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New Suarez Development
Topic Started: Jul 24 2013, 09:44 AM (1,964 Views)
cruyff_turn
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dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 04:40 PM
cruyff_turn
Jul 25 2013, 12:24 PM
I'd still have Rooney, Aguero, and RvP ahead of Suarez in the pecking order of top EPL strikers, but no others.
Rooney? you must be having a laugh

Let's even put aside the fact that last season all you did was tell us how poor Rooney is and has been for a few years.

Suarez is better than Rooney at taking free kicks, he scores more goals in the 8th best team in england compare that to rooney goals playing for the best team in england. There's no way in hell Rooney is better than Suarez.

And for the record Suarez was FAR more consistent that RVP and Rooney put together last season, despite the fact that united was no 1 and liverpool was no 8, RVP going missing in a lot of games, went through a drought for like 10 games, suarez on the under hand was scoring consitently despite playinh in an average side.

I don't know what else Suarez got to do to convince people of his quality maybe score 50 goals like Rooney does?
I've already explained my reasons for Rooney. He and Suarez are about the same age and all Wayne needs is a little motivation and tlc. He's definitely got more in his locker than Suarez.

Rooney was poor last season (by his standards) but that doesn't mean he's not a better player than Suarez.

Why do you think Suarez is better at free kicks than Rooney? Over the last 2-3 years, Rooney's become one of the world's best in terms of free kicks.

Finally, I don't get how it could be construed I'm not "convinced" of Suarez's quality. I think he's one of the best in the EPL, just not quite as good as you do.

No reason to flip out about it.
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cruyff_turn
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This is a good statistical comparison of Suarez, Rooney, and RvP: http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/suarez-messi-and-walcott-measuring-a-forwards-oooh-and-ugh-factor-pt-2/

While Pizz and 0893 seem to be arguing an obvious gulf in class here, I think it's pretty clear there's not too much between the players. Rooney and RvP aren't as near as "busy" as Suarez, but they are considerably more efficient. Can't really go wrong with any of them though (speaking footballistically).
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jays712
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I don't think there's much between them either. Only negative about RVP is he's a few years older than the other two. I think Rooney on his day is every bit the pest that Suarez is. I've seen matches where you would swear there were two Rooney's out there cuz he would be in the middle of everything. He can also bring others into the attack and is not just a goal scorer. I see the burnout point with him since he's been a megastar since he was about 19 years old. That can wear on you.
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phatosas

dream_team
Jul 25 2013, 05:05 PM
For those rating RVP ahead of Suarez I suggest you ask the united fans that watched him week in week out last season and they'll tell you he wasn't really that brilliant last season, he was a passenger in both legs of the UCL tie against real madrid and he was also like that in a lot of games, he was lethargic, first touch was horrible and basically caused real madrid defence ZERO problem

I can't remember watching any Liverpool game where suarez was a passenger.
Rubbish and I don't mean this as an insult to you but the idea that somehow Suarez is somehow better than Van Persie is absolutely rubbish. When did we start judging players based on one and a half games in their career? Van Persie was brilliant for Manchester United last season but then he got injured. I remember fans here celebrating the injury because up to that point he was blazing and it looked like a steal at the price United got him for. He came back from the injury but clearly was carrying a knock. He went through a spell when he didnt score for a while and it wasn't until towards the end of the season that he regained his form back. Van Persie down period coincided with the Madrid game, it wasn't like he was performing and didnt show up for the game, he was struggling during that period. There is absolutely nothing in the Madrid defene that is special, Man United tore Madrid to shreads and would have won if not for this red card.

I also find it funny that one guy was a passenger the whole season and the other guy was a star yet they scored equal number of goals. Don't even talk about first touch, there are probably not up to 5 players in football that have a better first touch than Van Persie. Don't get me started about Van Persie playing for a better team, in Van Persie last season at Arsenal, that was one of the least creative Arsenal teams I have ever seen. To put it all into perspective Alex Song was our most creative player. There is only one issue in Van Persie's career and that is if he can stay fit to play because once fit, he is an amazing striker. There is absolutely no parameter, looking at the last 3 seasons where you can make an argument that Suarez is better than Van Persie.
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cruyff_turn
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Gonna have to agree 100% with Phato on that last post.
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dsch15
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cruyff_turn
Jul 26 2013, 12:32 PM
Gonna have to agree 100% with Phato on that last post.
I'll go with 95%, the 5% deduction for arguing a point dream team did not make, i.e., that RvP was a passenger for all (or even most) of the season. That particular criticism was directed at his performances vs. Real Madrid.

Otherwise strong points across the board. The difference between these players is much smaller than dream seems to think, whoever you think is better.
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Thanks DSCH15 for clarifying that I didn't say RVP was passenger all season.
Another thing I didn't say is Suarez is wayyy better than RVP, because I think the picture phato is painting is similar.

Phato the idea that Suarez is better than RVP is not rubbish I can assure you that.
I'm gonna take a guess here that you didn't watch more than 8 full matches involving RVP last season, otherwise you would have seen games where he was basically absent. I only wish united fans that watch him week in week out can confirm that.

again wrong teams comparison, creative or not creative Arsene Wenger sides have always been a top 4 team , the liverpool of last season is no where near top 4, never mind the title winning united side.
If you can't see the difference in quality between the united side and the liverpool side then I don't know what to say.

Oh and one more thing I've been watching Suarez since the world cup 2010 so that's 3 years and not 1.5 years, and his performance have been world class throughout 30 goals or no 30 goals.

"There is absolutely no parameter, looking at the last 3 seasons where you can make an argument that Suarez is better than Van Persie."

of course there's last year I see suarez get involved more in liverpool games, RVP go missing for a good number of games even in those games where he scores, he still score in those games were he was poor because united dominate 95% of their games, we all know how many games liverpool dominate.

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Joe Bobs Fine Foods
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Arsenal will not sign Suarez. Even if there is/was a sincere willingness to spend the money, at this point completing the transaction would require the mercenary gene that just doesn't exist at the club, for better or worse.

Plus: the latest quotes are quintessential Arsenal.

Do I hope I am wrong? Not sure.
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santry_gooner
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Joe Bobs Fine Foods
Jul 27 2013, 01:38 PM
Arsenal will not sign Suarez. Even if there is/was a sincere willingness to spend the money, at this point completing the transaction would require the mercenary gene that just doesn't exist at the club, for better or worse.

Plus: the latest quotes are quintessential Arsenal.

Do I hope I am wrong? Not sure.
More than that Joe Liverpool don't want to sell him, and while it sounds intangible he owes them a lot, as I just said on the other thread.

I hope we now move on, and quickly. There are other proven centre forwards out there that the scouts have watched. Time to get serious and go after one.
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supercollider7
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Santry, I agree there are other CFs we could get. Maybe not a big name but a player who could come in and do a good job and develop into a great player.
In Giroud and Poldi we may already have that.

But I think in going for these big names the club want to make a statement. Not only to the fans but also to other players to show them "look, big players can come to Arsenal too."

If Suarez bid does fail it will be interesting what we do. Do we wait to sign him next summer or do we get a less proven striker?
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