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So, for those of you who have the game; have any gripes with it?; I have... some.
Topic Started: October 18, 2015, 2:17 pm (2,318 Views)
Ajogamer
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nopinky
 
I haven't gotten too far, but the lack of voice acting really irks me.


Hmm, there's definitely been a good amount of voice acting in what I've played so far. Do you mean the lack of voice acting in just a couple particular scenes? Since I do remember some bad ends were lacking it, for example (which was a spot I was kinda wishing it had been voiced as well, since that can up the intensity).

Also, I notice I haven't posted here yet, so guess I might as well add my thoughts. I still haven't beaten the game yet actually (both got it later and haven't been able to play as consistently as I'd like, unfortunately), though I've been enjoying what I've played so far! I'm up to chapter 5 now. Don't feel it's as good as Blood Covered based on what I've seen so far, though it's still a very good game, and it's pretty nice seeing the characters again. Probably the main gripe I'd have would be the load times, though honestly, they really only bothered me when going into the menu (especially since I often wanted to check things like nametags or bad ends). They didn't bother me at all with screen transitions (not sure if the load time's quicker there or if it's just it being less frequent). I did see the frame dropping at some points people talked about, but it didn't really seem like a big deal to me, since it mainly seemed to happen when using the flashlight, which I usually preferred to use in shorter bursts anyway, and even when it happened, the slowdown didn't seem all that major and was usually just for a single room or scene (probably why some plain overlooked it).

I was also pretty impressed by the EXChapters I've seen so far; at least based on the ones I've seen so far, I think I'd even say I'm liking them better than the first game's EXchapters. EXchapter 1 (Answered something a lot were curious about, along with featuring two characters I really like) and 3 (Really loved getting a chance to know Kai better, along with seeing the Byakudan students again) really stood out for me in particular, though 2 was also pretty good (seemed pretty plot-important too). Only those 3 that unlocked for me so far though, so definitely curious what I'll think of the later ones.
Edited by Ajogamer, December 6, 2015, 10:30 pm.
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nopinky
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Whoops, I wasn't clear. The fact that some scenes lack voice acting really irks me, after all the character lines and most of the character's thoughts were voice acted in previous games.
When all else fails, use a bigger gun.
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Zaion
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It always saddens me when someone says they're enjoying XSEED's version of Blood Drive, due to the large amount of liberties they've taken with the plot.

I'm not griping about the odd word or phrase, but entire plot points or narratives that they've changed completely.

Having talked with Tom on the XSEED forums, he's pretty much admitted that they did mess up, mainly due to him not enjoying the game as much as previous titles and trying to modify it so it more resembled Blood Covered and Book of Shadows.

Honestly, I feel XSEED's localization and the original Blood Drive might as well be two completely different stories due to them making more interpretations of the text than translations. Perhaps this is because I am Japanese, but some of the mistakes made are very confusing to me, as it is impossible to make them if you follow the grammar.
Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.

I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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nopinky
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How severe are these changes? A few words slightly changed? A phrase? I don't get it when people say that something's ruined because of a few liberties with translation.
Edited by nopinky, December 6, 2015, 11:19 pm.
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Zaion
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Ch8 Misuto's Speech

Ch10

They also change the 3rd person narrative to a 1st person one, leading to multiple times where characters make odd comments. e.g. They change tense, they talk about things they don't know about.

This quote sums it up
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It's especially weird when you have events like Ayumi bringing up the movement of a statue while mentioning she isn't the one seeing it, or when Kuon is watching a news broadcast and it's written as narrated by Satoshi even though he's not even in the same building. The former could have been dealt with just by altering the text, but it's stuff like the latter that honestly just makes it seem like it's written in first-person for the sake of it.
Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.

I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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nopinky
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That's strange- I haven't gotten to that point in the game yet, so I can't say, but I'll tell you what I think once I get there.
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Ajogamer
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Zaion
December 6, 2015, 11:05 pm
It always saddens me when someone says they're enjoying XSEED's version of Blood Drive, due to the large amount of liberties they've taken with the plot.

I'm not griping about the odd word or phrase, but entire plot points or narratives that they've changed completely.

Having talked with Tom on the XSEED forums, he's pretty much admitted that they did mess up, mainly due to him not enjoying the game as much as previous titles and trying to modify it so it more resembled Blood Covered and Book of Shadows.

Honestly, I feel XSEED's localization and the original Blood Drive might as well be two completely different stories due to them making more interpretations of the text than translations. Perhaps this is because I am Japanese, but some of the mistakes made are very confusing to me, as it is impossible to make them if you follow the grammar.
While I do get what you're saying with those complaints, also keep in mind that for the vast majority of Corpse Party's English fanbase, it's between enjoying the game with XSEED's translation, or understanding absolutely none of Blood Drive's text.

Now, lemme also say before continuing that everything I say below isn't to try and argue, but just to give my own interpretation and explain why I find XSEED's localizations to be very enjoyable and overall pretty good, even knowing there are some errors in some of the Corpse Party games.

Now, I do realize "it's all us English-speaking fans have" isn't a very good argument for the quality of the translation; I say that more since while there are some errors as you pointed out, I think most of them may seem far more glaring for someone in your position who can easily read and understand both versions easily and compare side by side, than for someone who can only read and understand the game in English, or that prefers a translation that isn't as literal. I also read the topic you posted on the XSEED forums, and while I didn't read absolutely everything there (since I haven't beaten the game yet), I did read the majority, which was enough for me to see that they definitely did messed up on some things, so I definitely get why you're not satisfied with Blood Drive's translation as a whole (especially since it does seem to change the interpretation of a couple plot-related aspects). That said, aside from those errors, I still feel the translation as a whole is very well-written and natural-sounding along with being accurate for the most part, therefore it's an enjoyable translation for me.

Now, I realize this next point comes a bit down to preference, but at least for myself, I prefer a translation that focuses more on translating the overall meaning than on translating the exact wording, since I feel that often results in a translation that sounds more natural and and full of personality in English. At least for me, I don't see any errors or issues with Blood Covered's translation at all, since far as I'm aware, they mainly took some liberties along the lines of what I said above (such as the "butter up my pooper" line, which definitely is different with the wording and is more goofy sounding, but still keeps the original meaning intact), and I also believe all the plot points remained intact, so no complaints there either. All this also applies to how I feel about Book of Shadows for the most part, though I do know that had some errors ("Nari Amatoya" being translated as "Yanari Amato" at one point is a pretty glaring one) though even if those errors were definitely sloppy (and they do bother me as well to an extent), they didn't affect any important plot points. I also have no complaints aside from those couple instances, so those errors are only a more minor gripe for me, and as a result, I feel Blood Drive's translation holds up very well overall.

Now, going to Blood Drive, I'd agree that the errors they made were a more serious, since as you've said, they affect the interpretation of certain plot points. Exactly how serious those errors are I can't say for sure since I haven't completed Blood Drive and seen those errors in context yet, but based on what I can tell, it seemed like it was mainly the implications of certain lines that was mininterpretted to an extent, which mainly affects the implications of those scenes or the subtle nuances between certain characters, and not the plot as a whole. Such aspects are definitely things I consider important to be translated accurately, so I definitely see those errors as a significant issue as well, though at the same time I'd say that's far from altering the entire plot or narrative, so saying they might as well be two entirely different stories really comes across as a bit much to me. I do understand how you may feel that way since you read the Japanese translation first and are pretty attached to that version, and they did make some significant errors (that chapter 8 and chapter 10 bit you put in spoilers above are what stuck out to me the most), though those scenes are still only a small portion of the entire game, since they deal with specific character subplots that are only a small part in the game's plot as a whole; the vast majority of the game's text is still accurate and conveys the intended meaning far as I'm aware, and is still a very enjoyable read since it flows well and conveys the character's personalities very well. For me that counts for a lot, since a translation that reads well and isn't dry is just as important as accuracy. Now, I'm not excusing those issues, since Blood Drive's translation would absolutely be better in my eyes if XSEED hadn't made those few errors they had (and I am glad you brought it to their attention, since they're definitely significant enough errors to be worth calling them out on), but even if they are significant, they're a minor enough part of the plot and translation as a whole that I see them as far from game-ruining, especially since I feel it was translated well outside of those couple aspects.

In any case, I can get why you're disappointed with XSEED's translations and why they may seem worse from your perspective, and I don't expect you to like their work any better after having said all this, but hopefully this gives you a better idea why some of us still enjoy their translated versions of the Corpse Party series and still consider them to be good translations as a whole.
Edited by Ajogamer, December 7, 2015, 1:00 am.
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Zaion
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Yeah, I know, but it still saddens me because every time I talk about Corpse Party: Blood Drive I have to keep on saying "XX wasn't there" or "That's not what YY said."

It sort of ruins it because, in the end, you and I haven't played the same game so we can't talk about the juicy stuff that makes up Corpse Party, and end up getting caught up in a that's not what s/he said conversation.

Also, although you say it seems to be minor sub-plots and interpretations, people are getting the ending of the game confused due to the localization issues of the game. That alone tells me that there are issues with the translation, because those issues didn't occur in the Japanese fandom.

In the end though, this is just me being annoyed that most people aren't getting the full story of Corpse Party. I don't have an issue with people enjoying themselves, but it makes me sad that a part of that enjoyment may be non-canon due to the way XSEED localized the game.

To use an analogy, it's sort of like reading a novel, then learning that every one else in your group only got the censored version that removed all the controversial issues. The plot may have survived part of the censorship, but it's still diminished none the less.

Perhaps I'm ruining other people's fun by saying that the only available version of the material they like is incorrect or flawed, but am I at fault for calling it out, or is the provider the one at fault for making those issues in the first place? If we don't really care about what state the thing we like is presented to us, what point is there for liking at all?

This is the issue I have with people liking XSEED's localization. When they say they like it, they are verifying a flawed product*. It's like saying something bad is something good, and all because of a single language barrier.

There's no need to answer any of the issues I bring up. They're mainly rhetorical at this point, and I feel like I'm raging as well. However, just as you felt you needed to explain why English fans enjoy XSEED's version of Corpse Party, I have to also explain why I am annoyed when people say they're enjoying it.

NB* I stand by that statement when I say XSEED's version is flawed. True, it gets you from the credits to the ending, but you could have watched a Japanese stream of it, and still gotten that. Additionally, there are blatant grammatical issues that had nothing to do with localization or making the English sound better.

e.g. "uniquely-designed green pins in her hair." vs "hairpin a peculiar shade of green"

both the number and the adjective the word unique/peculiar was applied to were changed. This just seems like sloppy translating as the change isn't making it easier to read in English, and there is no room to interpret the number or the color of the hairpin. This happened regularly throughout Blood Drive, and sometimes in Blood Covered and Book of Shadows. I didn't comment on them before because, as you said, they aren't the most plot relevant things in the world. However, after 3 games of getting it wrong, there is only so much mickey one can take before losing it.
Edited by Zaion, December 7, 2015, 3:19 am.
Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.

I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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Ajogamer
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Thanks for the explanation, that definitely does give me a better idea of where your frustrtaton's coming from. Responding to a couple points there:

Zaion
 
Yeah, I know, but it still saddens me because every time I talk about Corpse Party: Blood Drive I have to keep on saying "XX wasn't there" or "That's not what YY said."

It sort of ruins it because, in the end, you and I haven't played the same game so we can't talk about the juicy stuff that makes up Corpse Party, and end up getting caught up in a that's not what s/he said conversation.

I can definitely understand your disappointment and how that'd get in the way, but I guess what I'm unsure of is just how prevalent it is. Like, if it were one of those two examples you posted above, I could definitely see how there'd be an explanation required (and even just that can definitely be annoying), though I haven't noticed or heard of any issues up to the point I've played (chapter 5 and the first 3 EXchapters), which makes me think it's only a very small potion of the overall translation with translation errors, even if a few of those errors are significant ones. I'll admit it's certainly possible I'm ignorant of some existing errors, though.

Zaion
 
Also, although you say it seems to be minor sub-plots and interpretations, people are getting the ending of the game confused due to the localization issues of the game. That alone tells me that there are issues with the translation, because those issues didn't occur in the Japanese fandom.

Hmm, if that is indeed the fault of the translation being inaccurate or more confusing than the Japanese, then that definitely would be a pretty big issue. Unfortunately, I can't really comment much beyond that since I haven't reached that point yet, though that's definitely sounds more concerning (and I'd definitely wan to look into that more once I've beaten the game).

Zaion
 
Perhaps I'm ruining other people's fun by saying that the only available version of the material they like is incorrect or flawed, but am I at fault for calling it out, or is the provider the one at fault for making those issues in the first place? If we don't really care about what state the thing we like is presented to us, what point is there for liking at all?

Nah, I don't think you're at fault for calling any errors out; I agree the issue would lie with the translator. I also agree that the state a work is presented is pretty important as well. If there's anywhere I disagree, it's probably on the extent or importance of the errors. It's clear to me at this point that Blood Drive does have some issues in its translation.when I think of a severely flawed translaton, I often think more along the lines of many of the gmes translations that came out in the SNES and PS1 era, which could often not only be dry and lacking detail to the point some of the smaller nuance and implications would be lost in the process, but also often contained obvious errors (like say, "Asashin" instead of "Assassin" or "Gorem" instead of "Golem"), or even worse, some of the machine translations out there that both read poorly and grossly misinterpret due to lack of context. It's possible this may just be me nitpicking a bit and being overly-precise with wording, though that's more what I was getting at; I agree that Blood Drive's translation has some issues and that XSEED should be held to a higher standard (even if there are far worse official translations, that doesn't automatically make any errors okay), I just feel differently on how flawed it is, since I honestly feel the majority of it is pretty well done, since most the plot and character-related aspects still seem intact to me for the most part. I guess my viewpoint could be summarized as "Those translation issues are definitely disappointing, but the translation is still pretty good overall, so I still enjoy it and would definitely recommend it to any English-speaking fans".

I also want to say that I hope I didn't seem like I was criticizing you for your disappointment (and likewise, none of the above is meant as a rebuttal either) since it's definitely fine to express that disappointment, and I honestly appreciate knowing about some of those translation issues as well, since it helps give me a clearer picture of those character-related aspects I may have missed out on otherwise.
Edited by Ajogamer, December 7, 2015, 4:50 am.
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Zaion
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Yeah, I probably came off as a bit too harsh as well.

I guess the real issue for me is that I've been using different standards to you when judging XSEED's translations. They do a lot of narrative driven games, and I see Corpse Party as more as an interactive novel than a game. Because of that, I was judging its translation on the standards of novels instead of the PS1 and N64 games.

There are a lot of Japanese novels that have been translated very well into English, and they never did the things that I saw happen in XSEED's translations of Corpse Party. They managed to preserve both the meaning, and even use the English equivalent of the poetic devices the Japanese used.

What's most important was that they preserved the very visual style that a lot of Japanese novels have, without making the English seem odd. The extremely detailed imagery that is prevalent in Japanese writing is something I feel that separates them from English novels, and has been converted into English without making it sound robotic or difficult to understand.

In short, I have read well translated books across a variety of genres that have done a really good job with the translation. To me, this shows that a full conversion of meaning, poetry, and grammar is possible between Japanese and English. That's why I've always felt XSEED's translations have been lack luster.

In that light, maybe I shouldn't feel as annoyed.
Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath.

I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests.
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