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Wenger never cease to amaze me; He thinks its unfair to sell Mata to United
Topic Started: Jan 23 2014, 09:06 AM (625 Views)
supercollider7
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jays712
Jan 23 2014, 12:56 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
To me, its like spitting into the wind. The January window isn't going anywhere so why bother complaining. If the shoe was on the other foot and Jose was bitching about this (which I'm sure he would), we would laugh and call him a crybaby whiner.
Jays, no one is outraged and no one is bitching about this. Jose bitches and whines every week after a match and people say they'll "pay to watch his press conferences."
When Wenger speaks a bit of sense people get offended.

Wenger is not outraged or offended, he has many times said that he doesn't like the January window, it's a distraction, it destabalizes players and clubs midseason, and it creates an unfair advantage for certain teams.

You could argue that he was whining if he said something unreasonable but he's absolutely spot on here.
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dsch15
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dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:10 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
The objection here is that Wenger is guilty of the same thing i.e buying and selling in January.
Then the objection misses the mark.

Wenger may have a general complaint about the January window, but in this specific case he's called out a "loophole" that allows a team to strengthen an opponent without themselves having to face that opponent. Chelsea obviously waited until they were done with United before handing over Mata. The fact that is allowed points to a deficiency in the rules.

With regard to the transfer window generally, Wenger is "guilty" of nothing. He would prefer the window did not exist, but as long as it does he has an obligation to the club to use it to remain competitive.

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dream_team
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cruyff_turn
Jan 23 2014, 01:01 PM
jays712
Jan 23 2014, 12:56 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
To me, its like spitting into the wind. The January window isn't going anywhere so why bother complaining. If the shoe was on the other foot and Jose was bitching about this (which I'm sure he would), we would laugh and call him a crybaby whiner.
You don't know that for sure. Many coaches have come out against the January transfer window over the last few seasons, and it could continue to pick up steam. Sure, changes in football are rare, but it's not impossible.
I doubt it will ever happen, Cruyff. The only way to make the rule 'fair', is to CANCEL the winter transfer window, because for this to be called a 'transfer window', it has to be open for at least few weeks and matches will be played in England during that period. I'm sure the smaller clubs would object to that, as injuries could pile up quickly to several key players and the inabilty to get cover would mean they are relegated. Moreover the transfer window is for the whole of Europe, so you'll need quite a significant number of leagues complaining before the issue will be taken with any source of seriousness, but first of all the people complaining about the window should lead by example and STOP buying in January.
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dsch15
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dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:16 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 01:12 PM
jays712
Jan 23 2014, 12:56 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
To me, its like spitting into the wind. The January window isn't going anywhere so why bother complaining. If the shoe was on the other foot and Jose was bitching about this (which I'm sure he would), we would laugh and call him a crybaby whiner.
Maybe the use of the window for this sort of "tactical" sale is rare enough that nothing will be done, but it's perfectly fair to take issue with it. Wenger does whine now and then, but this is not one of those times.
you really see this as a 'tactical' sale?
Several things converged nicely for Chelsea. They have a player surplus to requirements that other clubs still value highly. United is desperate to get him. The schedule lines up so that come mid-January, Chelsea no longer have to face United in the league. The transfer itself may not be "tactical", but its timing unquestionably is.
Edited by dsch15, Jan 23 2014, 01:28 PM.
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dream_team
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dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 01:24 PM
dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:10 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
The objection here is that Wenger is guilty of the same thing i.e buying and selling in January.
Then the objection misses the mark.

Wenger may have a general complaint about the January window, but in this specific case he's called out a "loophole" that allows a team to strengthen an opponent without themselves having to face that opponent. Chelsea obviously waited until they were done with United before handing over Mata. The fact that is allowed points to a deficiency in the rules.

With regard to the transfer window generally, Wenger is "guilty" of nothing. He would prefer the window did not exist, but as long as it does he has an obligation to the club to use it to remain competitive.

is it really a "loophole" or coincidence? did Man utd bid for Mata before the chelsea game or after?
Moyes before the united game was busy in Italy watching the likes of Vidal and Pogba but for some reason you think he wanted Mata before the Chelsea game but Chelsea delayed. If Chelsea just wanted United to beat their rivals for them, they would simply loan him out and get back their player back in the summer. The bottom line is Mata expressed his anger when he was substituted against southampton, he hasn't played a minute since, the probabilty of him leaving would increase by every game he isn't played, me thinks Mata desire to leave would be greater after being left out again against United at the weekend than it was before the game.
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rw_mlite2
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Posters keep going on about how the rules are unfair or the rules should be changed. Well...let's hear some suggestions, then. Because where I'm sitting, I really don't see how any changes can be implemented other than to eliminate the January window altogether.
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dream_team
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rw_mlite2
Jan 23 2014, 01:34 PM
Posters keep going on about how the rules are unfair or the rules should be changed. Well...let's hear some suggestions, then. Because where I'm sitting, I really don't see how any changes can be implemented other than to eliminate the January window altogether.
+1
In addition, the summer transfer window has to end before the season of any European league starts, I think some league starts ending of July.
Edited by dream_team, Jan 23 2014, 01:42 PM.
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
You guys are really nice to engage pizzy on this one. Talk about the merits of the January window and the likelihood of reform if you wish, but let's first acknowledge that Wenger is both a whiner and a hypocrite.

pfft.
Edited by JustOneDennisBergkamp, Jan 23 2014, 01:42 PM.
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dsch15
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dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:33 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 01:24 PM
dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:10 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
The objection here is that Wenger is guilty of the same thing i.e buying and selling in January.
Then the objection misses the mark.

Wenger may have a general complaint about the January window, but in this specific case he's called out a "loophole" that allows a team to strengthen an opponent without themselves having to face that opponent. Chelsea obviously waited until they were done with United before handing over Mata. The fact that is allowed points to a deficiency in the rules.

With regard to the transfer window generally, Wenger is "guilty" of nothing. He would prefer the window did not exist, but as long as it does he has an obligation to the club to use it to remain competitive.

is it really a "loophole" or coincidence? did Man utd bid for Mata before the chelsea game or after?
Moyes before the united game was busy in Italy watching the likes of Vidal and Pogba but for some reason you think he wanted Mata before the Chelsea game but Chelsea delayed. If Chelsea just wanted United to beat their rivals for them, they would simply loan him out and get back their player back in the summer. The bottom line is Mata expressed his anger when he was substituted against southampton, he hasn't played a minute since, the probabilty of him leaving would increase by every game he isn't played, me thinks Mata desire to leave would be greater after being left out again against United at the weekend than it was before the game.
It doesn't matter.

I'll stipulate it's a complete coincidence. Everybody's hands are clean, and no manipulation of the rules to Chelsea's advantage was intended.

The fact remains the rules as constituted allow any team with less pure motives than Chelsea to do exactly what they have in fact done (and Wenger has objected to), i.e., sell a strong player to a rival knowing they won't have to face that player for the balance of the season, while their rivals for the title will. The loophole remains and creates the opportunity for unfairness. It should be closed.
Edited by dsch15, Jan 23 2014, 01:44 PM.
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dream_team
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dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 01:43 PM
dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:33 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 01:24 PM
dream_team
Jan 23 2014, 01:10 PM
dsch15
Jan 23 2014, 11:42 AM
I don't understand the objections to Wenger's point here.

Rules are meant to ensure fairness. To the extent they may be used to produce the opposite, as they clearly have here, they should be changed. Chelsea have done what any sensible team would, but this particular tactic should no longer be allowed.
The objection here is that Wenger is guilty of the same thing i.e buying and selling in January.
Then the objection misses the mark.

Wenger may have a general complaint about the January window, but in this specific case he's called out a "loophole" that allows a team to strengthen an opponent without themselves having to face that opponent. Chelsea obviously waited until they were done with United before handing over Mata. The fact that is allowed points to a deficiency in the rules.

With regard to the transfer window generally, Wenger is "guilty" of nothing. He would prefer the window did not exist, but as long as it does he has an obligation to the club to use it to remain competitive.

is it really a "loophole" or coincidence? did Man utd bid for Mata before the chelsea game or after?
Moyes before the united game was busy in Italy watching the likes of Vidal and Pogba but for some reason you think he wanted Mata before the Chelsea game but Chelsea delayed. If Chelsea just wanted United to beat their rivals for them, they would simply loan him out and get back their player back in the summer. The bottom line is Mata expressed his anger when he was substituted against southampton, he hasn't played a minute since, the probabilty of him leaving would increase by every game he isn't played, me thinks Mata desire to leave would be greater after being left out again against United at the weekend than it was before the game.
It doesn't matter.

I'll stipulate it's a complete coincidence. Everybody's hands are clean, and no manipulation of the rules to Chelsea's advantage was intended.

The fact remains the rules as constituted allow any team with less pure motives than Chelsea to do exactly what they have in fact done (and Wenger has objected to), i.e., sell a strong player to a rival knowing they won't have to face that player for the balance of the season, while their rivals for the title will. The loophole remains and creates the opportunity for unfairness. It should be closed.
so winter transfer window should be cancelled.So then what about the summer window, it's open till August 31st when about 3/4 round of matches has been played in England, in leagues that start earlier than the EPL like the bundesliga and Russia league it's even worse, so that has to be adjusted to ensure total fairness too right?
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