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New Suarez Development
Topic Started: Jul 24 2013, 09:44 AM (1,966 Views)
santry_gooner
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Just noticed this "The Spanish club's mouthpiece, newspaper Marca, claim the club won't sign Suarez "even if he begged" in this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-arsenal-must-pay-british-record-transfer-fee-of-50m-for-luis-suarez--but-real-madrid-wont-sign-the-liverpool-striker-even-if-he-begged-8731992.html
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phatosas

santry_gooner
Jul 25 2013, 01:10 PM
TransferMarkt puts Suarez at 40m book value. That takes into account all the positives he has on his side and none of the negatives. If you ask me 35 million is the actual value, give or take. The issue we are up against if we want him (and I don't) are:

- his indiscipline will cost the team, meaning he has to get 25 goals
- he isn't optimally suited to being the pinnacle of a 3 man attack
The second issue you mentioned is the exact reason why I am surprised we are obsessed with signing him. We saw how reluctant Wenger was to play Walcott there and how it didnt work the few games we tried it. Unless we are going to play a 4-4-2, playing a little guy that cant play with his back towards goal just doesnt look like it would work.
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cruyff_turn
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phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 02:03 PM
santry_gooner
Jul 25 2013, 01:10 PM
TransferMarkt puts Suarez at 40m book value. That takes into account all the positives he has on his side and none of the negatives. If you ask me 35 million is the actual value, give or take. The issue we are up against if we want him (and I don't) are:

- his indiscipline will cost the team, meaning he has to get 25 goals
- he isn't optimally suited to being the pinnacle of a 3 man attack
The second issue you mentioned is the exact reason why I am surprised we are obsessed with signing him. We saw how reluctant Wenger was to play Walcott there and how it didnt work the few games we tried it. Unless we are going to play a 4-4-2, playing a little guy that cant play with his back towards goal just doesnt look like it would work.
From what I've seen, Suarez is well-equipped to handle the role. He holds the ball up a lot better than Walcott. Hell, he holds the ball up better than Giroud.
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cruyff_turn
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santry_gooner
Jul 25 2013, 01:59 PM
Yeah I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Promising news.
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jays712
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Can't compare the RVP sale with this buy. RVP flat out said, "I'm not signing a new deal." Which meant he was leaving in one more year. That has a huge affect on what we can get for him.
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Gooner0893

cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 01:23 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 12:37 PM
cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 12:24 PM
I'd still have Rooney, Aguero, and RvP ahead of Suarez in the pecking order of top EPL strikers, but no others.
No way I would have Rooney and RVP ahead of Suarez going forward. Based on past accomplishment, yes. But right now and going forward, Suarez is absolutely more valuable than those two players.
I'd still take RvP or Rooney over Suarez for the next two seasons. Beyond that, I agree with you. Obviously, a player's value differs from his quality, so maybe we're having two different arguments.
We can agree to disagree. I would take him over RVP and Rooney in the next two seasons. RVP is 30 and injury prone. Rooney has been playing at the highest level in the physical Premiership since the age of 16. Suarez it is for me.
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Gooner0893

phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 01:26 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 11:27 AM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 07:15 AM
dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 04:19 AM
rta_67
Jul 24 2013, 01:39 PM
If successful, Suarez will be a brilliant and versatile attacking player who can be position anywhere in the front 3. He will definitely contribute goals and assists in the double digits and that will go a long way towards helping us get silverware this season. Heck, RVP probably single handedly gave United the title last year! I could care less about his character issues as long as they remain in the past and I definitely feel it is a risk worth taking. With all due respect, Higuain is a good player but he is just no where near the proven quality of Suarez. In fact, for an attacking player, only Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and Bale are ahead of him in my opinion and yes he is better than RVP who himself was not exactly a saint when we bought him! I just don't get it with people complaining about this move to acquire the guy. My only regret would be if we do not succeed.
Actually you can't even say Neymar is better than suarez, he is yet to prove himself in the european league, and I would be more confident with suarez in my side than Neymar, Neymar is no where as strong as suarez, and he still make a lot of wrong decision. With Suarez I know what I'm getting, a striker capable of scoring 30 goals with 11 assists, in a team that finished 8TH in the premier league.
The difference between signing Neymar for that fee and signing Suarez is that with Neymar you are signing a player with the potential to be the best footballer in the world. It is a gamble but it is high risk and high reward for Barcelona. It is similar to when Barca signed Ronaldinho and he went on to transform the club and transcend the sport. He not only changed the clubs fortunes on the pitch, he went on to be a symbol for the club. The monetary reward for signing Ronaldinho was 10 times what Barcelona paid for him and his value on the pitch was worth having 3 players because he made every one around him good. Now I dont even think Suarez is the best player in his position in the premiership let alone world. We pretty much know how good he is at this point. If you talk of financial benefits to the club, we are talking of a guy that is a racist and bites other players, if that the guy you really want to be the flag bearer for the club?
Phato, not a Suarez fan but who is better than him in the EPL? Aguero? They are at the same level. 40 mil absolutely makes sense for Suarez in today's market. He is capable of carrying a team as he has done so for Pool. They are few such players. He is also a free kick specialist in addition to being a really good assist provider. Which premiership players do you have ahead of him? Rooney? Nope. The 30 year old RVP? Nope. Lets mot even talk about Torres. Aguero and Suarez are on the same level. Not a fan of his personality (his histrionics against Ghana still sting) but I would absolutely welcome the player to Arsenal for over 40 mil.
Who is better than him in the Premier League? Van Persie, the same guy we sold for 25mil to our rivals Manchester United. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that Suarez is better than Van Persie, Last season they both scored 30 goals. If you want to argue that Van Persie played for Manchester United last year, well Van Persie scored 37 the year before for Arsenal and has scored 20 goals twice for Arsenal despite being injured a lot in his career. I can bet there is no way Suarez scores 37 goals next season where ever he ends up playing at. I am glad you brought up Aguerro who is a similar player to Suarez, in fact I would argue that Aguerro is a more skillful player. He scored 30 his first season at Man City and everybody paid attention to him and he couldnt replicate it scoring only 17 goals. I have a feeling that the same fate awaits Suarez this coming season, teams are going to be focused on how to stop him and I dont think he is unstoppable.

As for the claim that we would win the league if we sign Suarez, if Van Persie had stayed at Arsenal last season, would we have won the league? We need at least 3-4 players to make this step to cover the 20 point gap we were between the eventual winners. If we waste 40 mil on Suarez, I wonder how much more improvement we can make with what we have left to spend.
I disagree. Suarez played fewer games than RVP and scored the same amount of goal. He is a first class free kick specialist ahead of the likes of Rooney and RVP who are pretty good in that department. He plays on a team where he is overly relied upon and still produced the goods. Yes, he very capable of scoring 37 goals in a season if he gets the type of service RVP got at Arsenal. He is also 4 years younger than RVP which means that he is in his footballing prime.
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cruyff_turn
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Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 02:42 PM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 01:26 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 11:27 AM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 07:15 AM
dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 04:19 AM
rta_67
Jul 24 2013, 01:39 PM
If successful, Suarez will be a brilliant and versatile attacking player who can be position anywhere in the front 3. He will definitely contribute goals and assists in the double digits and that will go a long way towards helping us get silverware this season. Heck, RVP probably single handedly gave United the title last year! I could care less about his character issues as long as they remain in the past and I definitely feel it is a risk worth taking. With all due respect, Higuain is a good player but he is just no where near the proven quality of Suarez. In fact, for an attacking player, only Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and Bale are ahead of him in my opinion and yes he is better than RVP who himself was not exactly a saint when we bought him! I just don't get it with people complaining about this move to acquire the guy. My only regret would be if we do not succeed.
Actually you can't even say Neymar is better than suarez, he is yet to prove himself in the european league, and I would be more confident with suarez in my side than Neymar, Neymar is no where as strong as suarez, and he still make a lot of wrong decision. With Suarez I know what I'm getting, a striker capable of scoring 30 goals with 11 assists, in a team that finished 8TH in the premier league.
The difference between signing Neymar for that fee and signing Suarez is that with Neymar you are signing a player with the potential to be the best footballer in the world. It is a gamble but it is high risk and high reward for Barcelona. It is similar to when Barca signed Ronaldinho and he went on to transform the club and transcend the sport. He not only changed the clubs fortunes on the pitch, he went on to be a symbol for the club. The monetary reward for signing Ronaldinho was 10 times what Barcelona paid for him and his value on the pitch was worth having 3 players because he made every one around him good. Now I dont even think Suarez is the best player in his position in the premiership let alone world. We pretty much know how good he is at this point. If you talk of financial benefits to the club, we are talking of a guy that is a racist and bites other players, if that the guy you really want to be the flag bearer for the club?
Phato, not a Suarez fan but who is better than him in the EPL? Aguero? They are at the same level. 40 mil absolutely makes sense for Suarez in today's market. He is capable of carrying a team as he has done so for Pool. They are few such players. He is also a free kick specialist in addition to being a really good assist provider. Which premiership players do you have ahead of him? Rooney? Nope. The 30 year old RVP? Nope. Lets mot even talk about Torres. Aguero and Suarez are on the same level. Not a fan of his personality (his histrionics against Ghana still sting) but I would absolutely welcome the player to Arsenal for over 40 mil.
Who is better than him in the Premier League? Van Persie, the same guy we sold for 25mil to our rivals Manchester United. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that Suarez is better than Van Persie, Last season they both scored 30 goals. If you want to argue that Van Persie played for Manchester United last year, well Van Persie scored 37 the year before for Arsenal and has scored 20 goals twice for Arsenal despite being injured a lot in his career. I can bet there is no way Suarez scores 37 goals next season where ever he ends up playing at. I am glad you brought up Aguerro who is a similar player to Suarez, in fact I would argue that Aguerro is a more skillful player. He scored 30 his first season at Man City and everybody paid attention to him and he couldnt replicate it scoring only 17 goals. I have a feeling that the same fate awaits Suarez this coming season, teams are going to be focused on how to stop him and I dont think he is unstoppable.

As for the claim that we would win the league if we sign Suarez, if Van Persie had stayed at Arsenal last season, would we have won the league? We need at least 3-4 players to make this step to cover the 20 point gap we were between the eventual winners. If we waste 40 mil on Suarez, I wonder how much more improvement we can make with what we have left to spend.
I disagree. Suarez played fewer games than RVP and scored the same amount of goal. He is a first class free kick specialist ahead of the likes of Rooney and RVP who are pretty good in that department. He plays on a team where he is overly relied upon and still produced the goods. Yes, he very capable of scoring 37 goals in a season if he gets the type of service RVP got at Arsenal. He is also 4 years younger than RVP which means that he is in his footballing prime.
Suarez also needed about twice as many shots to score the same amount of goals.
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Gooner0893

cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 02:45 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 02:42 PM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 01:26 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 11:27 AM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 07:15 AM
dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 04:19 AM
rta_67
Jul 24 2013, 01:39 PM
If successful, Suarez will be a brilliant and versatile attacking player who can be position anywhere in the front 3. He will definitely contribute goals and assists in the double digits and that will go a long way towards helping us get silverware this season. Heck, RVP probably single handedly gave United the title last year! I could care less about his character issues as long as they remain in the past and I definitely feel it is a risk worth taking. With all due respect, Higuain is a good player but he is just no where near the proven quality of Suarez. In fact, for an attacking player, only Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and Bale are ahead of him in my opinion and yes he is better than RVP who himself was not exactly a saint when we bought him! I just don't get it with people complaining about this move to acquire the guy. My only regret would be if we do not succeed.
Actually you can't even say Neymar is better than suarez, he is yet to prove himself in the european league, and I would be more confident with suarez in my side than Neymar, Neymar is no where as strong as suarez, and he still make a lot of wrong decision. With Suarez I know what I'm getting, a striker capable of scoring 30 goals with 11 assists, in a team that finished 8TH in the premier league.
The difference between signing Neymar for that fee and signing Suarez is that with Neymar you are signing a player with the potential to be the best footballer in the world. It is a gamble but it is high risk and high reward for Barcelona. It is similar to when Barca signed Ronaldinho and he went on to transform the club and transcend the sport. He not only changed the clubs fortunes on the pitch, he went on to be a symbol for the club. The monetary reward for signing Ronaldinho was 10 times what Barcelona paid for him and his value on the pitch was worth having 3 players because he made every one around him good. Now I dont even think Suarez is the best player in his position in the premiership let alone world. We pretty much know how good he is at this point. If you talk of financial benefits to the club, we are talking of a guy that is a racist and bites other players, if that the guy you really want to be the flag bearer for the club?
Phato, not a Suarez fan but who is better than him in the EPL? Aguero? They are at the same level. 40 mil absolutely makes sense for Suarez in today's market. He is capable of carrying a team as he has done so for Pool. They are few such players. He is also a free kick specialist in addition to being a really good assist provider. Which premiership players do you have ahead of him? Rooney? Nope. The 30 year old RVP? Nope. Lets mot even talk about Torres. Aguero and Suarez are on the same level. Not a fan of his personality (his histrionics against Ghana still sting) but I would absolutely welcome the player to Arsenal for over 40 mil.
Who is better than him in the Premier League? Van Persie, the same guy we sold for 25mil to our rivals Manchester United. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that Suarez is better than Van Persie, Last season they both scored 30 goals. If you want to argue that Van Persie played for Manchester United last year, well Van Persie scored 37 the year before for Arsenal and has scored 20 goals twice for Arsenal despite being injured a lot in his career. I can bet there is no way Suarez scores 37 goals next season where ever he ends up playing at. I am glad you brought up Aguerro who is a similar player to Suarez, in fact I would argue that Aguerro is a more skillful player. He scored 30 his first season at Man City and everybody paid attention to him and he couldnt replicate it scoring only 17 goals. I have a feeling that the same fate awaits Suarez this coming season, teams are going to be focused on how to stop him and I dont think he is unstoppable.

As for the claim that we would win the league if we sign Suarez, if Van Persie had stayed at Arsenal last season, would we have won the league? We need at least 3-4 players to make this step to cover the 20 point gap we were between the eventual winners. If we waste 40 mil on Suarez, I wonder how much more improvement we can make with what we have left to spend.
I disagree. Suarez played fewer games than RVP and scored the same amount of goal. He is a first class free kick specialist ahead of the likes of Rooney and RVP who are pretty good in that department. He plays on a team where he is overly relied upon and still produced the goods. Yes, he very capable of scoring 37 goals in a season if he gets the type of service RVP got at Arsenal. He is also 4 years younger than RVP which means that he is in his footballing prime.
Suarez also needed about twice as many shots to score the same amount of goals.
He took fewer quality shots because he does not get anywhere near the type of service RVP has gotten from both Arsenal and United. I will give you this, RVP is probably better with his shot selection than Suarez. On the other hand, Suarez bothers the defensive opposition in a way that RVP does not. He is literally a pest on the field. He is more active and takes more chances, hence the superior amount of shots taken. RVP is a world class player and in his prime was maybe better than Suarez. He is also 30 and will be on a downward slide going forward. Charles Barkley has a saying whenever he is asked about older players performing at a high level " Old players don't get better, they die".
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Deleted User
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cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 12:24 PM
I'd still have Rooney, Aguero, and RvP ahead of Suarez in the pecking order of top EPL strikers, but no others.
Rooney? you must be having a laugh

Let's even put aside the fact that last season all you did was tell us how poor Rooney is and has been for a few years.

Suarez is better than Rooney at taking free kicks, he scores more goals in the 8th best team in england compare that to rooney goals playing for the best team in england. There's no way in hell Rooney is better than Suarez.

And for the record Suarez was FAR more consistent that RVP and Rooney put together last season, despite the fact that united was no 1 and liverpool was no 8, RVP going missing in a lot of games, went through a drought for like 10 games, suarez on the under hand was scoring consitently despite playinh in an average side.

I don't know what else Suarez got to do to convince people of his quality maybe score 50 goals like Rooney does?
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