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Topic Started: Feb 1 2014, 09:19 AM (1,997 Views)
phatosas

rw_mlite2
Feb 1 2014, 07:32 PM
At this point, I'm hoping they give Moyes ALL the time he needs!

Being serious, though, this is one of the pitfalls of hiring these conservative managers that got more than the sum of their parts at previous clubs. They don't seem to know what to do when they have actual talent. We saw the same thing with Martin O'Neill. In contrast, look at guys like Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers. They played an attacking (to be fair, some might call naive when they're at lower level clubs) style while also proving to be adaptable.
Another guy that has really impressed me is Gus Poyet. From the first game his team played you could just see he had an idea of how he wanted his team to play. Watching them play today, you could just see the players are buying into it and having so much fun. The player he signed in the January window (a defensive midfielder) started today and he was brilliant.
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rw_mlite2
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phatosas
Feb 1 2014, 08:01 PM
rw_mlite2
Feb 1 2014, 07:32 PM
At this point, I'm hoping they give Moyes ALL the time he needs!

Being serious, though, this is one of the pitfalls of hiring these conservative managers that got more than the sum of their parts at previous clubs. They don't seem to know what to do when they have actual talent. We saw the same thing with Martin O'Neill. In contrast, look at guys like Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers. They played an attacking (to be fair, some might call naive when they're at lower level clubs) style while also proving to be adaptable.
Another guy that has really impressed me is Gus Poyet. From the first game his team played you could just see he had an idea of how he wanted his team to play. Watching them play today, you could just see the players are buying into it and having so much fun. The player he signed in the January window (a defensive midfielder) started today and he was brilliant.
Now, if only he could get Altidore to start scoring!
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santry_gooner
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rw_mlite2
Feb 1 2014, 07:32 PM
At this point, I'm hoping they give Moyes ALL the time he needs!

Being serious, though, this is one of the pitfalls of hiring these conservative managers that got more than the sum of their parts at previous clubs. They don't seem to know what to do when they have actual talent. We saw the same thing with Martin O'Neill. In contrast, look at guys like Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers. They played an attacking (to be fair, some might call naive when they're at lower level clubs) style while also proving to be adaptable.
I would agree with O'Neill in that category when he was at Sunderland, but only there. At Villa O'Neill over performed and was never given the money he needed to assemble the correct attacking players. At Leicester and Celtic all he seemed to want to do was attack. There was never an issue of him not knowing what to do with attacking players.

Martinez and Rogers both play pressing games to some extent. Rogers extracts a massive work rate out of players to retain and recycle the ball, but if anything I thought he changed that at Liverpool (but what he did at Swansea was so good that Laudrup didn't even change it). Martinez is the one of these two with the real tactical talent. He presses up from the back and gives his wide players (Baines and Coleman) more attacking than defensive responsibilities. He plays two lines in midfield which aren't that bad at just passing an opposition to death with short stuff. Sometimes when a guy like Martinez arrives at a club the players are overjoyed to be releases from the shackles of the previous regime (if they have it in them). Then look at what happened to AVB...

Anyway if you are looking for a successor to Wenger I would love to hear it was Martinez. The sad thing is that he will probably not be at Everton very long and Wenger has a good few years to go.
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santry_gooner
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On Moyes: yes he is defensively minded.

But at the same time the Ferguson squad was full of rotten apples / grandads who are not as good as they looked last year. I said what most pundits are now saying (but I said it back in September). United need a clear out. Mata is great acquisition but is only the start of what's necessary.
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billabog5
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santry_gooner
Feb 2 2014, 03:16 AM
On Moyes: yes he is defensively minded.

But at the same time the Ferguson squad was full of rotten apples / grandads who are not as good as they looked last year. I said what most pundits are now saying (but I said it back in September). United need a clear out. Mata is great acquisition but is only the start of what's necessary.
The team that played against Stoke was a young team & the team won the title by 12 points last season & that was after switching off for the last month. too much is made of this " clear out" , you simply cannot win the prem title with a crap team. There are areas that can be improved & a couple of players who need to be moved on, but generally, apart from CM, the team is full of quality

CM is, & has been Utd's achilles heel for a while now. SAF never addressed it & neither has Moyes. Stoke showed today that having a CM who can influence the game at either end is a priceless commodity. Charlie Adam, for all his faults, is a very talented footballer & he won that game for Stoke whilst Utd's duo of Cleverley & Carrick did nothing . Carrick actually looks better & more comfortable as a CB
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santry_gooner
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billabog5
Feb 2 2014, 04:38 AM
santry_gooner
Feb 2 2014, 03:16 AM
On Moyes: yes he is defensively minded.

But at the same time the Ferguson squad was full of rotten apples / grandads who are not as good as they looked last year. I said what most pundits are now saying (but I said it back in September). United need a clear out. Mata is great acquisition but is only the start of what's necessary.
The team that played against Stoke was a young team & the team won the title by 12 points last season & that was after switching off for the last month. too much is made of this " clear out" , you simply cannot win the prem title with a crap team. There are areas that can be improved & a couple of players who need to be moved on, but generally, apart from CM, the team is full of quality

CM is, & has been Utd's achilles heel for a while now. SAF never addressed it & neither has Moyes. Stoke showed today that having a CM who can influence the game at either end is a priceless commodity. Charlie Adam, for all his faults, is a very talented footballer & he won that game for Stoke whilst Utd's duo of Cleverley & Carrick did nothing . Carrick actually looks better & more comfortable as a CB
It's all about timing Bog. The timing of the older players was one where (you said it) they discovered great form and yes, played well. But for a limited time (November to March). The energy of the younger players contributed to a high energy input in games which is fine, and shows the technical ability levels of a mid-table team. There are a ton of players like them in the EPL, who can play well when they are on the up and surrounded by experience and people who take responsibility. And Van Per$ie: a guaranteed 20 goal a season man if he stays reasonably fit. Ferguson himself said that to win the league you need only 8 top players. The other three just have to understand their roles. Credit to him for eking out one last performance against opposition who had all their own problems.

However, as is so often the case the window of good form that older players can show like this is one that you cannot stop the hand of time closing. And one year later it will take a short time to close completely. Ferdinand was gone, as early as Spring last year. Evra went this season. Giggs was gone 2 years ago, except as a sub. There's a year, at most, in Vidic at this level. Rooney is playing for himself now, should be with Chelsea next year. Carrick never really adapted his game beyond when he was 22, even though he's useful. The rest deserve time to prove they aren't shite, which is what they look at times. But the older ones need a clear out. There's also a gang load of players who are shite: Valencia, Nani and Young for prominent examples.
Edited by santry_gooner, Feb 2 2014, 08:00 AM.
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chillyheat

pool going ahead thru suarez/sturridge combo.
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chillyheat

sturridge has 28 goals in 34 games. quite remarkable.
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jays712
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chillyheat
Feb 2 2014, 09:33 AM
sturridge has 28 goals in 34 games. quite remarkable.
Suarez and Sturridge make quite the duo. Just shows how good Mert/Kosc have been to lock them down completely when we played them.
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dsch15
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Kolo Toure sets up the equalizer with a sumptuous assist. That can't have been part of Rodgers' game plan.
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