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Magic; Use this topic for all magic related stuff
Topic Started: Oct 10 2013, 08:46 AM (21,036 Views)
essiw
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I thought that it would be nicer to have a separate topic about magic. So here you can discuss about everything you want as long as it is about magic ;)

Below I will include what we know about collecting magic and some strategy ideas. We will include more info as we discover it and have time to include it. :)

Hiding info so we don't have to scroll as much while still being able to access the info.

Spoiler: click to toggle
[R4E]Adding magic info[/R4E]
Edited by wapatango, Nov 19 2013, 07:35 AM.
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Margrave

I also got a pop up saying that once it's released all magic towards it will stop. I have about 10000 left for the final prize with double points this weekend you think it's worth going for it?

Trying to figure out if it will accelerate because everyone's going for it or stay steady/slow down because there's a lot of people who will be close to/have the final reward
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Sylvandyr
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Man, I thought I would be able to get enough magic to at least finish my current 7200 upgrade. I've committed 5038 magic so far but it's looking like I won't make it unless I spend money. The light stuff has progressed several steps just today alone.

I actually wanted the dark stuff. I'm dumb and should have just ignored light and gone for dark. It's gone way too fast for me. I probably won't be able to complete dark now at the rate this is going, cause once light is done, everyone will be on dark.
Edited by Sylvandyr, Nov 1 2013, 03:26 PM.
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RuffianRules

Wow! When they did the double magic last weekend, I thought they were trying to get this stuff moving and now I think they want it to be done! I am guessing that they had planned for this to culminate around Halloween. So they have to push us along. Well I have at least 2 eggs in the Light habitat. I will never get to the next level so I'm sticking with Dark so I can get the 2nd egg there.
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essiw
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Still hoping to get the last two dark ones... not bothering with the last light one because I won't be able to make it anyway.
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Mr.Shabadoo
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Well my strategy worked, but now I hit the limit for the day for the first time during the event. I've got 1000 left on the Giant upgrade for the light and 17 hours to wait for the reset. I think I'll be okay, but I'm a little worried about the light chevrons finishing before then. What do you guys think, am I okay or gonna miss out?
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wapatango
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I am sure you are safe. I don't think light will finish before Sunday.
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Wyvern

I agree with everyone and Backflip wants this event over. Looking at the math, they probably think that at least one dragon should have been released by now. Update went out on Oct 9th. Assuming that the player bought the first upgrade, a grand total of 36,799 magic is needed per side. A player maxing out their magic generation (3000) works out to slightly over 12 days to fully complete one side, so around Oct 21st. Then if that player repeated that for the second dragon, that puts the other dragon finished around Nov 2nd. Throw in Double Magic Weekends and that moves all the time tables up. The fact that they haven't released the first dragon makes me wonder if they aren't seeing the response to this that they would have liked.
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scarreddragon
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I've gotten the two egg update in Light, and am about 2000 away from the same update in Dark. I wish I could go for the 9999 light, but I'm pretty sure there is no way I'll make that, so I guess once I finish dark I'll just play normally and not bother anymore with upgrades. Once we get Light, everyone will be going for Dark, so it will hopefully be pretty quick at that point, and I want to keep my habitats even. Too bad though... I like the look of the 9999 upgraded habitats the best!
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Fletch_smf
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Dancingmantis
Nov 1 2013, 08:40 AM
So, does anyone have any clues as to what happens with the whole magic mecanic after the event? Does it just go away, or will earning magic be repurposed for something else than "bringing back the rift dragons"?
The FAQ says magic will disappear from our parks after this event. No doubt they'll bring it back for the next thing.
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Fletch_smf
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Wyvern
Nov 1 2013, 11:14 PM
I agree with everyone and Backflip wants this event over. Looking at the math, they probably think that at least one dragon should have been released by now. Update went out on Oct 9th. Assuming that the player bought the first upgrade, a grand total of 36,799 magic is needed per side. A player maxing out their magic generation (3000) works out to slightly over 12 days to fully complete one side, so around Oct 21st. Then if that player repeated that for the second dragon, that puts the other dragon finished around Nov 2nd. Throw in Double Magic Weekends and that moves all the time tables up. The fact that they haven't released the first dragon makes me wonder if they aren't seeing the response to this that they would have liked.
But the release of each element is tied to the magic earned by all players, of which about 1.1 million are playing each week.

30 000 000 000 magic required to release an element. 40 000 possible earned by each player. 750 000 players need to max rewards of 1+ million or so that are playing each week. With 60 billion needed, a million players and a max of 3000 magic per day the absolute fastest everything could be released is 20 days. Considering the average earnings for players will be half that, 40 days was probably the original time line they had worked out, with approx 30 days for the winner, and then another 10 for the runner up.

We're still quite a ways short of that.
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Fletch_smf
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Suncrusher
Oct 31 2013, 10:29 PM
Fletch_smf
Oct 31 2013, 08:29 PM
Well your argument about why mystery is bad is a poor one. Your suggesting that BFS should explain absolutely everything about the game at all times. I hate the breeding hints and the fact you can buy gemstone eggs direct from the market now for precisely that reason. The discovering is part of the fun.

Likewise every limited dragon is going to be unbreedable for a small % of players. That's just statistics that occur when a million plus people play a game of chance. Someone (quite a few someone's in fact) can breed all month in both caves and not breed an Opal. To suggest that BFS could allow everyone to get every dragon by supplying more information is incorrect. And again, by definition, a very small % will achieve max rewards in this event. There is no way that it is a special type of dragon that is only available to those players. This is really one of those times when all players that try, will be able to get these Rift Dragons by earning the smallest amount of magic required, or buying the update for 99 cents. This is a very well crafted event.
Please go back and actually read my arguments carefully because you are now misstating all of them and missing (or pretending to ignore so you don't have to deal with) the actual arguments. I don't like the mystery in this case (a special type of dragon in a special event where all the details about future availability/ability to breed/etc. are unknown) because it makes it impossible to know whether I need to spend money or forever miss out on something. That has nothing to do with mystery breeding combos—which I incidentally think are fun—, and I don't appreciate your strawman argument here.

Aside from breeding combos, it is important to provide other information about the dragons (can the dragon itself breed, when is this dragon leaving the market forever, etc.). When players know a dragon is leaving the market forever, they have had the option to buy the dragon directly with gems. In this case, certain (unlikely) circumstances might make having the third egg in each habitat actually matter. Is that likely? No. But we don't actually know for sure.

As I said in my first response, "People who don't get the third rift dragon egg in each habitat aren't 100% sure that they won't be missing out on something in the end (no matter how convincing the arguments are that various people have laid out, no one is 100% sure)." I said right in that sentence that people (implying you, but not wanting to call you out) had laid out good arguments that in this case, hopefully no one would miss out. I even said in my next post that I agreed that it is probable that no one will miss out. But the fact is that in the end you are just guessing when you say that (unless you work for BFS and I don't know), and regardless of whether or not you end up being proven right when the event ends does not mean that it is a good thing for players to not know whether abstaining from spending money will cause them to miss out forever on something in the game.

What I said in my first post, my second post, and apparently need to repeat a third time, is that "it does seem like a fairly safe bet that people who didn't spend money to get 3 rift eggs in each habitat won't miss out on anything this time around, but it's quite possible that collectors will be forced to choose between spending money and forever missing out on something during the next event, or the one after that. I understand and accept that they have a business to run, but I don't have to like it or hope that things continue down this path." To me is seems obvious that any uncertainty about whether a player will achieve a reward tier before the time runs out (or uncertainty about whether a player will miss out forever if he doesn't achieve a certain reward tier) is a great way to get people to spend money that they would otherwise only spend as a last resort. When a player knows he can only get 3000 magic per day, he knows he can't wait until the last day and then simply buy whatever goals he has yet to achieve before the event ends; therefore, players are constantly uncertain about whether their pace is fast enough and whether they should or shouldn't spend money to achieve rewards (not necessarily the final reward tier, but simply just the reward tiers they want to achieve) faster. Add that to the general uncertainty about whether the final reward tier is important to achieve or not, and any player who is serious about their collection has the right to not be so happy-go-lucky as you.

With regard to this event, I think your guess will probably be proven right and that no one will miss out if they don't get a third egg in each habitat. That doesn't mean I like this general model of event where I can't know for sure that my collection will be complete unless I spend money to achieve the highest reward tiers. And if there is another event, you yourself might not be so sure for that event that the final reward tiers are unnecessary. I can easily imagine a future event where each of the highest reward tiers offer unique dragons and might even be relatively easier to achieve, but players will only have time/magic to achieve one of the final reward tiers/unique dragons without spending money.

All of the above is why I don't like the uncertainty of this event, and I don't like where this event could easily lead in the future.
The Leap Year Dragon was released for a handful of days at the end of February last year. There are a lot more people that didn't get that dragon because of the short breeding window then in this comp, and it wasn't going to return for 4 years, essentially meaning players then would miss out. Breeding non stop, speeding up fails, etc, people still missed out. This whole comp is handled way better than that situation. To suggest that not knowing here what is happening with the 3rd Rift Egg is different to people not knowing if the next breeding attempt would result in a LYD is false. And since then we have learned that dragons come back in limited events, so to suggest that people might miss out on something exclusive here is also not born out by past experience. To not want them to do another event because of what they might do is worrying for nothing. It's trying to diminish future possibilities because of unfounded concerns.
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Fletch_smf
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swablueme
Nov 1 2013, 12:28 AM
To me, Backflip deliberately withheld information to see whether players would spend more money if they had knowledge or if they spent more money without it. It builds up hype.

Think about the first thing we do when a dragon is first released. We test loads and loads of combos to find one that works. In other words, we usually know exactly what to predict and expect.

In this case, there is no element of prediction or expectation. We are as much in the dark as anybody else. Well yes, you could establish the various cost levels of the various rewards and test what you can do to get those rewards.

But lol, we can't compensate for the grinding that the other players have to do. So you know how to get the rewards and then it becomes up to you to get them.

So get all your players to logon every single day so there is more of a chance someone spends money. Because otherwise they have no chance at the rewards. Then give them the small perk of being able to gain decent quantities of magic at the beginning. Then heavily penalise them until they can't do anything except plant shrubs for 1 magic and hope that that amount of frustration gets them to spend money on the game either on gems or magic. Rinse and repeat.

Then to increase anxiety, shove a bar without numbers at the top of their park and get them to play the game of will they/won't they. You don't even know what each segment represents in terms of numbers. It might be smaller, it might be larger. Oh, and it's the countdown to doomsday. And past doomsday, you can't upgrade anything. We want people to freak out, ok? And because people aren't panicking enough, we set up double magic weekend. And double magic weekend came with a treat and a sting in the tail. The treat is a small amount of double magic. The sting is that mostly gem speedups and stuff were boosted. The shrub grinding - how most non-paying players were getting the magic - were not boosted.

And that was how the cash cow was milked.

The event was a great one apart from the fact that it consisted basically of a gigantic timer and some additional hard to earn currency. That's all it consisted of, really, because all the dragons already existed: they could have just released them sparing us the frustration.
The mood amongst the long term players was one of boredom. They were collecting the dragons released out of habit but there was nothing new in the game. There was a lot of talk that BFS were focused on the new players, and they had given up worrying about new goals for the old timers. Just releasing two new elements, like they did with Metal, would have been evidence of exactly that. Instead, the put a butt load of work into creating a spectacular event to engage the whole player base. This has been nothing but great for the game.
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there be dragons

On Thursday, October 24th, BFS changed the max magic per day to 4000. It has remained at that level ever since.

Emails from customer service last week claim that the level is 3000 and was raised to 6000 for the first double magic weekend. However, this is incorrect.

Trust me bush farmers and other knowledge people know that the maxperday is 4000.
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Womantrarae

Anyone else having difficulties with Treasure Chests? For the last 6 hours, at least, treasure chests and breeding Hearts are not disappearing when tapped, although collection totals and magic accumulation proceed as usual. Is this a pre-crash warning or a harmless glitch? Loading is s l o w e r, too.
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Suncrusher
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Fletch_smf
Nov 2 2013, 04:55 AM
The Leap Year Dragon was released for a handful of days at the end of February last year. There are a lot more people that didn't get that dragon because of the short breeding window then in this comp, and it wasn't going to return for 4 years, essentially meaning players then would miss out. Breeding non stop, speeding up fails, etc, people still missed out. This whole comp is handled way better than that situation. To suggest that not knowing here what is happening with the 3rd Rift Egg is different to people not knowing if the next breeding attempt would result in a LYD is false. And since then we have learned that dragons come back in limited events, so to suggest that people might miss out on something exclusive here is also not born out by past experience. To not want them to do another event because of what they might do is worrying for nothing. It's trying to diminish future possibilities because of unfounded concerns.
You could buy a leap year dragon directly with gems (at least, you could during the christmas special; I wasn't around for the first time they were released). I wasn't talking about speeding up fails with real money, I was saying that when players know exactly when a dragon will suddenly be unavailable, they can simply buy the dragon directly rather than missing out forever. Therefore, previously players have always had the information they needed to decide whether to spend real money on the game. So unless Leap Year Dragons were not available to buy in the market during their original run, then I never suggested that "not knowing here what is happening with the 3rd Rift Egg is different to people not knowing if the next breeding attempt would result in a LYD."
Edited by Suncrusher, Nov 2 2013, 09:34 AM.
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