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OT:Americans and guns
Topic Started: Jan 28 2014, 08:01 AM (617 Views)
dream_team
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This is probably my first 'OT' on this board, I ran across this interview this morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sERXOthTntU

I found the interview shocking as well as hilarious, what do you American folks think about that senator views and gun control in general?
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jays712
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First off, it disturbs me that I almost share the same last name as this senator (drop the D and replace with an S). Anyway, any person that wants to wave the 2nd amendment in my face as an absolute right to walk the streets with a gun on their hip I personally feel is a moron. While the Founding Fathers created a brilliant document called the Constitution, it's not perfect. How do we know that? We've had to put amendments on it over the years to fix some things. The same document that the NRA proudly stands behind also says that African-Americans only count for three-fifths of a person. This amendment was originally created when our country was brand new and under a real threat of invasion at any time by the English (which did happen in 1812) and the Spanish. There was a need back then to have this right available to all citizens. To apply that in this day and age is complete idiocy.

I support the assault weapons ban, a ban on extra ammo clips, and a very strong regulation on all other types of firearms, such as rifles, shotguns, and handguns. Here in PA (every state has their own gun laws, some tougher than others, ours is a joke), it is ridiculously easy for me to go to a local gun show and purchase weapons almost on the spot that could wipe out a room full of people in seconds.
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mlshock35
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Just an FYI this guy, Sen. Nathan Dahm is a state senator... not a Senator. In the grand political scheme, he's a toadstool in the forrest.

As far as guns go... and this is just my crazy liberal way of looking at things.... I think gun should be broken down into 2 different Tiers.

TIER ONE: If you want to buy a rifle to hunt or a hand gun for protection, you should submit to a background check. Screened, cataloged and held 100% responsible for ANY crime committed with that weapon whether it was their doing so or someone else's.

TIER TWO: I can't imagine why one would need an AR-15 Assault Rifle (or the like) with a 100+ magazine capacity to go hunting or home protection.... and while I hesitate to ban them completely, people that want to own such a weapon should be very heavily screened, cataloged and held 100% responsible for ANY crime committed with that weapon whether it was their doing so or someone else's. I'll go even further to say that like the IRS, there should be a branch of the gov. that does spot checks and pops in on people with Tier 2 firearms and checks on their status. (Is it being safely stored, properly maintained,... or is it fully loaded leaning up against your kids crib?).

The second amendment was written when we had muskets and sling shots..... so lets not us some common sense and adjust with the times.

Keep in mind, I also think if the NSA wants to listen to my phone conversations or read my texts... they are welcome to do so and will be bored to tears! But thats just me.
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jays712
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Obama was a state senator 4 years before becoming president. Gotta start somewhere In the politcal ladder. You'd be surprised about how much power local politicians even at this level can wield in their own states and this is strictly a bill that would only affect his own state.

ATF should be doing more to keep checks on people but with so many guns in so many hands, I would imagine that's impossible to accomplish.
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jays712
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mlshock35
Jan 28 2014, 09:07 AM
The second amendment was written when we had muskets and sling shots..... so lets not us some common sense and adjust with the times.

Keep in mind, I also think if the NSA wants to listen to my phone conversations or read my texts... they are welcome to do so and will be bored to tears! But thats just me.
Common sense goes out the window when you have an incredibly powerful lobby like the NRA backing these gun guys In political offices with campaign funds. The same NRA that has been bought out by large gun manufacturers that only care about making more money off increased firearm and ammo sales.

I could also care less about what the NSA does. Regardless of what Santry wants to think, there's nothing in my computer or phone that would be deemed over the top by the overwhelming majority of people.
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supercollider7
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Jays, people bring in the constitution and 2nd amendment into this but that's not really what this is about. It's the culture. Americans have a gun culture, especially in the South, that people are proud of. And the thing is, people grow up around guns and they treat guns with respect and there aren't any reckless killings. You would expect, from all the gun-control fear mongering (which is what it ultimately boils down to) that there would be incidents of mass killings everywhere all the time given the number of gun, legel and illegal, registered and unregistered, that people here own. Even here in CT where I work most people I know own a gun and are gun enthusiasts.

And so for me banning guns altogether would never be an option here, and neither would overly restritive regulations. The laws have to reflect the culture otherwise you have situations like Prohibition or the war on drugs where the law just makes innocent people into criminals.

But I do agree that there needs to be stricter policies on who is allowed to own a gun and how you obtain it. Banning assault rifles doesn't do much because most violent gun crimes are committed with simple hand guns, although it may prevent mass school shootings (a seemingly uniquely american phenomenon) like Newtown.

mlshock's solutions are interesting but I don't think you can give some 100% responsibility for a crime committed by their own gun. What if someone steals my car and rams it into a group of children crossing the street? But I agree that in cases of negligence and carelessness they should be held liable.
The argument that "we dont' need" certain types of guns doesn't hold water, either. There's a lot of things people don't need. We don't need a car that goes over 60mph, but we buy them anyway, despite there being no advantage and only a disadvantage in terms of danger to yourself and others. And you don't need to buy a chainsaw either - just call a professional for you tree-cutting needs. The list is very long if you get into the potentially lethal things we own that we don't actually need.

So yeah, I have no idea how to fix it. I don't know if there really is anything to be fixed. I think a lot of gun violence would go away if we ended the ridiculous "war on drugs" and did something to help the poverty striken places in the country.
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dsch15
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jays712
Jan 28 2014, 09:28 AM
mlshock35
Jan 28 2014, 09:07 AM
The second amendment was written when we had muskets and sling shots..... so lets not us some common sense and adjust with the times.

Keep in mind, I also think if the NSA wants to listen to my phone conversations or read my texts... they are welcome to do so and will be bored to tears! But thats just me.
Common sense goes out the window when you have an incredibly powerful lobby like the NRA backing these gun guys In political offices with campaign funds. The same NRA that has been bought out by large gun manufacturers that only care about making more money off increased firearm and ammo sales.

I could also care less about what the NSA does. Regardless of what Santry wants to think, there's nothing in my computer or phone that would be deemed over the top by the overwhelming majority of people.
Reasonable positions on guns here but I'm stunned by your cavalier willingness to toss away your privacy and 4th amendment rights.

The Constitution was written by men whose profound distrust of government finds eloquent expression in the Bill of Rights. They were at pains to circumscribe its power and to protect the individual against the State. Every historical example taught them that unchecked power ended in disaster and they've given us a living document (though not a sacred one, as some would have it) to help us to avoid that fate.

The NSA can keep the fuck out of my business unless and until they can prove they have reasonable grounds for getting into it.
Edited by dsch15, Jan 28 2014, 10:11 AM.
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jays712
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People bring in the 2nd amendment since that's the only leg they have to stand on to make an argument and its a broken leg at best in these times. Yet to some, I'm somehow un-American If I disagree though with what the NRA believes to their interpretation of that amendment..

All the stats show that less guns = less murders not the other way around. This "gun culture" is born out of ignorance to me. Let's all bring guns to the movie theater! Great idea! Problem is I'm really not in the mood to hit the floor when I'm trying to watch Frozen with my nephew and two fools want to have a shootout over movie etiquette.
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jays712
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I understand what you're saying dsch. I'm a bit cavalier about what the NSA does. While not as in-depth as what the NSA does, I'm in the business or prying into people's lives so I guess that colors my view of it. I've built up that opinion over years of being a PI that the only reason you don't want people looking into your life is If you got something to hide. It's not a great opinion to have though.
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mlshock35
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The NSA debate is an interesting one... First of all I do not think the NSA is literally listening to or reading 200million phone calls and txts per day. I think they are scanning for "red flags" such as middle of the night phone calls to Yemen from a parking garage in NYC that initiate wire transfers to bank accounts in the Caymans.... and then they follow up accordingly.

I think THE GOV IS LISTENING!!! plays well in the press and thats what they are running with.

And I am a bit with Jays on this where I have nothing to hide.... Now if the gov knocks on my door and wants to take my phone away and look for stuff, I'd like a warrant and probable cause. If you want to have a random look see that does not disrupt my day to day life.... enjoy... and prepared to be bored into a coma.
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