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Managerial fingerprints
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Topic Started: Oct 15 2013, 12:01 PM (429 Views)
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Deleted User
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Oct 20 2013, 05:43 PM
Post #21
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Deleted User
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- santry_gooner
- Oct 20 2013, 04:17 PM
- dream_team
- Oct 20 2013, 05:49 AM
- santry_gooner
- Oct 20 2013, 05:47 AM
Afterthought, but just for Piz. As BNPBOG isn't here you can answer for him. Would you say that the author of the post has an anti English agenda. I mean all I said was that AVB should have replaced Terry, Lampard and Ivanovich. Since my view is similar to the article maybe you can make him guilty of the same hatred, get his site taken down.
"I mean all I said was that AVB should have replaced Terry, Lampard and Ivanovich" so why didn't AVB do it, is he a pu**y?
No reply until you acknowledge the article and tell us if it's anti English. why should I acknowledge the article? my argument from the start has always been who was the main person responsible for the fiasco at Chelsea. Of course I disagree with the article as it doesn't state that AVB was incapable of coaching a big team like Chelsea unlike his mentor. Now I don't know the author and I don't know how many articles he has written blaming lampard and terry for everything wrong with Chelsea, so why should I accuse him of being anti English? you on the other hand I KNOW and I'VE SEEN you start AT LEAST TEN threads on the chelsea old guards, I rest my case....
Now is AVB a pu**y or not?
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supercollider7
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Oct 21 2013, 10:18 AM
Post #22
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I haven't read this whole "debate" but I would just like to say that there's no reason a top level defender like Terry can't play the offside-trap. The problem is that when a new coach comes in and the results don't go his way the players can lose trust in him. That happens quite often. And AVB got quite a few things wrong early on at Chelsea as he adapted to the demands of a bigger league and a bigger team. Shouldn't been given more time but when players like Terry and Lampard who hold so much sway with the owner don't believe in you anymore you're going to get the sack. And the defensive problems didn't have so much to do with the high line as much as they did with his midfield setup. He wanted Sturridge to play like Hulk, as a wide forward. But you can't afford to not track back in the EPL. You can't let Santos walk by you and score goals. He also wanted the no.6 to have a more fluid role, so Mikel/Romeu would make forward runs quite often but this also left them exposed. It worked in Portugal for the strongest team in the league, and in the Uefa Cup but it wasn't going to work in England. To his credit he was adapting and fixing his mistakes, and I'm glad he was given another chance at Tottenham.
At Spurs the team still plays an aggressive offside trap but the midfield is far more conservative. And on the wings you see hardworking midfielders rather than strikers shifted out wide. And in Lloris they have, IMO, the best goalkeeper in the league, who is very good at sweeping behind the defensive line.
So while they were over-reliant on Bale last year and have struggled to score goals this season, they've been pretty defensively solid and that's winning them games.
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santry_gooner
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Oct 21 2013, 05:23 PM
Post #23
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- supercollider7
- Oct 21 2013, 10:18 AM
I haven't read this whole "debate" but I would just like to say that there's no reason a top level defender like Terry can't play the offside-trap. The problem is that when a new coach comes in and the results don't go his way the players can lose trust in him. That happens quite often. And AVB got quite a few things wrong early on at Chelsea as he adapted to the demands of a bigger league and a bigger team. Shouldn't been given more time but when players like Terry and Lampard who hold so much sway with the owner don't believe in you anymore you're going to get the sack. And the defensive problems didn't have so much to do with the high line as much as they did with his midfield setup. He wanted Sturridge to play like Hulk, as a wide forward. But you can't afford to not track back in the EPL. You can't let Santos walk by you and score goals. He also wanted the no.6 to have a more fluid role, so Mikel/Romeu would make forward runs quite often but this also left them exposed. It worked in Portugal for the strongest team in the league, and in the Uefa Cup but it wasn't going to work in England. To his credit he was adapting and fixing his mistakes, and I'm glad he was given another chance at Tottenham.
At Spurs the team still plays an aggressive offside trap but the midfield is far more conservative. And on the wings you see hardworking midfielders rather than strikers shifted out wide. And in Lloris they have, IMO, the best goalkeeper in the league, who is very good at sweeping behind the defensive line.
So while they were over-reliant on Bale last year and have struggled to score goals this season, they've been pretty defensively solid and that's winning them games. I think you are spot on, AVB made mistakes in his precious few months at Chelsea. Alex ferguson made more mistakes in his first few months at United, so I suppose he should have been sacked too?
There is a very good reason why Chelsea couldn't play the high line with selective pressing that Spurs now play. That being that Terry and Ivanovich are not fast enough to deal with balls in behind them, which you would have to say the Spurs defence of today are. Chelsea used two destroyers in midfield, which also requires a pressing game. Destroyers haven't got the passing range at different angles to start moves from deep. The reason Arsenal gets away with a deeper defensive line than last year is that we now have midfielders who are next to impossible to dispossess. When the midfield wasn't quite working you saw what happened to our deep lying defence - Aston Villa.
Back to Chelsea. Players like Terry and Ivanovich were too stubborn to try something new. They also were up themselves in terms of their 'player power' with Roman. That broke it for AVB. Piz was unwittingly right earlier, he should have sold them or just not trusted them and played a youth player in the team. The way he did it he gave them even more power.
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Deleted User
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Oct 21 2013, 07:10 PM
Post #24
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Deleted User
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- santry_gooner
- Oct 21 2013, 05:23 PM
- supercollider7
- Oct 21 2013, 10:18 AM
I haven't read this whole "debate" but I would just like to say that there's no reason a top level defender like Terry can't play the offside-trap. The problem is that when a new coach comes in and the results don't go his way the players can lose trust in him. That happens quite often. And AVB got quite a few things wrong early on at Chelsea as he adapted to the demands of a bigger league and a bigger team. Shouldn't been given more time but when players like Terry and Lampard who hold so much sway with the owner don't believe in you anymore you're going to get the sack. And the defensive problems didn't have so much to do with the high line as much as they did with his midfield setup. He wanted Sturridge to play like Hulk, as a wide forward. But you can't afford to not track back in the EPL. You can't let Santos walk by you and score goals. He also wanted the no.6 to have a more fluid role, so Mikel/Romeu would make forward runs quite often but this also left them exposed. It worked in Portugal for the strongest team in the league, and in the Uefa Cup but it wasn't going to work in England. To his credit he was adapting and fixing his mistakes, and I'm glad he was given another chance at Tottenham.
At Spurs the team still plays an aggressive offside trap but the midfield is far more conservative. And on the wings you see hardworking midfielders rather than strikers shifted out wide. And in Lloris they have, IMO, the best goalkeeper in the league, who is very good at sweeping behind the defensive line.
So while they were over-reliant on Bale last year and have struggled to score goals this season, they've been pretty defensively solid and that's winning them games.
I think you are spot on, AVB made mistakes in his precious few months at Chelsea. Alex ferguson made more mistakes in his first few months at United, so I suppose he should have been sacked too? There is a very good reason why Chelsea couldn't play the high line with selective pressing that Spurs now play. That being that Terry and Ivanovich are not fast enough to deal with balls in behind them, which you would have to say the Spurs defence of today are. Chelsea used two destroyers in midfield, which also requires a pressing game. Destroyers haven't got the passing range at different angles to start moves from deep. The reason Arsenal gets away with a deeper defensive line than last year is that we now have midfielders who are next to impossible to dispossess. When the midfield wasn't quite working you saw what happened to our deep lying defence - Aston Villa. Back to Chelsea. Players like Terry and Ivanovich were too stubborn to try something new. They also were up themselves in terms of their 'player power' with Roman. That broke it for AVB. Piz was unwittingly right earlier, he should have sold them or just not trusted them and played a youth player in the team. The way he did it he gave them even more power. "Players like Terry and Ivanovich were too stubborn to try something new."
you keep making a fool of urself with this kind of statement if I'm a coach and I'm telling my players to play a particular way I'll bench them!, you just ask mourinho! I won't be a p*ssy like AVB, and if also happen that those two players are bigger than me in the club that they can do whatever they like then I'll resign, as it stands AVB didn't bench those two players and he still got the sack, what a clever coach! He could still do with some coaching from Mourinho!
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