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Crystal Palace
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Topic Started: Oct 26 2013, 06:07 AM (2,244 Views)
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rw_mlite2
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Oct 27 2013, 07:26 PM
Post #231
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- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 06:26 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Oct 27 2013, 06:06 PM
- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 05:21 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Oct 27 2013, 04:20 PM
I'm confused here. Why does it matter if anyone would take RvP for one year over Suarez? We're dealing entirely in hypotheticals. RvP isn't coming back and Liverpool will never sell Suarez to us. I will say that it would be great to have a striker with his toolbag playing for us, but the likelihood of that happening in January is somewhere between slim and none (and much closer to the latter).
the argument is actually "who is better ? RVP or Suarez", when people say "they'll take one player over the other" that is assuming both players are available
But why the heartburn over two players who will never play for us?
it's fun, you can stay away if it doesn't interest you. On the contrary. It is an interesting conversation, but it seems some people are taking it a bit too seriously...or have an agenda with it?
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supercollider7
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Oct 27 2013, 09:30 PM
Post #232
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Can't believe we keep making idiotic mistakes like this. Twice in two games we've overcommitted offensively and paid the price. In fact, twice this season we've left literally no one back after a set piece leading to a goal (Villa) and a red card. What the fuck?
The team really really needs to shape up defensively.
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supercollider7
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Oct 27 2013, 09:32 PM
Post #233
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- rw_mlite2
- Oct 27 2013, 07:26 PM
- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 06:26 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Oct 27 2013, 06:06 PM
- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 05:21 PM
- rw_mlite2
- Oct 27 2013, 04:20 PM
I'm confused here. Why does it matter if anyone would take RvP for one year over Suarez? We're dealing entirely in hypotheticals. RvP isn't coming back and Liverpool will never sell Suarez to us. I will say that it would be great to have a striker with his toolbag playing for us, but the likelihood of that happening in January is somewhere between slim and none (and much closer to the latter).
the argument is actually "who is better ? RVP or Suarez", when people say "they'll take one player over the other" that is assuming both players are available
But why the heartburn over two players who will never play for us?
it's fun, you can stay away if it doesn't interest you.
On the contrary. It is an interesting conversation, but it seems some people are taking it a bit too seriously...or have an agenda with it? It's not about the discussion, it's about trying to "win" the argument and make the other person look stupid. That's why they simply can't make their point and then agree to disagree. Just keep on arguing and picking on whatever minute detail they can. For pages upon pages of boxes within boxes.
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cruyff_turn
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Oct 27 2013, 09:35 PM
Post #234
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Administrator
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- supercollider7
- Oct 27 2013, 09:30 PM
Can't believe we keep making idiotic mistakes like this. Twice in two games we've overcommitted offensively and paid the price. In fact, twice this season we've left literally no one back after a set piece leading to a goal (Villa) and a red card. What the fuck?
The team really really needs to shape up defensively. Should definitely be a point of emphasis for Windsor and Heisenbould.
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supercollider7
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Oct 27 2013, 09:42 PM
Post #235
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- cruyff_turn
- Oct 27 2013, 09:35 PM
- supercollider7
- Oct 27 2013, 09:30 PM
Can't believe we keep making idiotic mistakes like this. Twice in two games we've overcommitted offensively and paid the price. In fact, twice this season we've left literally no one back after a set piece leading to a goal (Villa) and a red card. What the fuck?
The team really really needs to shape up defensively.
Should definitely be a point of emphasis for Windsor and Heisenbould. Indeed, good sir.
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phatosas
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Oct 28 2013, 02:04 AM
Post #236
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- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 03:18 PM
- phatosas
- Oct 27 2013, 11:37 AM
First of all the way the summer panned out couldnt have been any better. Everything fell into place and we signed a player who up to this point has had a fantastic career, has won things, has an impeccable character and is regarded among the best players in the world. The Suarez thing was an embarrassment to the club and even if we had succeeded in signing him, he would have divided the fans, he wouldnt have contributed in any way for the first 10 games of the season (League and CL) and you wonder where we would have been if we had to wait for 10 games to use our 40 mil pound signing. I have no idea why this debate is even being brought up considering Giroud has actually stepped up to the plate this season.
Anyway there were a lot of things said in the summer. I remember how I was scoffed at when I suggested that Aguerro was similar to Suarez but he is proving it this season. I dont get excited game to game and surely the worst time to make an argument is after you just see a player score a hat trick and looks out of this world. Similar to when fans suggest that we wait till the end of season or mid season to take stock, lets evaluate all these guys at the very end because the season is very long and grueling and this is only the beginning.
actually after the argument was started before the season it was brought up again before suarez was back from suspension, anyways let's put that aside for now. Suarez would have actually penned down a 4 year contract with the gunner at least, and I'm sure that's enough time to make up for the 'first 10 games' missed (ozil missed our first 5 games btw). I don't get your argument about aguero you'll have to explain further, apart from the fact that he's been fantastic this season, he was also fantastic today playing as a LONE striker and he has also done so in the past. I brought Aguero into the discussion when we were talking of value. I compared what Man City paid for Aguerro to what we had offered for Suarez suggesting that they were similar players and should be valued about the same. I also believed that Suarez would have a down year following what was an exceptional season (similar to Aguero).
The other issue that has sort of come up which has sort of come up is the 4-3-3 dilemma. We have actually seen a lot of 4-4-2 by clubs this season. Unsurprisingly Manchester City and Liverpool are the clubs that have adopted this formation to suit their personel. Manchester United have also tried to play a different variation with Rooney as a midfielder but that has produced poorer results as there is very little link up between Rooney and Van Persie. If you look at Liverpool goal distribution, Sturrige has 8 goals while Suarez has 6 goals out of their 17 goals. The rest of the team has 3 goals with nobody scoring more than one goal. Arsenal have 20 goals with Giroud scoring only 5 goals. If you watch Arsenal this season you would notice that Giroud is playing a lot with his back to the opponents goal and he is linking up very well with the midfield. Perhaps if we signed Suarez we would have shifted to a traditional 4-4-2 or played Suarez wide but dont assume if we had stuck Suarez upfront like Giroud, we would have the same type of back to the goal game we are currently getting from Giroud.
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Deleted User
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Oct 28 2013, 05:16 AM
Post #237
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Deleted User
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- phatosas
- Oct 28 2013, 02:04 AM
- dream_team
- Oct 27 2013, 03:18 PM
- phatosas
- Oct 27 2013, 11:37 AM
First of all the way the summer panned out couldnt have been any better. Everything fell into place and we signed a player who up to this point has had a fantastic career, has won things, has an impeccable character and is regarded among the best players in the world. The Suarez thing was an embarrassment to the club and even if we had succeeded in signing him, he would have divided the fans, he wouldnt have contributed in any way for the first 10 games of the season (League and CL) and you wonder where we would have been if we had to wait for 10 games to use our 40 mil pound signing. I have no idea why this debate is even being brought up considering Giroud has actually stepped up to the plate this season.
Anyway there were a lot of things said in the summer. I remember how I was scoffed at when I suggested that Aguerro was similar to Suarez but he is proving it this season. I dont get excited game to game and surely the worst time to make an argument is after you just see a player score a hat trick and looks out of this world. Similar to when fans suggest that we wait till the end of season or mid season to take stock, lets evaluate all these guys at the very end because the season is very long and grueling and this is only the beginning.
actually after the argument was started before the season it was brought up again before suarez was back from suspension, anyways let's put that aside for now. Suarez would have actually penned down a 4 year contract with the gunner at least, and I'm sure that's enough time to make up for the 'first 10 games' missed (ozil missed our first 5 games btw). I don't get your argument about aguero you'll have to explain further, apart from the fact that he's been fantastic this season, he was also fantastic today playing as a LONE striker and he has also done so in the past.
I brought Aguero into the discussion when we were talking of value. I compared what Man City paid for Aguerro to what we had offered for Suarez suggesting that they were similar players and should be valued about the same. I also believed that Suarez would have a down year following what was an exceptional season (similar to Aguero). The other issue that has sort of come up which has sort of come up is the 4-3-3 dilemma. We have actually seen a lot of 4-4-2 by clubs this season. Unsurprisingly Manchester City and Liverpool are the clubs that have adopted this formation to suit their personel. Manchester United have also tried to play a different variation with Rooney as a midfielder but that has produced poorer results as there is very little link up between Rooney and Van Persie. If you look at Liverpool goal distribution, Sturrige has 8 goals while Suarez has 6 goals out of their 17 goals. The rest of the team has 3 goals with nobody scoring more than one goal. Arsenal have 20 goals with Giroud scoring only 5 goals. If you watch Arsenal this season you would notice that Giroud is playing a lot with his back to the opponents goal and he is linking up very well with the midfield. Perhaps if we signed Suarez we would have shifted to a traditional 4-4-2 or played Suarez wide but dont assume if we had stuck Suarez upfront like Giroud, we would have the same type of back to the goal game we are currently getting from Giroud. Like I said in the other thread it doesn't matter how Suarez does it as long as he improves the team. We've seen teams play with no real no 9 in a 4-3-3 before and still do well, heck some people even suggested playing ozil as a false 9 to give Giroud a break! Suarez can be an excellent no 9 without playing with his back to goal.
"I compared what Man City paid for Aguerro to what we had offered for Suarez suggesting that they were similar players and should be valued about the same." To your second point Aguero cost city £38m, that's £2m less than what we offered liverpool for Suarez, and £18 million MORE than your valuation of Suarez, something doesn't add up here. And so far your prediction of Suarez having a 'down year' is not looking good at all.
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