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Arsenal vs. Dinamo Zagreb
Topic Started: Sep 16 2015, 12:51 PM (1,172 Views)
cruyff_turn
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ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 11:47 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 17 2015, 10:54 AM
dsch15
Sep 17 2015, 10:30 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 16 2015, 07:32 PM
Plain and simple, Wenger, the players, the supporters and most of the footballing world took Dinamo too lightly. Wenger thought he could get away with Arteta for Le Coq among other changes. The players were lulled into a sense of false confidence by the ease with which they were operating early in the match. And none of us saw this coming, particularly the meltdown of the BLF.

Arsenal was the better football team that shot themselves in the foot repeatedly today. I saw all those Gunners standing in front of the goal on that header. Sure, I guess that they were covering their zones, but if just one had been sticking to the jersey of the scorer, that nail in the coffin could have been avoided.

Changed side or no, everyone, players and coaches alike, needs to look themselves in the mirror and candidly assess their focus and decision making. Some serious soul searching and recommitment will be necessary to have this group ready for success against Chelski on Saturday.
Save this. With a few name changes I'm sure you'll be able to use it at least a couple of more times this season. This club produces far too many of this kind of performance.
Acknowledging, of course, that Wenger is my lord and master, I'm gonna offer him some advice that I gave him a few years ago.

Scare 'em!

If ever there was an opportunity to play bad cop to the good cop that he normally portrays, this is it. As you mention, what happened yesterday was something that is far too familiar. I wouldn't let Giroud back into training, let alone on to the pitch, until he offered a sincere apology to the entire team. I would reinforce that with a hefty fine and a few weeks duty as an equipment boy. His selfish and stupid behavior was akin to Diaby at Castle for me.

The rest of the side needs to be put on notice that absent full matches of concentration and top tier effort, match time is not available no matter how much was spent to acquire any player. At the end of the Stoke match, I saw Wenger screaming at Ozil for another shit job of tracking back, and then the German was substituted a few minutes later. It was my hope that Wenger had decided right then to pull Ozil and that it was not a scheduled substitution.

The players need a reminder that they are paid handsomely for the privilege of wearing the best looking kit on the planet, and that none of them will be spared having their asses nailed to the bench if they can't maintain focus during every second they are on the pitch.
To me Wenger brought this on himself with the squad he selected and the lack of summer fortifications, not just in the obvious ways, as it would be clearly nice to have a competent striker and an actual athlete that can cover the DM spot when Coquelin is absent or needs rest, those are clear. The problem is the message that those actions conveyed to the team: 1) with the squad selection: This is going to be a walkover, we don't even need Ramsey or Bellerin on the plane; just go out there and Zagreb with shriek with fear and we'll nab a few goals and skate out of Croatia. 2) with the lack of signings: Don't worry Giroud your spot is safe no matter how horrible your attitude is on and off the pitch, just don't blow all of your scoring chances.... You could really see it from the off yesterday, the lads (save Sanchez who always at least looks the part) looked like they were sleepwalking and disengaged.

I'm all for reading them the riot act for all the good it would do, but I think the problem is much more ingrained than you can yell out of the squad...
Seems like you're scapegoating Arteta. Debuchy, Ox and Gibbs responsible for the goals?
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
Again, all of us, supporters, pundits, manager and players, got it wrong. I have been known to emphasize some physicality in the midfield, but I said nada prior to the match because I thought that the gulf in class and depth between the two squads was so wide that it couldn't be crossed.

Hell, even the Dinamo manager seemed resigned to taking a loss with the way he had his boys sit back and soak up massive pressure. Then he told the lads to get after them, and in doing so, he exposed the Gunners' soft center, both figuratively and literally.

It's certainly on Wenger and the rest of us for taking Zagreb too lightly, but once many of the players got punched in the mouth, they responded with panic rather than poise.

If this match can't serve as a lesson for the team, nothing can.
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
I have been a fan and at times an ardent supporter of The Ox, but, for me, he is the most frustrating player in the side. Rarely do we look at his overall performance in a match and call it crap. He offers so much and he is so dangerous, in fact we most often give him high marks for his performance. But FAR too often, solid contributions over the course of a match are cancelled out by one moment of unawareness or silliness.

He needs to have a meeting Wenger's Mr. Hyde at some point. How about now?
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ngrendel3
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cruyff_turn
Sep 17 2015, 12:22 PM
ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 11:47 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 17 2015, 10:54 AM
dsch15
Sep 17 2015, 10:30 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 16 2015, 07:32 PM
Plain and simple, Wenger, the players, the supporters and most of the footballing world took Dinamo too lightly. Wenger thought he could get away with Arteta for Le Coq among other changes. The players were lulled into a sense of false confidence by the ease with which they were operating early in the match. And none of us saw this coming, particularly the meltdown of the BLF.

Arsenal was the better football team that shot themselves in the foot repeatedly today. I saw all those Gunners standing in front of the goal on that header. Sure, I guess that they were covering their zones, but if just one had been sticking to the jersey of the scorer, that nail in the coffin could have been avoided.

Changed side or no, everyone, players and coaches alike, needs to look themselves in the mirror and candidly assess their focus and decision making. Some serious soul searching and recommitment will be necessary to have this group ready for success against Chelski on Saturday.
Save this. With a few name changes I'm sure you'll be able to use it at least a couple of more times this season. This club produces far too many of this kind of performance.
Acknowledging, of course, that Wenger is my lord and master, I'm gonna offer him some advice that I gave him a few years ago.

Scare 'em!

If ever there was an opportunity to play bad cop to the good cop that he normally portrays, this is it. As you mention, what happened yesterday was something that is far too familiar. I wouldn't let Giroud back into training, let alone on to the pitch, until he offered a sincere apology to the entire team. I would reinforce that with a hefty fine and a few weeks duty as an equipment boy. His selfish and stupid behavior was akin to Diaby at Castle for me.

The rest of the side needs to be put on notice that absent full matches of concentration and top tier effort, match time is not available no matter how much was spent to acquire any player. At the end of the Stoke match, I saw Wenger screaming at Ozil for another shit job of tracking back, and then the German was substituted a few minutes later. It was my hope that Wenger had decided right then to pull Ozil and that it was not a scheduled substitution.

The players need a reminder that they are paid handsomely for the privilege of wearing the best looking kit on the planet, and that none of them will be spared having their asses nailed to the bench if they can't maintain focus during every second they are on the pitch.
To me Wenger brought this on himself with the squad he selected and the lack of summer fortifications, not just in the obvious ways, as it would be clearly nice to have a competent striker and an actual athlete that can cover the DM spot when Coquelin is absent or needs rest, those are clear. The problem is the message that those actions conveyed to the team: 1) with the squad selection: This is going to be a walkover, we don't even need Ramsey or Bellerin on the plane; just go out there and Zagreb with shriek with fear and we'll nab a few goals and skate out of Croatia. 2) with the lack of signings: Don't worry Giroud your spot is safe no matter how horrible your attitude is on and off the pitch, just don't blow all of your scoring chances.... You could really see it from the off yesterday, the lads (save Sanchez who always at least looks the part) looked like they were sleepwalking and disengaged.

I'm all for reading them the riot act for all the good it would do, but I think the problem is much more ingrained than you can yell out of the squad...
Seems like you're scapegoating Arteta. Debuchy, Ox and Gibbs responsible for the goals?
I would prefer the term assigning responsibility, but nevertheless.... I really don't blame any player, save Giroud, specifically for the defeat, the Ox had a moment switched off and got burned for it... The problem this year has been a general malaise and lack killer instinct amongst the entire squad (save, maybe, Coquelin) and that goes to Wenger.

I do think Coquelin's inclusion from the get go yesterday would have helped, the position he takes up may have prevented the first goal by breaking up the attack, Arteta is just no longer capable of covering that space.... He may never have been. I think specifically yesterday we saw an overall lack of midfield athleticism on display from the Arsenal, no matter what the attitude of the players I'm not sure they have legs to get where they needed to be. Wenger should be able to recognize that.
Edited by ngrendel3, Sep 17 2015, 01:16 PM.
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rw_mlite2
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ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 12:52 PM
cruyff_turn
Sep 17 2015, 12:22 PM
ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 11:47 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 17 2015, 10:54 AM
dsch15
Sep 17 2015, 10:30 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 16 2015, 07:32 PM
Plain and simple, Wenger, the players, the supporters and most of the footballing world took Dinamo too lightly. Wenger thought he could get away with Arteta for Le Coq among other changes. The players were lulled into a sense of false confidence by the ease with which they were operating early in the match. And none of us saw this coming, particularly the meltdown of the BLF.

Arsenal was the better football team that shot themselves in the foot repeatedly today. I saw all those Gunners standing in front of the goal on that header. Sure, I guess that they were covering their zones, but if just one had been sticking to the jersey of the scorer, that nail in the coffin could have been avoided.

Changed side or no, everyone, players and coaches alike, needs to look themselves in the mirror and candidly assess their focus and decision making. Some serious soul searching and recommitment will be necessary to have this group ready for success against Chelski on Saturday.
Save this. With a few name changes I'm sure you'll be able to use it at least a couple of more times this season. This club produces far too many of this kind of performance.
Acknowledging, of course, that Wenger is my lord and master, I'm gonna offer him some advice that I gave him a few years ago.

Scare 'em!

If ever there was an opportunity to play bad cop to the good cop that he normally portrays, this is it. As you mention, what happened yesterday was something that is far too familiar. I wouldn't let Giroud back into training, let alone on to the pitch, until he offered a sincere apology to the entire team. I would reinforce that with a hefty fine and a few weeks duty as an equipment boy. His selfish and stupid behavior was akin to Diaby at Castle for me.

The rest of the side needs to be put on notice that absent full matches of concentration and top tier effort, match time is not available no matter how much was spent to acquire any player. At the end of the Stoke match, I saw Wenger screaming at Ozil for another shit job of tracking back, and then the German was substituted a few minutes later. It was my hope that Wenger had decided right then to pull Ozil and that it was not a scheduled substitution.

The players need a reminder that they are paid handsomely for the privilege of wearing the best looking kit on the planet, and that none of them will be spared having their asses nailed to the bench if they can't maintain focus during every second they are on the pitch.
To me Wenger brought this on himself with the squad he selected and the lack of summer fortifications, not just in the obvious ways, as it would be clearly nice to have a competent striker and an actual athlete that can cover the DM spot when Coquelin is absent or needs rest, those are clear. The problem is the message that those actions conveyed to the team: 1) with the squad selection: This is going to be a walkover, we don't even need Ramsey or Bellerin on the plane; just go out there and Zagreb with shriek with fear and we'll nab a few goals and skate out of Croatia. 2) with the lack of signings: Don't worry Giroud your spot is safe no matter how horrible your attitude is on and off the pitch, just don't blow all of your scoring chances.... You could really see it from the off yesterday, the lads (save Sanchez who always at least looks the part) looked like they were sleepwalking and disengaged.

I'm all for reading them the riot act for all the good it would do, but I think the problem is much more ingrained than you can yell out of the squad...
Seems like you're scapegoating Arteta. Debuchy, Ox and Gibbs responsible for the goals?
I would prefer the term assigning responsibility, but nevertheless.... I really don't blame any player, save Giroud, specifically for the defeat, the Ox had a moment switched off and got burned for it... The problem this year has been a general malaise and lack killer instinct amongst the entire squad (save, maybe, Coquelin) and that goes to Wenger.

I do think Coquelin's inclusion from the get go yesterday would have helped, the position he takes up may have prevented the first goal by breaking up the attack, Arteta is just no longer capable of covering that space.... He may never have been. I think specifically yesterday we saw an overall lack of midfield athleticism on display from the Arsenal, no matter what the attitude of the players I'm not sure they have legs to get where they needed to be. Wenger should be able to recognize that.
Agreed
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JustOneDennisBergkamp
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JODB
rw_mlite2
Sep 17 2015, 01:29 PM
ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 12:52 PM
cruyff_turn
Sep 17 2015, 12:22 PM
ngrendel3
Sep 17 2015, 11:47 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 17 2015, 10:54 AM
dsch15
Sep 17 2015, 10:30 AM
JustOneDennisBergkamp
Sep 16 2015, 07:32 PM
Plain and simple, Wenger, the players, the supporters and most of the footballing world took Dinamo too lightly. Wenger thought he could get away with Arteta for Le Coq among other changes. The players were lulled into a sense of false confidence by the ease with which they were operating early in the match. And none of us saw this coming, particularly the meltdown of the BLF.

Arsenal was the better football team that shot themselves in the foot repeatedly today. I saw all those Gunners standing in front of the goal on that header. Sure, I guess that they were covering their zones, but if just one had been sticking to the jersey of the scorer, that nail in the coffin could have been avoided.

Changed side or no, everyone, players and coaches alike, needs to look themselves in the mirror and candidly assess their focus and decision making. Some serious soul searching and recommitment will be necessary to have this group ready for success against Chelski on Saturday.
Save this. With a few name changes I'm sure you'll be able to use it at least a couple of more times this season. This club produces far too many of this kind of performance.
Acknowledging, of course, that Wenger is my lord and master, I'm gonna offer him some advice that I gave him a few years ago.

Scare 'em!

If ever there was an opportunity to play bad cop to the good cop that he normally portrays, this is it. As you mention, what happened yesterday was something that is far too familiar. I wouldn't let Giroud back into training, let alone on to the pitch, until he offered a sincere apology to the entire team. I would reinforce that with a hefty fine and a few weeks duty as an equipment boy. His selfish and stupid behavior was akin to Diaby at Castle for me.

The rest of the side needs to be put on notice that absent full matches of concentration and top tier effort, match time is not available no matter how much was spent to acquire any player. At the end of the Stoke match, I saw Wenger screaming at Ozil for another shit job of tracking back, and then the German was substituted a few minutes later. It was my hope that Wenger had decided right then to pull Ozil and that it was not a scheduled substitution.

The players need a reminder that they are paid handsomely for the privilege of wearing the best looking kit on the planet, and that none of them will be spared having their asses nailed to the bench if they can't maintain focus during every second they are on the pitch.
To me Wenger brought this on himself with the squad he selected and the lack of summer fortifications, not just in the obvious ways, as it would be clearly nice to have a competent striker and an actual athlete that can cover the DM spot when Coquelin is absent or needs rest, those are clear. The problem is the message that those actions conveyed to the team: 1) with the squad selection: This is going to be a walkover, we don't even need Ramsey or Bellerin on the plane; just go out there and Zagreb with shriek with fear and we'll nab a few goals and skate out of Croatia. 2) with the lack of signings: Don't worry Giroud your spot is safe no matter how horrible your attitude is on and off the pitch, just don't blow all of your scoring chances.... You could really see it from the off yesterday, the lads (save Sanchez who always at least looks the part) looked like they were sleepwalking and disengaged.

I'm all for reading them the riot act for all the good it would do, but I think the problem is much more ingrained than you can yell out of the squad...
Seems like you're scapegoating Arteta. Debuchy, Ox and Gibbs responsible for the goals?
I would prefer the term assigning responsibility, but nevertheless.... I really don't blame any player, save Giroud, specifically for the defeat, the Ox had a moment switched off and got burned for it... The problem this year has been a general malaise and lack killer instinct amongst the entire squad (save, maybe, Coquelin) and that goes to Wenger.

I do think Coquelin's inclusion from the get go yesterday would have helped, the position he takes up may have prevented the first goal by breaking up the attack, Arteta is just no longer capable of covering that space.... He may never have been. I think specifically yesterday we saw an overall lack of midfield athleticism on display from the Arsenal, no matter what the attitude of the players I'm not sure they have legs to get where they needed to be. Wenger should be able to recognize that.
Agreed
If you look at the rotation that took place in Zagreb, the position that experienced the greatest drop off overall was the midfield. Alexis, The BLF and The Ox certainly looked like they would be more than dangerous enough. Despite their parts in the calamity that evening, the FBs are arguably interchangeable with those in front of them, and we all know from the constant promotion he has received on this forum that Ospina is the man. But taking away the player (Le Coq) who's physicality and attitude has allowed his more creative mates to take chances proved to be a key decision that Dinamo exploited.

It was the midfielders who were successfully harassed the most. Ozil, Arteta and Cazorla had been cruising with their ball movement, but the moment they were gotten after, all hell broke loose. That was a midfield that was begging to be overrun, but again, everyone thought the gulf in class was so great that just about any deployment should have been successful. That is a changed midfield (though The Ox and Ozil often switched) that wouldn't be trotted out against the lowliest Prem team at The Emirates. Like I said, everyone got caught out on this one.
Edited by JustOneDennisBergkamp, Sep 18 2015, 12:04 PM.
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East German Gooner

Owner was in jail. The ref gave 2 soft yellow to our main striker, now a player tested positive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3264123/Dinamo-Zagreb-star-Arijan-Ademi-fails-drug-test-following-Champions-League-win-Arsenal.html
Wow that's why soccer is only confined to the developing countries.
We should appeal the 3 points but get ready for a major scandal to break out that the world's most beloved sport to shut down indefinitely. I don't mind that at all, there is always horse racing and womens tennis to watch. Eff soccer.
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tallsmile28
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East German Gooner
Oct 7 2015, 05:39 PM
Owner was in jail. The ref gave 2 soft yellow to our main striker, now a player tested positive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3264123/Dinamo-Zagreb-star-Arijan-Ademi-fails-drug-test-following-Champions-League-win-Arsenal.html
Wow that's why soccer is only confined to the developing countries.
We should appeal the 3 points but get ready for a major scandal to break out that the world's most beloved sport to shut down indefinitely. I don't mind that at all, there is always horse racing and womens tennis to watch. Eff soccer.
Eff soccer? We are about to go on a magnificent run in the EPL. Eff the CL. Send the reserves to Europa and go win the Premiership!!!
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