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CR7 wins Ballon D'or
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Topic Started: Jan 13 2014, 05:18 PM (489 Views)
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dream_team
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Jan 22 2014, 07:24 AM
Post #31
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@rwmlite are you really saying without Ramsey we wouldn't have finished top 4 last season because you believe so or because you hate 0893 and want to appease santry? Someone correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it this same Ramsey that people were wondering what he actually brought to the table last season, and why Wenger plays him every week.? So all of a sudden without Ramsey we wouldn't have made top 4 last year? Give me a break rwmlite
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dream_team
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Jan 22 2014, 07:26 AM
Post #32
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Santry or whatever your name the opinions of Managers&coaches(professionals),footballers(professional) and sports writers far outweigh optaStats or optaJoe or whatever you call it.
I don't even know why you lot are arguing about Debuchy, he's a good player and a case could be made for him to be in the team of the season so far but so does Pablo Zabaleta and even Sagna.
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rw_mlite2
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Jan 22 2014, 11:20 AM
Post #33
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- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:24 AM
@rwmlite are you really saying without Ramsey we wouldn't have finished top 4 last season because you believe so or because you hate 0893 and want to appease santry? Someone correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it this same Ramsey that people were wondering what he actually brought to the table last season, and why Wenger plays him every week.? So all of a sudden without Ramsey we wouldn't have made top 4 last year? Give me a break rwmlite I don't hate 0893. I've defended him in the past. It's you who has a hard on for other posters. Don't try and lump me in to your myopic views of posters on here.
As for Ramsey, once he started playing back in MF and getting a run of games there, his trajectory went cliff-face steep. From around February timeframe on he was the best player on our team and one of the most consistent in the league. He played fantastic the last couple months of the season. It's no coincidence that our league form took off when he was playing his best. If you can't see that then you have no business posting on this thread.
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supercollider7
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Jan 22 2014, 12:01 PM
Post #34
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- rw_mlite2
- Jan 22 2014, 11:20 AM
- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:24 AM
@rwmlite are you really saying without Ramsey we wouldn't have finished top 4 last season because you believe so or because you hate 0893 and want to appease santry? Someone correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it this same Ramsey that people were wondering what he actually brought to the table last season, and why Wenger plays him every week.? So all of a sudden without Ramsey we wouldn't have made top 4 last year? Give me a break rwmlite
I don't hate 0893. I've defended him in the past. It's you who has a hard on for other posters. Don't try and lump me in to your myopic views of posters on here. As for Ramsey, once he started playing back in MF and getting a run of games there, his trajectory went cliff-face steep. From around February timeframe on he was the best player on our team and one of the most consistent in the league. He played fantastic the last couple months of the season. It's no coincidence that our league form took off when he was playing his best. If you can't see that then you have no business posting on this thread. Ramsey wasn't a spectacular player last year but the margins were so slim that if he had been injured I don't think we'd have made top 4. He was a big part of how well we played, not in terms of creativity but his overall midfield play.
I dont' want to get into the silly Yaya debate. I think Ramsey has to do more to prove that he's better than Yaya, who has been a key player in title winning teams. But I think Ramsey had a brilliant 2013 and objectively speaking if Yaya was among the votes then so should have been Ramsey. But it's not objective, the votes are completely subjective so the reptutation and history of the player plays a big part.
And the player ratings like Whoscored are obviously flawed but if you understand what they are and what they measure then they are the most objective way of measuring a players' performance. And I think often the whoscored rating pretty accurately reflect what happened in the game, so I don't like to dismiss them outright just because they disagree with my perception.
But there would be no fun in awarding a player the Ballon D'Or based on objectivity. All the big names would get left out and we couldn't argue over who actually deserved it.
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supercollider7
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Jan 22 2014, 12:17 PM
Post #35
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- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:26 AM
Santry or whatever your name the opinions of Managers&coaches(professionals),footballers(professional) and sports writers far outweigh optaStats or optaJoe or whatever you call it.
I don't even know why you lot are arguing about Debuchy, he's a good player and a case could be made for him to be in the team of the season so far but so does Pablo Zabaleta and even Sagna. If only you would realize that managers and coaches rely on statistical analysis. Opta is a service that provides statistics and analysis tools to clubs and it's a growing business as more and more clubs and coaches see the value in complementing their observations with numerical records of what happened in the game.
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rw_mlite2
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Jan 22 2014, 12:18 PM
Post #36
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- supercollider7
- Jan 22 2014, 12:01 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Jan 22 2014, 11:20 AM
- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:24 AM
@rwmlite are you really saying without Ramsey we wouldn't have finished top 4 last season because you believe so or because you hate 0893 and want to appease santry? Someone correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it this same Ramsey that people were wondering what he actually brought to the table last season, and why Wenger plays him every week.? So all of a sudden without Ramsey we wouldn't have made top 4 last year? Give me a break rwmlite
I don't hate 0893. I've defended him in the past. It's you who has a hard on for other posters. Don't try and lump me in to your myopic views of posters on here. As for Ramsey, once he started playing back in MF and getting a run of games there, his trajectory went cliff-face steep. From around February timeframe on he was the best player on our team and one of the most consistent in the league. He played fantastic the last couple months of the season. It's no coincidence that our league form took off when he was playing his best. If you can't see that then you have no business posting on this thread.
Ramsey wasn't a spectacular player last year but the margins were so slim that if he had been injured I don't think we'd have made top 4. He was a big part of how well we played, not in terms of creativity but his overall midfield play. I dont' want to get into the silly Yaya debate. I think Ramsey has to do more to prove that he's better than Yaya, who has been a key player in title winning teams. But I think Ramsey had a brilliant 2013 and objectively speaking if Yaya was among the votes then so should have been Ramsey. But it's not objective, the votes are completely subjective so the reptutation and history of the player plays a big part. And the player ratings like Whoscored are obviously flawed but if you understand what they are and what they measure then they are the most objective way of measuring a players' performance. And I think often the whoscored rating pretty accurately reflect what happened in the game, so I don't like to dismiss them outright just because they disagree with my perception. But there would be no fun in awarding a player the Ballon D'Or based on objectivity. All the big names would get left out and we couldn't argue over who actually deserved it. I was referencing his overall MF play. From a creative standpoint he didn't match what he did at the beginning of this year, but he was absolutely instrumental in our push to the top 4.
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dream_team
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Jan 22 2014, 12:56 PM
Post #37
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- supercollider7
- Jan 22 2014, 12:17 PM
- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:26 AM
Santry or whatever your name the opinions of Managers&coaches(professionals),footballers(professional) and sports writers far outweigh optaStats or optaJoe or whatever you call it.
I don't even know why you lot are arguing about Debuchy, he's a good player and a case could be made for him to be in the team of the season so far but so does Pablo Zabaleta and even Sagna.
If only you would realize that managers and coaches rely on statistical analysis. Opta is a service that provides statistics and analysis tools to clubs and it's a growing business as more and more clubs and coaches see the value in complementing their observations with numerical records of what happened in the game. If coaches rely on statistical analysis then in the past few years Osman of Everton would have been one of the most sort after players on the planet. If coaches and managers rely on statistical analysis, then club wouldn't waste their resources on employing scouts to go watch players. If Coaches and managers rely on statictical wouldn't waste their precious time travelling to watch players. If the statistical analysis is a growing business how come the tradition of going to games to watch transfer target isn't decreasing? how come national team managers travel even MORE these days to go watch their national team players??
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dream_team
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Jan 22 2014, 01:01 PM
Post #38
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- rw_mlite2
- Jan 22 2014, 12:18 PM
- supercollider7
- Jan 22 2014, 12:01 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Jan 22 2014, 11:20 AM
- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:24 AM
@rwmlite are you really saying without Ramsey we wouldn't have finished top 4 last season because you believe so or because you hate 0893 and want to appease santry? Someone correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it this same Ramsey that people were wondering what he actually brought to the table last season, and why Wenger plays him every week.? So all of a sudden without Ramsey we wouldn't have made top 4 last year? Give me a break rwmlite
I don't hate 0893. I've defended him in the past. It's you who has a hard on for other posters. Don't try and lump me in to your myopic views of posters on here. As for Ramsey, once he started playing back in MF and getting a run of games there, his trajectory went cliff-face steep. From around February timeframe on he was the best player on our team and one of the most consistent in the league. He played fantastic the last couple months of the season. It's no coincidence that our league form took off when he was playing his best. If you can't see that then you have no business posting on this thread.
Ramsey wasn't a spectacular player last year but the margins were so slim that if he had been injured I don't think we'd have made top 4. He was a big part of how well we played, not in terms of creativity but his overall midfield play. I dont' want to get into the silly Yaya debate. I think Ramsey has to do more to prove that he's better than Yaya, who has been a key player in title winning teams. But I think Ramsey had a brilliant 2013 and objectively speaking if Yaya was among the votes then so should have been Ramsey. But it's not objective, the votes are completely subjective so the reptutation and history of the player plays a big part. And the player ratings like Whoscored are obviously flawed but if you understand what they are and what they measure then they are the most objective way of measuring a players' performance. And I think often the whoscored rating pretty accurately reflect what happened in the game, so I don't like to dismiss them outright just because they disagree with my perception. But there would be no fun in awarding a player the Ballon D'Or based on objectivity. All the big names would get left out and we couldn't argue over who actually deserved it.
I was referencing his overall MF play. From a creative standpoint he didn't match what he did at the beginning of this year, but he was absolutely instrumental in our push to the top 4. Ramsey played better than yaya or matched yaya's performance from January to May 2013?
The other half we would be looking at is August to December 2013 of course.
Funny that a player who was average at best till that Bayern munich game in March is considered to have a better year than Yaya, such ridiculous notion is only possible on this board.
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Gooner0893
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Jan 22 2014, 01:27 PM
Post #39
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Ramsey came into his own during the later part of the 2012/2013 season. He scored two goals, had a couple of assists. Nowhere did he influence his team like Yaya can. Ramsey has improved leaps and bounds but he is simply not in the same category as a player talent wise and skills wise as Yaya. There is nothing that he does better than Yaya. I struggle to find one single thing. He doesn't see the field like Yaya. He can't dominate a game like Yaya. He is not the shooter Yaya is or the dribbler that Yaya is. He is not the passer that Yaya is.
As talented as City is, Yaya is the one player they struggle most without when he can't play. The past two seasons when Yaya departed for the ACN, City struggled. Arsenal has managed just fine without Ramsey. That's not to discredit Ramsey who has become one of Arsenal's better players. However if Ramsey played for this very talented City team right now, and the whole squad was healthy, would he start? Very unlikely. He would not start ahead of Fernandhino and he would definitely start ahead of Yaya who is the first name with Kompany and Aguero on the team sheet.
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supercollider7
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Jan 22 2014, 02:01 PM
Post #40
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- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 12:56 PM
- supercollider7
- Jan 22 2014, 12:17 PM
- dream_team
- Jan 22 2014, 07:26 AM
Santry or whatever your name the opinions of Managers&coaches(professionals),footballers(professional) and sports writers far outweigh optaStats or optaJoe or whatever you call it.
I don't even know why you lot are arguing about Debuchy, he's a good player and a case could be made for him to be in the team of the season so far but so does Pablo Zabaleta and even Sagna.
If only you would realize that managers and coaches rely on statistical analysis. Opta is a service that provides statistics and analysis tools to clubs and it's a growing business as more and more clubs and coaches see the value in complementing their observations with numerical records of what happened in the game.
If coaches rely on statistical analysis then in the past few years Osman of Everton would have been one of the most sort after players on the planet. If coaches and managers rely on statistical analysis, then club wouldn't waste their resources on employing scouts to go watch players. If Coaches and managers rely on statictical wouldn't waste their precious time travelling to watch players. If the statistical analysis is a growing business how come the tradition of going to games to watch transfer target isn't decreasing? how come national team managers travel even MORE these days to go watch their national team players?? You're hilarious. Your continued denial of reality is astounding.
"...complement their observations..." Of course you're going to watch players. As there's no way to fully quantify certain things like positioning. And data collecting and analysis isn't at the level yet where you can almost substitute it for watching a game. And also, coaches/scouts probably try to gauge the players temperament, character from what they do on the pitch, when can be important.
And apparently you don't believe in reading either, but take a look at this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22299503
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