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New Suarez Development
Topic Started: Jul 24 2013, 09:44 AM (1,965 Views)
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cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 01:23 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 12:37 PM
cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 12:24 PM
I'd still have Rooney, Aguero, and RvP ahead of Suarez in the pecking order of top EPL strikers, but no others.
No way I would have Rooney and RVP ahead of Suarez going forward. Based on past accomplishment, yes. But right now and going forward, Suarez is absolutely more valuable than those two players.
I'd still take RvP or Rooney over Suarez for the next two seasons. Beyond that, I agree with you. Obviously, a player's value differs from his quality, so maybe we're having two different arguments.
RVP is almost past his peak yet you would still pick him over suarez,RVP will be 32 in two seasons for God's sake.
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phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 01:26 PM
Gooner0893
Jul 25 2013, 11:27 AM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 07:15 AM
dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 04:19 AM
rta_67
Jul 24 2013, 01:39 PM
If successful, Suarez will be a brilliant and versatile attacking player who can be position anywhere in the front 3. He will definitely contribute goals and assists in the double digits and that will go a long way towards helping us get silverware this season. Heck, RVP probably single handedly gave United the title last year! I could care less about his character issues as long as they remain in the past and I definitely feel it is a risk worth taking. With all due respect, Higuain is a good player but he is just no where near the proven quality of Suarez. In fact, for an attacking player, only Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and Bale are ahead of him in my opinion and yes he is better than RVP who himself was not exactly a saint when we bought him! I just don't get it with people complaining about this move to acquire the guy. My only regret would be if we do not succeed.
Actually you can't even say Neymar is better than suarez, he is yet to prove himself in the european league, and I would be more confident with suarez in my side than Neymar, Neymar is no where as strong as suarez, and he still make a lot of wrong decision. With Suarez I know what I'm getting, a striker capable of scoring 30 goals with 11 assists, in a team that finished 8TH in the premier league.
The difference between signing Neymar for that fee and signing Suarez is that with Neymar you are signing a player with the potential to be the best footballer in the world. It is a gamble but it is high risk and high reward for Barcelona. It is similar to when Barca signed Ronaldinho and he went on to transform the club and transcend the sport. He not only changed the clubs fortunes on the pitch, he went on to be a symbol for the club. The monetary reward for signing Ronaldinho was 10 times what Barcelona paid for him and his value on the pitch was worth having 3 players because he made every one around him good. Now I dont even think Suarez is the best player in his position in the premiership let alone world. We pretty much know how good he is at this point. If you talk of financial benefits to the club, we are talking of a guy that is a racist and bites other players, if that the guy you really want to be the flag bearer for the club?
Phato, not a Suarez fan but who is better than him in the EPL? Aguero? They are at the same level. 40 mil absolutely makes sense for Suarez in today's market. He is capable of carrying a team as he has done so for Pool. They are few such players. He is also a free kick specialist in addition to being a really good assist provider. Which premiership players do you have ahead of him? Rooney? Nope. The 30 year old RVP? Nope. Lets mot even talk about Torres. Aguero and Suarez are on the same level. Not a fan of his personality (his histrionics against Ghana still sting) but I would absolutely welcome the player to Arsenal for over 40 mil.
Who is better than him in the Premier League? Van Persie, the same guy we sold for 25mil to our rivals Manchester United. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that Suarez is better than Van Persie, Last season they both scored 30 goals. If you want to argue that Van Persie played for Manchester United last year, well Van Persie scored 37 the year before for Arsenal and has scored 20 goals twice for Arsenal despite being injured a lot in his career. I can bet there is no way Suarez scores 37 goals next season where ever he ends up playing at. I am glad you brought up Aguerro who is a similar player to Suarez, in fact I would argue that Aguerro is a more skillful player. He scored 30 his first season at Man City and everybody paid attention to him and he couldnt replicate it scoring only 17 goals. I have a feeling that the same fate awaits Suarez this coming season, teams are going to be focused on how to stop him and I dont think he is unstoppable.

As for the claim that we would win the league if we sign Suarez, if Van Persie had stayed at Arsenal last season, would we have won the league? We need at least 3-4 players to make this step to cover the 20 point gap we were between the eventual winners. If we waste 40 mil on Suarez, I wonder how much more improvement we can make with what we have left to spend.
1) Injury played a big part in aguero not being able to replicate his form, he played less game as a result, and played some games not being 100% fit.

2)you are aware that throughout RVP career at Arsenal, we've always been top 4 right? Liverpool have been 7th at best throughout suarez time there that's the difference.

Suarez has also scored 49 goals in a season and he did this at age 22/23. Put him in a top 4 side before you start comparing his numbers with RVP.

If giroud can score 17 goals in Arsenal colours surely suarez is more than capable of scoring 30? not to mention that suarez would make some of his team mates look better.
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cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 01:32 PM
Phato, I gotta mention that Aguero's drop in goals probably has much more to do with the fact he missed a large chunk of the season through injury. However, I agree with you that, right now, Suarez is not better than RvP.
Based on what? based on the fact that one of them plays in a better team and gets a lot of chances, waste quite a few but could still score 30 goals because his team were dominating most of the games while the other plays in a team that couldn't even break into the top 6 a team with average players as starters.
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cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 02:08 PM
phatosas
Jul 25 2013, 02:03 PM
santry_gooner
Jul 25 2013, 01:10 PM
TransferMarkt puts Suarez at 40m book value. That takes into account all the positives he has on his side and none of the negatives. If you ask me 35 million is the actual value, give or take. The issue we are up against if we want him (and I don't) are:

- his indiscipline will cost the team, meaning he has to get 25 goals
- he isn't optimally suited to being the pinnacle of a 3 man attack
The second issue you mentioned is the exact reason why I am surprised we are obsessed with signing him. We saw how reluctant Wenger was to play Walcott there and how it didnt work the few games we tried it. Unless we are going to play a 4-4-2, playing a little guy that cant play with his back towards goal just doesnt look like it would work.
From what I've seen, Suarez is well-equipped to handle the role. He holds the ball up a lot better than Walcott. Hell, he holds the ball up better than Giroud.
I'm surprised peole are raising the "back to goal" point, I've even seen someone like hernandez play that sort of role a few times before and he did really well there you don't actually need to be as tall as andy caroll before you can play in the middle of a 4-3-3
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For those rating RVP ahead of Suarez I suggest you ask the united fans that watched him week in week out last season and they'll tell you he wasn't really that brilliant last season, he was a passenger in both legs of the UCL tie against real madrid and he was also like that in a lot of games, he was lethargic, first touch was horrible and basically caused real madrid defence ZERO problem

I can't remember watching any Liverpool game where suarez was a passenger.
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Gooner0893

Wow Pizzy, this is pretty strong. I agree with you.
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rta_67

dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 05:05 PM
For those rating RVP ahead of Suarez I suggest you ask the united fans that watched him week in week out last season and they'll tell you he wasn't really that brilliant last season, he was a passenger in both legs of the UCL tie against real madrid and he was also like that in a lot of games, he was lethargic, first touch was horrible and basically caused real madrid defence ZERO problem

I can't remember watching any Liverpool game where suarez was a passenger.
Absolutely true. I watch Suarez a lot this past couple of years and have concluded that there are few players in world football that are as clever (as in cunning) as him. He is not the most skillful or the biggest but he pretty much takes optimal advantage of whatever situation is finds himself in. He makes things happen for Liverpool and his country because he is an absolute pest to the opposition defense with his movement, ball control, dribbling and awareness. He would be perfect for us anywhere in the front 3 in a 433 or the front 2 in a 442.
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WX_Hitman

An interested Adebyor is also good as having a fit RVP to me. Yes he misses chances, yes he can't stay on side. But the way he troubles defence, it's 2nd to none. He runs non stop. Hassles the goal keeper even. 30 goal season says it all. And he could only get better. Not Gervinho kind of dribbling, but still silky smooth on the ball. He scores the spectacular, but misses the easy ones, but still a game winner. On his day Ade was unplayable. Yet on he was untameable after that. He was so disruptive that we got to let him go. His track record says it all. Started brightly then gave many discipline problems. Arsenal. Mancity . Totts.

I think Suazez although a good footballer, is that kind of player , but he is hardworking and runs his socks off though. but if we sign him. I am very worried about the character and how he is going to treat the club and the fans. We got a spitting Vieira . We got a spiitting Cesc, we got a drunk in Admans, we got a drug addict......... football genuis , how are we going to handle him ???? Will he be like a Gazza when interested and fit , or a Gazza who cannot lose his bottle. Or a RVP who threw shit on us , just before he wanted a move.

And Sagna is blacker than black. (skin colour tone) , I don't suppose Suarez will be playing on the right flank even if he signs for us. :P . Maybe that's why we are happy to let Gervinho go , so that Suarez can drift to the left flank and avoids the right like plague. !
Edited by WX_Hitman, Jul 25 2013, 07:29 PM.
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WX_Hitman

Madrid wants Bale. It's clear as day. I haven't seen or heard very much that they wanted Suarez. They still got Benzema, Ronaldo and Bale (if they get him).

Maybe Totts gave Madrid an ultimatum. You cannot sell Higuain to Arsenal. If you do , we would never consider selling bale to you until his contract is up.
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KamyFC
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Looks there will be some legal battle that will be fought between Suarez and Poo.

Suárez and his advisers remain at loggerheads with Liverpool over the interpretation of a clause in the deal he signed almost a year ago which Arsenal triggered this week by bidding £40,000,001 for the 26-year-old.

Liverpool have rejected the offer but have given Suárez permission to discuss personal terms with Arsenal, insisting his contract requires them to do no more than that.
Suárez, on the other hand, believes Arsenal have triggered a formal release clause that gives Liverpool no choice but to sell him.
If Liverpool refuse to back down, Suárez’s first recourse would be to the Premier League, whose rule T.30 allows it to arbitrate in disputes between players and their clubs, including over transfers.


Now when another club makes an offer and triggers a release clause, it indicates that the club which received the offer MUST honor it. Right?
If 40,000,001 is the release clause and we have triggered it, we HAVE to get the player.

Suarez is the type of character who will fight to get out of Poo. That might work to our advantage.
Edited by KamyFC, Jul 25 2013, 11:40 PM.
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