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OT:Americans and guns
Topic Started: Jan 28 2014, 08:01 AM (619 Views)
jays712
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"Heavy policing" by who? You really think this country is gonna have Brownshirts and the Stasi rounding people up covertly by the thousands?
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supercollider7
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It's clear that JODB's "fascism" isn't following the dictionary definition. Let him define it and then judge his argument by that definition.
Fascism may not be the right word for what JODB is describing, but then force him, or help him, pick a better word. And discuss the idea not the word itself.

Words don't have to have concrete meanings.
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dsch15
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 05:12 PM
dsch15
Jan 28 2014, 05:00 PM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 04:47 PM
Gooner0893
Jan 28 2014, 04:25 PM
I understood that you were referring to corporate fascism. While I agree that corporations control and run things, it's remarkably naive on your part to expect any president from either party to change the culture. And yes, I believe that the word fascism is too strong a word to use when it comes this subject, hence my accusation of melodrama.
And that's somehow not "corporate fascism?" Give yer head a shake.
In any truly fascist state, corporate or otherwise, you'd have been locked up long ago for remarks like this.

Criticize anything you want (your ability to do so is unconstrained by real fascism), but please do us the service of using less shrill propaganda.
And fascism has to be opaque? There aren't varying degrees of fascism?

Just because I'm not locked up for pointing out and criticizing corporate control of my country, doesn't mean that those in control aren't fascists to some degree.

Had they seized and enforced control with guns, we would call them fascists. The fact that they do so with strokes of pens makes them no less so.

The more we reflect upon it, the more comfortable I am with the term "corporate fascism." It may be "shrill" to label it as such, but there is far greater danger in not recognizing this dynamic now, because it certainly represents the slippery slope to militaristic fascism.
And there are degrees of representative democracy - a term which is far closer to the reality in this country than fascism of any stripe. You are welcome to decry the disproportionate influence exerted by the moneyed classes here in the States but when you go banging on about Obama being the willing tool of a fascist regime you sound like the mirror image of those from certain parts of the radio dial who accuse him of being a communist. It's the exaggeration of a propagandist that, rather than persuading the listener to attend to the argument, persuades him to ignore it.

The truth is, he's a pretty middle of the road Democrat.


I should probably refrain from discussing this further until I'm less pissed off by the Southampton result.

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dsch15
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supercollider7
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
It's clear that JODB's "fascism" isn't following the dictionary definition. Let him define it and then judge his argument by that definition.
Fascism may not be the right word for what JODB is describing, but then force him, or help him, pick a better word. And discuss the idea not the word itself.

Words don't have to have concrete meanings.
No, but they are routinely abused by people seeking to trump any counter argument by branding those who support it with a prejudicial label.
Edited by dsch15, Jan 28 2014, 05:38 PM.
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
jays712
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
"Heavy policing" by who? You really think this country is gonna have Brownshirts and the Stasi rounding people up covertly by the thousands?
I don't have to point towards some Hollywood view of an apocalyptic future to find examples of "heavy policing." Are you familiar with want went down at the last two Republican National conventions. Ever hear of Oscar Grant.

I make no apologies for being a canary in this coal mine as there is enough smoke for us all to actually see it. But I'll continue to chirp nonetheless.
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dsch15
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Apologies. Operator malfunction.
Edited by dsch15, Jan 28 2014, 05:39 PM.
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Gooner0893

JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 05:37 PM
jays712
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
"Heavy policing" by who? You really think this country is gonna have Brownshirts and the Stasi rounding people up covertly by the thousands?
I don't have to point towards some Hollywood view of an apocalyptic future to find examples of "heavy policing." Are you familiar with want went down at the last two Republican National conventions. Ever hear of Oscar Grant.

I make no apologies for being a canary in this coal mine as there is enough smoke for us all to actually see it. But I'll continue to chirp nonetheless.
We all know that you will continue to chirp regardless. That's a right that won't be taken away from you. However, chirping and bloviating isn't strengthening your argument. While your premise may have some merit, your over the top use words like fascism is lessening your argument.
Edited by Gooner0893, Jan 28 2014, 05:47 PM.
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
supercollider7
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
It's clear that JODB's "fascism" isn't following the dictionary definition. Let him define it and then judge his argument by that definition.
Fascism may not be the right word for what JODB is describing, but then force him, or help him, pick a better word. And discuss the idea not the word itself.

Words don't have to have concrete meanings.
Thanks, but I'll still continue to attempt to work within the framework provided by the dictionary.

"An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."

We already were quite the nationalistic country before 9/11, but afterwards, those sharp enough to exploit disaster and tragedy took American nationalism to new heights. The narrow framework under which critical discussion about how we shall live and govern is dictated by a bunch of rich punks primarily looking to make themselves richer.

The corporation as we know it is the perfect vessel for fascist aspirations. Corporations have virtually no legal obligations to their communities or their workers. Their only real fiduciary obligation of a corporation is to make profit for its shareholders. Anything that gets in the way of acquisition of wealth is steamrolled over, and that includes way too many hard working as well as jobless and homeless Americans.

The system of governance set up by our forefathers is hostile to both monarchy and fascism. That government has unfortunately been hijacked by folks with agendas aimed at minimizing the power of the people while maximizing their control of most aspects of our daily lives.

Again, just because it's done with pens instead of guns doesn't make it any less fascistic in my mind.
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
Gooner0893
Jan 28 2014, 05:46 PM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 05:37 PM
jays712
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
"Heavy policing" by who? You really think this country is gonna have Brownshirts and the Stasi rounding people up covertly by the thousands?
I don't have to point towards some Hollywood view of an apocalyptic future to find examples of "heavy policing." Are you familiar with want went down at the last two Republican National conventions. Ever hear of Oscar Grant.

I make no apologies for being a canary in this coal mine as there is enough smoke for us all to actually see it. But I'll continue to chirp nonetheless.
We all know that you will continue to chirp regardless. That's a right that won't be taken away from you. However, chirping and bloviating isn't strengthening your argument. While your premise may have some merit, your over the top use words like fascism is lessening your argument.
Articulately defending an unpopular position is far harder and takes much more courage than jumping on board behind others. You wouldn't know too much about that, though.

Now go away and let grown men talk.
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Gooner0893

JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 05:52 PM
Gooner0893
Jan 28 2014, 05:46 PM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Jan 28 2014, 05:37 PM
jays712
Jan 28 2014, 05:34 PM
"Heavy policing" by who? You really think this country is gonna have Brownshirts and the Stasi rounding people up covertly by the thousands?
I don't have to point towards some Hollywood view of an apocalyptic future to find examples of "heavy policing." Are you familiar with want went down at the last two Republican National conventions. Ever hear of Oscar Grant.

I make no apologies for being a canary in this coal mine as there is enough smoke for us all to actually see it. But I'll continue to chirp nonetheless.
We all know that you will continue to chirp regardless. That's a right that won't be taken away from you. However, chirping and bloviating isn't strengthening your argument. While your premise may have some merit, your over the top use words like fascism is lessening your argument.
Articulately defending an unpopular position is far harder and takes much more courage than jumping on board behind others. You wouldn't know too much about that, though.

Now go away and let grown men talk.
Alright Skip Bayless.
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