma died of blunt trauma after being found slumped against a concrete wall just outside his apartment. Imagine it. It would have been her fault for not at least calling an Ambulance for him. You say she doesn't like it when others do things for her. Well, Yoshiki lying there possibly dying was an opportunity to even the score.
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There are a few reasons as to why I feel Ayumi treats Yoshiki more than a little harshly.
1) She knows he's attracted to her, and she doesn't return those feelings in the first game and is undecided in the second 2) She's already set up as someone who's bad at showing others what she's thinking. 3) She doesn't like people helping or going out of their way for her. I am aware of this, and none of these reasons are justifiable on her behalf. She still treats him like shit for no good reason. She is old enough to sit down and have a serious talk about this instead of acting like a brat half her age.
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1) was first hinted at in Blood Covered, and then re-affirmed with Ayumi's last statement in Blood Drive. Dealing with that sort of situation is more than a little awkward, and does make saying simple things like thank you more than a little difficult. 2) Ayumi didn't tell her own mother that Hinoe had died, or that she hated herself to the point she was slitting her own wrists. For that sort of person, saying things like that is more than a little difficult. 3) This was already established in the Ex-chapter of Blood Covered, but Ayumi doesn't like it when people do things for her. They don't have to save her, it can be even as simple as an offer to keep her company. That means doing something for her isn't really a favor for her. She doesn't like it, and it's hard to thank someone for something you didn't like. 1. Not when you are still alive because of this other person. 2. Her mother is outside of the loop. 3. Thank you for confirming that she is an ungrateful bitch.
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As for why Yoshiki puts up with this (besides it being from the effects of the Curse of the Shinozaki) Ayumi is someone who is always helping other people out, and asking them if they're okay. That's the reason why she helped Yoshiki out in the bathroom, and why Yoshiki likes her. She cares about other people, which is something he stopped doing when he was wondering if he should punch Tsubota. In the Japanese, it isn't out of anger that he attacks Tsubota, but a feeling that nobody cares about him, so it doesn't matter what he does anymore. Yoshiki was a pretty self-destructive person back then, and Ayumi saved from that. That's why feels he owes her, and why he finds her attractive. Yes, but after a certain point, one feels the need to start saying She's not worth it, man to him. And she is not. Boy, she is not worth it.
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Also, it was Yoshiki, Satoshi, and Naomi who told her to stop blaming herself. In that case, she can't apologize to them because they don't want that. Sure, she can apologize for getting them mixed up in this, but the things she was tricked about were all revealed to them around the same time e.g. The Book of Shadows not being in the Nirvana, the Land of Corpse Spell being impossible, etc. If the people you need to apologize to are there when the villain is explaining how they tricked you, is there really a need to apologize at all? Yes. She should apologize for treating Kishinuma like he's nothing but a pile of crap. No, I'm not letting that one go.
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- Other character complaints
Although you did say this was a rant, saying blatantly that you didn't get what you want isn't something I can really discuss. Then don't.
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I like theorizing and problem solving. You had a problem with there not being enough exposition for the characters, and I pointed out how there were reasons they could not be implemented, and asked if you had any requests for what might have been good scenes for them. Although I did disagree with the Seiko thing, saying, "They should have done better." in regards to everything else isn't helpful to anyone at this point. Then the game should have been changed to implement it. The point is, Team GrisGris got lazy while making it. Its also obvious that they are not well-practiced with the new engine. Should have stuck with the sprites.
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This is probably more than partially my fault for even trying to deal with this, but I was curious if there was a line of logic behind the disgruntlement. My line of logic is that they jettisoned half the original main cast for no good reason and did not properly develop the ones they added in! You keep saying that I need to play 2U and read Cemetery. Well, kind of impossible since I can't read logographic kanji.
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- Seiko
That still wouldn't make it any better. Seiko's charm is her cheery nature, even in the face of hopelessness. If darkening strips her of that, then it's still the same as making her unlikable, because it means that she wasn't strong enough to give in to her base lusts. Humanity is about balancing the wants and needs of the self with the wants and needs of others. It is because Seiko gives so much to Naomi that she is a great positive force within CoPa. Hey, you were the one who said that all the CP characters were all more disturbed than they first seemed. This would be holding with that theme.
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Additionally, forced love suicides are pretty bad as well, and still entails forcing your desires onto others. When that is mixed with sex, it becomes rape. On it's own though, it is still a disgusting trait that most people do not like. So, disturbing, like most things in the series were meant to be.
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Furthermore, the only thing darkening does is make you act in an exaggerated manner. This means that any action a character does while under darkening is something they had the potential of doing without it. i.e. If a person murders someone while darkening, they already had the capacity to murder within them. Darkening is a opening up of someone, and not an addition. Then have it possible to find her sitting in a corner depressed or off in her own little world like Morishige. Say, there's an idea: Seiko really did go off into her own little Lala Land to cope with the agony and loneliness, and upon seeing Naomi again, follows around her thinking that they are in their own school again. She would be a harmless but still creepy presence. Okay, if not an antagonistic Seiko, then more of Mayu and Morishige, then, please. They were far more frightening than the generic dark spirits. Yeah, I really, really did not find the dark spirits frightening, at all. I was always more frightened of the ghosts with their own identities, like the three children, Yoshie, Yoshikazu, Sachiko, and of course Mayu in Blood Drive.
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- Mist
Reading through your comments, I think the major issue with Mist was that he has no duality. Kizami can look suave, sexy, and dependable, however, he's seriously broken on the inside. Sachiko was a innocent little girl turned murdering machine. Yoshie was a school nurse who loved children, and then became what she was in the game. Yoshikazu simply kept the triage of monstrosity going. i.e. He didn't talk. He was mysterious. He was unkillable.
Mist started as a rude character and ended as a rude character. There was no development for him, and they showed their hand too early. Well, most of his development happened off screen, so there's no helping that in anyway or form. Perhaps reading this might make things a little better. Then his development should not have happened off screen. Like I said, bad writing. You should SEE how important character develop. Show, don't tell. That is a very basic storytelling rule. In any case, I still don't like Mist and most likely never will.
@ Death:
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To be honest, i havent read Cemetery0 nor played 2U entirely... so yeah... but its kinda cool that they have connected every media of corpse party in one whole swoop.... Not really. The way things are connected in the Marvel Cinematic Universe are cool, but that's because you DON'T have to watch every single film to understand what is going on. I should NOT HAVE TO touch Cemetery or 2U to get Magari or anyone else.
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Nah... im not really forcing you to like Kuon...i can understand that. But yeah, its just kinda feels "threatning" Huh?
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Yeah, its not like i dont understand the feeling for the old characters... though lashing out in the new characters is kinda bit harsh... they aint the old characters yes... but they arent bad as you think it is... I don't hate the new characters just for being new characters. I hate how utterly underdeveloped they feel in comparison to the old ones. Blood Covered made it very easy to relate to Seiko, Miss Yui, Mayu, and Morishige, but Blood Drive utterly failed to make me even sort of like Aiko, Inumaru, Magari, Kuon, or Mist. I was actually looking forward to seeing all these characters only to be severely disappointed.
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@Zai: No Duality for Misuto? Misuto's childhood aint exactly touched... he could be a sweet child back then but because of the world friccking him up... thats why ended up that way. He is already 25 years old after all.. but i guess we're talking bout the info in the game so thats out of the question It would have been nice to SEE this, instead of just having it told. Show, don't tell. Again, very simple storytelling rule.
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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
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Zaion
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November 17, 2015, 3:19 pm
Post #23
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For the record, I haven't told you to play or watch 2U or CEMETERY since the first post where I stated that their exposition should have been self contained in Blood Drive for it to have been well written. Everything I have referred to past that point is solely contained to Blood Covered, Book of Shadows, and Blood Drive.
Since there is virtually nothing to be gained here at this point, I'll just summarize my thoughts on the matter.
Firstly, if you want to hate the new characters, you're completely entitled to that action.
Secondly, if you want to complain about them you're entitled to that action.
Thirdly, you can remain as disgruntled and discontented about it as long as you want, or you could go find a way to figure out why they didn't make sense or nonsensical.
I started off with not liking Ayumi in particular, and felt Magari was blatant fan-service. However, because of the sub-plot with the caravela, I started digging to see what else was hidden in the CoPa universe. It was through that I found most of what I know of CoPa.
As talking about Ayumi, or Yoshiki seems like a futile endeavor, I'll just go straight to Seiko.
Yes, I did say that all CoPa characters have their darkside, but there is usually foreshadowing for it. If you want to say Seiko liking Naomi is foreshadowing enough for her to assault her, then that's that. It could or it could not be, although I feel it would be tactless as a writer to do so. Additionally, Seiko killing Naomi would be a 180 turnaround from her position in Blood Covered where she was saving Naomi, even in death. That's more than sending conflicting messages.
I wouldn't call a forced love suicide inherently disturbing, although it would largely be up to personal opinion whether it would be or wouldn't be and also depend on presentation.
Also, I would appreciate it if you would stop begging to me when you make a comment about a change you want. It's been grating on my nerves for the past couple posts.
I do appreciate that you've gone away from the antagonistic Seiko route though.
Honestly, if you're just going to complain and hold fast to your dislike of the characters, continually repeat the same points over and over again, and ignore it when we say that there are other ways to get to know the characters then I don't have much to say to you.
As this post might come off as more than a little annoyed, (which it probably is) I'll just say that my main irritation with this entire conversation is that you keep repeating things I admit are flaws with Blood Drive and say them over and over again. I am not excusing Blood Drive from its faults, but saying that there are faults and could have been made better. Using those same points and attacking me with them is not going to make this go anywhere.
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Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.
I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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WeirdRaptor
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November 17, 2015, 3:37 pm
Post #24
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Soul Mate
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I am not begging anything of you. You said that I should have some idea of what I would have wanted differently, so I laid them out.
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Everything I have referred to past that point is solely contained to Blood Covered, Book of Shadows, and Blood Drive. Where? Give me the exact details and I will replay both games, personally.
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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
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DeathkaiserG
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November 17, 2015, 6:53 pm
Post #25
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Faraway Black Jewel
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Yeah... I guess thats just pretty much it... opinions... they are different so yeah..
for me its like they are introduced properly... like i said i havent read 2U and Cemetery0. Aiko is introduced as cold informant, inumaru as stupidly devoted to sayaka and Magari seems like a psycho.
Btw, we dont have any news/plot for infinity gauntlet arc yet... but i do feel it really need some watching of the old movies. At the very least, for the 2ndary heroes and the infinity stones. Also there are mid-scenes credits about thanos too
I dunno but i do think its already kinda obvious with that... iirc, Grandpa Misuto cared for Misuto which seems pretty nice guy. Kid Misuto maybe a little bit cheeky but he is still innocent. Of course, In thr world, where everything is taken from you... your family shamed and killed, your loved one dies... its hard to take all of that without turning into evil.
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"It is way easier to sneak past a dead person." -- Killian (Killian Experience)
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Zaion
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November 17, 2015, 8:53 pm
Post #26
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FanFiction writer/Translator/Character Bio writer
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As so much of what you wrote was about how she should have done this or done that/was morally incorrect/didn't like this/etc., there is very little in terms of things or concepts I've had to directly link since it's so opinionated and over reaching. Nevertheless, here are the games and chapters I'm thinking of when saying things in everything past my first post.
Additionally, when stating ideas, it helps to phrase them as such or it becomes difficult to tell when you're simply complaining and when you're making a constructive comment.
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Regardless, I think liking a character is pretty similar to liking a person. You only start to like them because you can relate to them and understand them, and if you don't, you end up often disregarding or ignoring them. The reason I'm defending them is because I've spent a lot longer getting to know them for my writing.
If you want to continue disliking them, it's totally fine to ignore the fact that there are other things that describe them. However, that is mostly to do with the way Blood Drive was written, and not how the characters were designed. i.e. it was the introduction that failed miserably, and not the fact that the person being introduced was really unlikable. (Although in Kuon's case that sounds like exactly what happened.) Although it's difficult to see from only seeing the game, there is a difference between bad character design and bad utilization of characters.
CP: BD in general
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I'm actually most confused over your feelings that JD did a better portrayal of Ayumi than Blood Drive. Besides the fact that DoD was focused entirely on Ayumi with no sub-plot of Nirvana, cults, or the destruction of the world (which would by that nature alone make Ayumi's plight more important as it is the only thing we're looking at.), the very fact that Ayumi was able to remain a functional human being in society for 5 or 6 years after killing Satoshi made her seem a lot more mentally stable than the Ayumi of Blood Drive. She didn't try to harm herself, and even became an illustrator. The Ayumi i know wouldn't have recovered from that without a lot of help, so it seemed odd that she seemed to be functioning normally on her own.
You say she was utterly broken in DoD, but doesn't the fact that she's obsessing about her friends to the point her actions almost seem insane mean that she is more broken in Blood Drive?
Perhaps my sympathy towards DoD Ayumi is lesser because she's a grown woman who appears to have gotten over everything, and is suddenly thrown back into a past situation. I'd imagine if you tried to save your friends, ended up killing one more in the process, and then didn't do anything about it for a couple years, you're probably not in the mood to try again and did your best to bury the wound as deep down as possible in order to deal with life. She seemed pretty calm when she first arrives in HH again, especially since it's so sudden.
CP: DoD in the beginning, CP: BD Ayumi's actions through out it
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I'm actually most confused over your feelings that JD did a better portrayal of Ayumi than Blood Drive. Besides the fact that DoD was focused entirely on Ayumi with no sub-plot of Nirvana, cults, or the destruction of the world (which would by that nature alone make Ayumi's plight more important as it is the only thing we're looking at.), the very fact that Ayumi was able to remain a functional human being in society for 5 or 6 years after killing Satoshi made her seem a lot more mentally stable than the Ayumi of Blood Drive. She didn't try to harm herself, and even became an illustrator. The Ayumi i know wouldn't have recovered from that without a lot of help, so it seemed odd that she seemed to be functioning normally on her own.
You say she was utterly broken in DoD, but doesn't the fact that she's obsessing about her friends to the point her actions almost seem insane mean that she is more broken in Blood Drive?
Perhaps my sympathy towards DoD Ayumi is lesser because she's a grown woman who appears to have gotten over everything, and is suddenly thrown back into a past situation. I'd imagine if you tried to save your friends, ended up killing one more in the process, and then didn't do anything about it for a couple years, you're probably not in the mood to try again and did your best to bury the wound as deep down as possible in order to deal with life. She seemed pretty calm when she first arrives in HH again, especially since it's so sudden.
CP: BD Ayumi's actions through out it
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I would call what you described a reactive character, while Ayumi in Blood Drive is a proactive one. Boiled down to this point, which one is better is a matter of opinion.
Personally, watching someone fail over and over again yet still keep trying is something I like.
I'm curious as to what specific moments set you off, although it's sounding more like everything set you off. Was it her sticking her hand down the stone wolf's throat, or was it climbing the white coil? In regards to those actions, I felt that there wasn't much else she could do in either situation.
Simply put, what could she have done to not piss you off is what I'm asking, because at the moment it sounds like you just want her to stay put until someone or something throws her into Heavenly Host at random.
CP: DoD Ayumi's actions in general
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I wasn't worried about Yoshiki at the time either. He wasn't bleeding, and although he was winded he could still talk. Plus, Ayumi was more than a little pissed at the time at him for throwing the Ever After stones under a truck. Comparing that situation to Mayu's is more than a little ridiculous, since she can see he's still got all his arms and leg, and that he's alive. She was shocked by that though, so she wasn't completely ignoring him. CP: BD Chapter 01
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1) She knows he's attracted to her, and she doesn't return those feelings in the first game and is undecided in the second.
1) was first hinted at in Blood Covered, and then re-affirmed with Ayumi's last statement in Blood Drive. Dealing with that sort of situation is more than a little awkward, and does make saying simple things like thank you more than a little difficult. CP: BC Chapter 2, Chapter 5, CP: BD Chapter 01, Chapter 10
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2) She's already set up as someone who's bad at showing others what she's thinking.
2) Ayumi didn't tell her own mother that Hinoe had died, or that she hated herself to the point she was slitting her own wrists. For that sort of person, saying things like that is more than a little difficult. CP: BC Chapter 5, CP:BD Chapter 00
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3) She doesn't like people helping or going out of their way for her.
3) This was already established in the Ex-chapter of Blood Covered, but Ayumi doesn't like it when people do things for her. They don't have to save her, it can be even as simple as an offer to keep her company. That means doing something for her isn't really a favor for her. She doesn't like it, and it's hard to thank someone for something you didn't like. CP: BC Ex-Chapter 6
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As for why Yoshiki puts up with this (besides it being from the effects of the Curse of the Shinozaki) Ayumi is someone who is always helping other people out, and asking them if they're okay. That's the reason why she helped Yoshiki out in the bathroom, and why Yoshiki likes her. She cares about other people, which is something he stopped doing when he was wondering if he should punch Tsubota. In the Japanese, it isn't out of anger that he attacks Tsubota, but a feeling that nobody cares about him, so it doesn't matter what he does anymore. Yoshiki was a pretty self-destructive person back then, and Ayumi saved from that. That's why feels he owes her, and why he finds her attractive. CP: BC Chapter 2, Ex-Chapter 5, Ex-Chapter 6
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Also, it was Yoshiki, Satoshi, and Naomi who told her to stop blaming herself. In that case, she can't apologize to them because they don't want that. Sure, she can apologize for getting them mixed up in this, but the things she was tricked about were all revealed to them around the same time e.g. The Book of Shadows not being in the Nirvana, the Land of Corpse Spell being impossible, etc. If the people you need to apologize to are there when the villain is explaining how they tricked you, is there really a need to apologize at all? CP: BD Chapter 00, Chapter 06 (Additionally, she does apologize to Yoshiki in Chapter 04 when she mistakes him knocking her down as him assaulting her.)
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That still wouldn't make it any better. Seiko's charm is her cheery nature, even in the face of hopelessness. If darkening strips her of that, then it's still the same as making her unlikable, because it means that she wasn't strong enough to give in to her base lusts. Humanity is about balancing the wants and needs of the self with the wants and needs of others. It is because Seiko gives so much to Naomi that she is a great positive force within CoPa.
Additionally, forced love suicides are pretty bad as well, and still entails forcing your desires onto others. When that is mixed with sex, it becomes rape. On it's own though, it is still a disgusting trait that most people do not like.
Furthermore, the only thing darkening does is make you act in an exaggerated manner. This means that any action a character does while under darkening is something they had the potential of doing without it. i.e. If a person murders someone while darkening, they already had the capacity to murder within them. Darkening is a opening up of someone, and not an addition.
If Seiko shows any negative traits during darkening, it means that those negative traits were part of her from the beginning. Seiko's semi-cherub status (which I'm going to be calling at this point because highly positive force is too long), cannot be preserved in anyway if she does something bad while darkened.
CP: BC Chapter 5
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Reading through your comments, I think the major issue with Mist was that he has no duality. Kizami can look suave, sexy, and dependable, however, he's seriously broken on the inside. Sachiko was a innocent little girl turned murdering machine. Yoshie was a school nurse who loved children, and then became what she was in the game. Yoshikazu simply kept the triage of monstrosity going. i.e. He didn't talk. He was mysterious. He was unkillable.
Mist started as a rude character and ended as a rude character. There was no development for him, and they showed their hand too early. Well, most of his development happened off screen, so there's no helping that in anyway or form. Perhaps reading this might make things a little better.
CP: BD all chapters these characters appear in, CP: BC all chapters they appear in
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Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.
I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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WeirdRaptor
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November 17, 2015, 9:03 pm
Post #27
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Soul Mate
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Oh, those are things you were referring to in your last post. I don't my points were overreaching at all. In the end, all I can really say is that I still feel the same way I did when I first posted here. You know what I opinions are at this point.
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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
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Mattie
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November 21, 2015, 8:35 pm
Post #28
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Watashi wa weeb trash
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Penis. Vagina.
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"The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven."
"Those who don't appreciate life do not deserve life."

Spoiler: click to toggle This is by far my favorite scene in anime; from an anime I hate, no less.
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Skybird
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November 21, 2015, 8:39 pm
Post #29
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Grindblues
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- Mattie
- November 21, 2015, 8:35 pm
Penis. Vagina. Please avoid posting things completely unrelated to the topic. Also, be mindful of what you post as they may potentially be offensive towards others or come off as insensitive in light of the serious discussions previous to your post. Thank you.
Edited by Skybird, November 21, 2015, 8:55 pm.
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[ - Gran is the real deal. - ]
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nopinky
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December 6, 2015, 10:00 pm
Post #30
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Best Friend
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I haven't gotten too far, but the lack of voice acting really irks me.
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When all else fails, use a bigger gun.
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