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Wenger alone in theatre of absurd
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Topic Started: Aug 5 2013, 04:40 AM (2,200 Views)
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KamyFC
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Aug 6 2013, 09:05 AM
Post #51
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- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 02:40 AM
Don't drop the hypocritical name calling card on me. You already struck thrice before you got "Morooned" on the rock of ignorance and summary thought. Lets bullet point that for you since you appear to have a really disjointed reading, writing and thought process: - Le Moderator - Predictable - Boor, or Borish - the implication that myself and Cruyff need to 'grow up'
And you got called 'moron' and you cannot stoop to my level. Heaven forbid Kamleash... Heaven forbid.
Now in order of your latest offering.
So like,... You focused only on 0893s opinion, failed to read the attached link which inspired him, failed to notice the chasm of mismatch and clapped him on the back for a very fine post indeed. Oh ok. I see how you might feel it was unjust for you to be accused of giving him MINDLESS traction. Now of course you label the article 'stupid'. Mind you we all feel relieved that you finally read it.
As regards the rest of the rubbish you posted. Wenger is saying we will challenge with this squad, and he's right. The fact that he also says we will try very hard to get extra players to strengthen it is said immediately afterwards, which allows those of use with brains to realise what in fact he is saying. I have no issue with other people misinterpreting that, but when I see dangerous levels of ignorant groupthink I always feel the urge to intervene.
haha! Santry - u make me laugh. U have hit a new low - IMO!
When is 'being predictable' , 'grow up' equal to name calling? lol
Here are some of the names u have used recently. 'Idiot', 'Moron' , 'Coward' (u called Jays that) and so many more.
Now a person like u resorts to accusations ,name calling and have personal prejudices. There will never be a balanced view in ur posts. It will always come down to the above.
What mattered in 0893's post was the idea of having a director and Wenger working under him. U conveniently 'airbrushed' that and focused on that article. Its the post and opinion that matters. After so many years in a message board - u still dont get it. So Sad!
The 'rubbish' - i posted, basically was to illustrate the state of delusion u r in. Just like Wenger who is deluded, when he says - 'he will challenge with this squad"
oh should i not call Wenger deluded? Ouch! That must have hurt u and ur eternal love for Wenger, i guess?
Sucks, to be u!
Edited by KamyFC, Aug 6 2013, 09:06 AM.
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billabog5
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Aug 6 2013, 02:09 PM
Post #52
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- rw_mlite2
- Aug 6 2013, 06:30 AM
Wow. A lot of things wrong in this thread by both sides of the argument. 1) we didn't get outbid by Chelsea for Mata. We tried to get him for less than his release clause. Spurs (supposedly) tried to do the same. We let the clause expire at the end of July without agreeing a fee. Chelsea came in later (after missing out on other targets) and paid more than the clause. 2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar. Once again the club's negotiating techniques drug everything out and the player eventually went to another club who was willing to pay what the market dictated (which was likely more than Wenger (or whoever) deemed the player was worth). However, the difference lies in that in the case of Higuain, I truly believe part of the reason we eventually pulled out was to go after a player who is deemed a better fit (ignoring the personal issues...obviously). The problem being, Arsenal's negotiators are showing their lack of experience/guile/whatever when dealing with big boy negotiations. 3) It's pretty well established that the club has had to sell a player or two each summer to finish in the black. I (and others) have posted the proof multiple times over. Now, that we've made a profit each year is where the problem lies. You have to sell players? Fine (though it shows a terrible lack of foresight from those involved in the stadium build as well as those involved in brokering the deals with Emirates and Nike (and whatever secondary sponsors were out there)). But at least reinvest the full amount. Cut rate deals/players are the reason we're where we're at now. Also, there's nothing wrong with taking on a bit of debt to try and improve. Of course it's easy to say as I'm not responsible for running the business. Rw, do you not think there are other ways of 'finishing in the red " , or more cynically put, lining the pockets of the directors & shareholders ?
Utd are just as crippled by the Glazer debt as Arsenal were by any stadium debt yet despite that the money was found to strengthen the squad & to win trophies & thererfore increase income from merchandising, prizemoney & sponsorships, even in this era of supposedly not being able to compete with the money of City & Chelsea .
Again, I emphasise that Arsenals decisions not to buy top quality replacements for those who jumped ship are absolutely by CHOICE, not NECESSITY
Arsenal could have bought any player they wanted had they pursued them aggressively enough & not been so penny pinchingly tight.
Do you really think the difference between what Arsenal offered for Mata & what Chelsea paid would have seen Arsenal finish in the red ?
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santry_gooner
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Aug 6 2013, 02:47 PM
Post #53
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- KamyFC
- Aug 6 2013, 09:05 AM
- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 02:40 AM
Don't drop the hypocritical name calling card on me. You already struck thrice before you got "Morooned" on the rock of ignorance and summary thought. Lets bullet point that for you since you appear to have a really disjointed reading, writing and thought process: - Le Moderator - Predictable - Boor, or Borish - the implication that myself and Cruyff need to 'grow up'
And you got called 'moron' and you cannot stoop to my level. Heaven forbid Kamleash... Heaven forbid.
Now in order of your latest offering.
So like,... You focused only on 0893s opinion, failed to read the attached link which inspired him, failed to notice the chasm of mismatch and clapped him on the back for a very fine post indeed. Oh ok. I see how you might feel it was unjust for you to be accused of giving him MINDLESS traction. Now of course you label the article 'stupid'. Mind you we all feel relieved that you finally read it.
As regards the rest of the rubbish you posted. Wenger is saying we will challenge with this squad, and he's right. The fact that he also says we will try very hard to get extra players to strengthen it is said immediately afterwards, which allows those of use with brains to realise what in fact he is saying. I have no issue with other people misinterpreting that, but when I see dangerous levels of ignorant groupthink I always feel the urge to intervene.
haha! Santry - u make me laugh. U have hit a new low - IMO! When is 'being predictable' , 'grow up' equal to name calling? lol Here are some of the names u have used recently. 'Idiot', 'Moron' , 'Coward' (u called Jays that) and so many more. Now a person like u resorts to accusations ,name calling and have personal prejudices. There will never be a balanced view in ur posts. It will always come down to the above. What mattered in 0893's post was the idea of having a director and Wenger working under him. U conveniently 'airbrushed' that and focused on that article. Its the post and opinion that matters. After so many years in a message board - u still dont get it. So Sad! The 'rubbish' - i posted, basically was to illustrate the state of delusion u r in. Just like Wenger who is deluded, when he says - 'he will challenge with this squad" oh should i not call Wenger deluded? Ouch! That must have hurt u and ur eternal love for Wenger, i guess? Sucks, to be u! You must need an Oxygen tent if you can't acknowledge the point I made about the context of Wenger saying we will challenge being conditional on signing a few players to bolster the squad. Stig of the dump, you ought to read that book. He is the character that thinks rubbish is gold.
So yeah, I called you a name. One that fit quite well. But of course you didn't use four on me. No you are looking great here or like a hypocritical moron.
You resort to accusations about Wenger in every post you make now, to the point where the air around you is stale. Yet you accuse me of never criticising Wenger...(false) and then go on to say I am predictable and that my posts lack balance. Enjoy wallowing in your own filth there old bean, I'm not looking on anymore.
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santry_gooner
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Aug 6 2013, 03:21 PM
Post #54
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On this issue the point about how much time we waited after the initial bid isn't the point. The point is that once it was publicised that Chelsea were the other bidder the deal was closed quickly because we pulled out and looked at other options. Valencia closed the deal within days. This was reported by Graham Hunter at the time. The actual point is that we can never win a bidding war with Chelsea. When we pulled out it was because we would not get into that as a waste of time. I do believe we are not at the races when it comes to transfers with large money involved. I think that we have become old maids, and the practices that other teams are used to - particularly the big teams - has changed a lot from the time when we last had transfer money to spend. Ivan Gazidis is an expert at closing player contracts, yet this summer he was in east Asia. He was, it seems, doing more deals with sponsors and discussed country rights in a few places. Now I don't begrudge his activity. His work in the last year has secured most of the 70 million we now have. Why aren't these skills applied to getting us the new players we need?
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Deleted User
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Aug 6 2013, 03:30 PM
Post #55
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Deleted User
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- rw_mlite2
- Aug 6 2013, 06:30 AM
Wow. A lot of things wrong in this thread by both sides of the argument. 1) we didn't get outbid by Chelsea for Mata. We tried to get him for less than his release clause. Spurs (supposedly) tried to do the same. We let the clause expire at the end of July without agreeing a fee. Chelsea came in later (after missing out on other targets) and paid more than the clause. 2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar. Once again the club's negotiating techniques drug everything out and the player eventually went to another club who was willing to pay what the market dictated (which was likely more than Wenger (or whoever) deemed the player was worth). However, the difference lies in that in the case of Higuain, I truly believe part of the reason we eventually pulled out was to go after a player who is deemed a better fit (ignoring the personal issues...obviously). The problem being, Arsenal's negotiators are showing their lack of experience/guile/whatever when dealing with big boy negotiations. 3) It's pretty well established that the club has had to sell a player or two each summer to finish in the black. I (and others) have posted the proof multiple times over. Now, that we've made a profit each year is where the problem lies. You have to sell players? Fine (though it shows a terrible lack of foresight from those involved in the stadium build as well as those involved in brokering the deals with Emirates and Nike (and whatever secondary sponsors were out there)). But at least reinvest the full amount. Cut rate deals/players are the reason we're where we're at now. Also, there's nothing wrong with taking on a bit of debt to try and improve. Of course it's easy to say as I'm not responsible for running the business. "2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar."
there's little or no difference rw_mlite, the bottom line is we had a certain valuation in our mind for both players, if valencia had accepted our valuation of mata he would be playing for us right now, if Real had accepted our valuation of Higuain he would be playing for us right now. We only went after suarez, because Real would not accept our valuation. We could have easily gone for Suarez earlier but it was clear Higuain was on top of our list before Suarez.
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santry_gooner
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Aug 6 2013, 03:36 PM
Post #56
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- dream_team
- Aug 6 2013, 03:30 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Aug 6 2013, 06:30 AM
Wow. A lot of things wrong in this thread by both sides of the argument. 1) we didn't get outbid by Chelsea for Mata. We tried to get him for less than his release clause. Spurs (supposedly) tried to do the same. We let the clause expire at the end of July without agreeing a fee. Chelsea came in later (after missing out on other targets) and paid more than the clause. 2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar. Once again the club's negotiating techniques drug everything out and the player eventually went to another club who was willing to pay what the market dictated (which was likely more than Wenger (or whoever) deemed the player was worth). However, the difference lies in that in the case of Higuain, I truly believe part of the reason we eventually pulled out was to go after a player who is deemed a better fit (ignoring the personal issues...obviously). The problem being, Arsenal's negotiators are showing their lack of experience/guile/whatever when dealing with big boy negotiations. 3) It's pretty well established that the club has had to sell a player or two each summer to finish in the black. I (and others) have posted the proof multiple times over. Now, that we've made a profit each year is where the problem lies. You have to sell players? Fine (though it shows a terrible lack of foresight from those involved in the stadium build as well as those involved in brokering the deals with Emirates and Nike (and whatever secondary sponsors were out there)). But at least reinvest the full amount. Cut rate deals/players are the reason we're where we're at now. Also, there's nothing wrong with taking on a bit of debt to try and improve. Of course it's easy to say as I'm not responsible for running the business.
"2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar." there's little or no difference rw_mlite, the bottom line is we had a certain valuation in our mind for both players, if valencia had accepted our valuation of mata he would be playing for us right now, if Real had accepted our valuation of Higuain he would be playing for us right now. We only went after suarez, because Real would not accept our valuation. We could have easily gone for Suarez earlier but it was clear Higuain was on top of our list before Suarez. Or you could say our offer happened before the appointment of Ancelotti. Once he arrived different dynamics took over like the desperation to get Gareth Bale.
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Deleted User
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Aug 6 2013, 03:39 PM
Post #57
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Deleted User
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- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 03:36 PM
- dream_team
- Aug 6 2013, 03:30 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Aug 6 2013, 06:30 AM
Wow. A lot of things wrong in this thread by both sides of the argument. 1) we didn't get outbid by Chelsea for Mata. We tried to get him for less than his release clause. Spurs (supposedly) tried to do the same. We let the clause expire at the end of July without agreeing a fee. Chelsea came in later (after missing out on other targets) and paid more than the clause. 2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar. Once again the club's negotiating techniques drug everything out and the player eventually went to another club who was willing to pay what the market dictated (which was likely more than Wenger (or whoever) deemed the player was worth). However, the difference lies in that in the case of Higuain, I truly believe part of the reason we eventually pulled out was to go after a player who is deemed a better fit (ignoring the personal issues...obviously). The problem being, Arsenal's negotiators are showing their lack of experience/guile/whatever when dealing with big boy negotiations. 3) It's pretty well established that the club has had to sell a player or two each summer to finish in the black. I (and others) have posted the proof multiple times over. Now, that we've made a profit each year is where the problem lies. You have to sell players? Fine (though it shows a terrible lack of foresight from those involved in the stadium build as well as those involved in brokering the deals with Emirates and Nike (and whatever secondary sponsors were out there)). But at least reinvest the full amount. Cut rate deals/players are the reason we're where we're at now. Also, there's nothing wrong with taking on a bit of debt to try and improve. Of course it's easy to say as I'm not responsible for running the business.
"2) It's not the same as the Higuain situation, but it's also not dissimilar." there's little or no difference rw_mlite, the bottom line is we had a certain valuation in our mind for both players, if valencia had accepted our valuation of mata he would be playing for us right now, if Real had accepted our valuation of Higuain he would be playing for us right now. We only went after suarez, because Real would not accept our valuation. We could have easily gone for Suarez earlier but it was clear Higuain was on top of our list before Suarez.
Or you could say our offer happened before the appointment of Ancelotti. Once he arrived different dynamics took over like the desperation to get Gareth Bale. Gareth Bale and Ancelotti has got nothing to do with it.
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gunnerjunkie
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Aug 6 2013, 04:22 PM
Post #58
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- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 03:21 PM
On this issue the point about how much time we waited after the initial bid isn't the point. The point is that once it was publicised that Chelsea were the other bidder the deal was closed quickly because we pulled out and looked at other options. Valencia closed the deal within days. This was reported by Graham Hunter at the time. The actual point is that we can never win a bidding war with Chelsea. When we pulled out it was because we would not get into that as a waste of time. I do believe we are not at the races when it comes to transfers with large money involved. I think that we have become old maids, and the practices that other teams are used to - particularly the big teams - has changed a lot from the time when we last had transfer money to spend. Ivan Gazidis is an expert at closing player contracts, yet this summer he was in east Asia. He was, it seems, doing more deals with sponsors and discussed country rights in a few places. Now I don't begrudge his activity. His work in the last year has secured most of the 70 million we now have. Why aren't these skills applied to getting us the new players we need? No,the fact is that you can't get your head around Arsenal squandering a golden opportunity.Before the release clause expired,Chelsea never made a bid for Mata.
Valencia were keen to do business with Arsenal,Mata wanted to come.Mata's agent(his father) was waiting for Arsenal to contact him so the deal could be sealed.No contact and the clause expired.
Pizzy is correct in his chronological account of events.Chelsea wanted Modric.
Spendthrift Arsenal.We ended up with Gervinho,who saved us from "dizzying prices".
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Gooner0893
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Aug 6 2013, 04:40 PM
Post #59
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- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 02:47 PM
- KamyFC
- Aug 6 2013, 09:05 AM
- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 02:40 AM
Don't drop the hypocritical name calling card on me. You already struck thrice before you got "Morooned" on the rock of ignorance and summary thought. Lets bullet point that for you since you appear to have a really disjointed reading, writing and thought process: - Le Moderator - Predictable - Boor, or Borish - the implication that myself and Cruyff need to 'grow up'
And you got called 'moron' and you cannot stoop to my level. Heaven forbid Kamleash... Heaven forbid.
Now in order of your latest offering.
So like,... You focused only on 0893s opinion, failed to read the attached link which inspired him, failed to notice the chasm of mismatch and clapped him on the back for a very fine post indeed. Oh ok. I see how you might feel it was unjust for you to be accused of giving him MINDLESS traction. Now of course you label the article 'stupid'. Mind you we all feel relieved that you finally read it.
As regards the rest of the rubbish you posted. Wenger is saying we will challenge with this squad, and he's right. The fact that he also says we will try very hard to get extra players to strengthen it is said immediately afterwards, which allows those of use with brains to realise what in fact he is saying. I have no issue with other people misinterpreting that, but when I see dangerous levels of ignorant groupthink I always feel the urge to intervene.
haha! Santry - u make me laugh. U have hit a new low - IMO! When is 'being predictable' , 'grow up' equal to name calling? lol Here are some of the names u have used recently. 'Idiot', 'Moron' , 'Coward' (u called Jays that) and so many more. Now a person like u resorts to accusations ,name calling and have personal prejudices. There will never be a balanced view in ur posts. It will always come down to the above. What mattered in 0893's post was the idea of having a director and Wenger working under him. U conveniently 'airbrushed' that and focused on that article. Its the post and opinion that matters. After so many years in a message board - u still dont get it. So Sad! The 'rubbish' - i posted, basically was to illustrate the state of delusion u r in. Just like Wenger who is deluded, when he says - 'he will challenge with this squad" oh should i not call Wenger deluded? Ouch! That must have hurt u and ur eternal love for Wenger, i guess? Sucks, to be u!
You must need an Oxygen tent if you can't acknowledge the point I made about the context of Wenger saying we will challenge being conditional on signing a few players to bolster the squad. Stig of the dump, you ought to read that book. He is the character that thinks rubbish is gold. So yeah, I called you a name. One that fit quite well. But of course you didn't use four on me. No you are looking great here or like a hypocritical moron. You resort to accusations about Wenger in every post you make now, to the point where the air around you is stale. Yet you accuse me of never criticising Wenger...(false) and then go on to say I am predictable and that my posts lack balance. Enjoy wallowing in your own filth there old bean, I'm not looking on anymore. Dude, you have never criticized Wenger. You are obviously not objective and its laughable that you claim to be.
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Gooner0893
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Aug 6 2013, 04:42 PM
Post #60
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- santry_gooner
- Aug 6 2013, 03:21 PM
On this issue the point about how much time we waited after the initial bid isn't the point. The point is that once it was publicised that Chelsea were the other bidder the deal was closed quickly because we pulled out and looked at other options. Valencia closed the deal within days. This was reported by Graham Hunter at the time. The actual point is that we can never win a bidding war with Chelsea. When we pulled out it was because we would not get into that as a waste of time. I do believe we are not at the races when it comes to transfers with large money involved. I think that we have become old maids, and the practices that other teams are used to - particularly the big teams - has changed a lot from the time when we last had transfer money to spend. Ivan Gazidis is an expert at closing player contracts, yet this summer he was in east Asia. He was, it seems, doing more deals with sponsors and discussed country rights in a few places. Now I don't begrudge his activity. His work in the last year has secured most of the 70 million we now have. Why aren't these skills applied to getting us the new players we need? Ivan Gazidis is an expert at closing player contracts LOLOLOL
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