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| Tweet Topic Started: 14th April 2010 - 06:05 PM (492 Views) | |
| photopro | 14th April 2010 - 06:05 PM Post #1 |
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photopro |
![]() Shotgun Certificate & Firearms Certificate Section 1, DSC1 & DSC2 also DCS Registered. Forestry Commission Deer Management Licence Holder | |
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| magman | 14th April 2010 - 07:47 PM Post #2 |
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So when was the last time you shot there ? or are you making a bid
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| monkey hanger | 14th April 2010 - 08:08 PM Post #3 |
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Hunter World Supporter
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a money making scheme that has turned into a "need" and a good excuse by plod to refuse or place restrictions / conditions no doubt in the future, here is the next instalment of must have's coming your way soon? MH http://www.lantra-awards.co.uk/catalogue/fox_control_centrefirerifle.aspx |
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| john robbo | 14th April 2010 - 10:25 PM Post #4 |
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Angel Of Death
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I actually see no problem in the training and test as it will give everybody based with firearms the knowledge to make decisions about their chosen sport. Rifle, scope, balistics, safe, un safe etc etc. I am in a position in both of my jobs to see and speak to many shooters with varying experience. I am sometimes "blown away"(excuse the pun) at their lack of knowledge with firearms to be walking around with a C.F. rifle or any weapon. I also see things on game shoots which should never be seen. I am sorry for all of us whov'e been doing things our way for years but I see this as the way forward. And before anyone asks NO I will not be involved with the training but would consider taking the course and if it came compulsory (which I think it should) would without question be at the start of the que. It would also educate the "halogen stalkers" and slow down illegal activities involving the lamp. maybe there should be 1 for shotgun activities last year alone i witnessed 2 accidents where people were hit by shotgun pellets 1 very seriously. (by a very embarrassed firearms officer (ret.) on a grouse moor) The other victim was me again on a grouse moor but the pellets only bruised me. |
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| finnlight | 15th April 2010 - 07:07 PM Post #5 |
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Halogen stalkers John!!! Now there's terminology that would make a few lads cringe |
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| john robbo | 15th April 2010 - 07:08 PM Post #6 |
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Angel Of Death
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we know who we mean and they know who they are. EH nick
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| finnlight | 15th April 2010 - 09:12 PM Post #7 |
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We certainly do mate |
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| Nige | 16th April 2010 - 03:10 PM Post #8 |
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Resident Carpenter
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MH - the training course in the link that you provided, is very similar to the requirements to hold an FAC in New Zealand. The difference, however, is that the training, and testing there, is carried out by the Police, at the applicants expense, rather than by third party money chasers. |
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Location :- Hull Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat! Don't let your mind wander - it's too little to be let out alone! | |
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| slimwilly | 16th April 2010 - 05:55 PM Post #9 |
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Don't take the pith
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The debate about having to pay someone, privateer or police , for the qualification is pointless,, but the debate about having to be qualified is probably the same as when drivers were told they had to be qualified,licenced. WHo gives a sh*t,,get on with it,
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Treat every day as its the last,,,one day it will be ! | |
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| monkey hanger | 16th April 2010 - 11:25 PM Post #10 |
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Hunter World Supporter
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that's the attitude that has got us into the "must have " then of course the unwritten and not challenged add on by plod of a mentor etc etc, so who gives a **** I DO, and so should other shooters there are enough people out there trying to restrict or stop us, without us doing it ourselves, in the case of deer specifically it has been done as an aid to some sort of elitism and egotistic one upmanship, sadly it now looks like other area's of the sport are latching on, no doubt the money side of things will win over common sense. MH |
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| slimwilly | 17th April 2010 - 07:30 AM Post #11 |
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Don't take the pith
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We are supposed to believe it will root out the wrong type,meaning unsafe,untrained.And those who comply are thus educated to be safe shots and know the sport. Butt========talking the other day a mate told me of a pheasant shoot ,very local ,farm shoot,where TWO,yes TWO deer were shot with twelve bores with pheasant shot.I dont think any form of licence will make any difference to that sort. If i was to take up shooting a deer then without knowing what i have learned on here about the sport and DSC then i would of thought i was able to go and take a deer, only needing to know the season dates,but i now know there is a hell of alot to learn,,thats if you want to learn. |
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Treat every day as its the last,,,one day it will be ! | |
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| john robbo | 18th April 2010 - 07:35 PM Post #12 |
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Angel Of Death
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M.H. may i ask you BEFORE you did your dsc1 did you know what T.B. looked like in a deer. I myself had probably shot 200 deer before 1999 when I did mine and thought myself an expert. Never saw T.B. in any deer..... But then i never knew where to look. Like it or lump it deer can carry T.B. (and do) we have to know it. Nothing to do with eliteism, if you met me you'd soon find out im no snob or elite chap.
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| martin | 18th April 2010 - 07:52 PM Post #13 |
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Thats true he eat fish & chips out of the paper and in the street at that Thanks for the Brass John
Edited by martin, 18th April 2010 - 07:54 PM.
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| photopro | 18th April 2010 - 11:38 PM Post #14 |
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....and he'd pinch a chip if you weren't looking. photopro |
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| john robbo | 21st April 2010 - 02:12 PM Post #15 |
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Angel Of Death
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Monkey Hanger a reply to this question would be nice it was asked in view of the topic and asked in a polite manner. Did you know before your DSC1 what T.B. looked like in deer or that they could even carry such a disease and that it was a notifiable disease. |
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| Nige | 22nd April 2010 - 10:45 AM Post #16 |
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Resident Carpenter
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As far as I am aware, TB can be carried by ANY mammal - how many rabbit shooters know what TB looks like in a bunny? How many fox shooters know what TB looks like in a fox? (Yes I know foxes don't go into the food chain!) |
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Location :- Hull Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat! Don't let your mind wander - it's too little to be let out alone! | |
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| photopro | 22nd April 2010 - 11:55 AM Post #17 |
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There are several strains of TB, rabbits are thought to mainly catch the disease from mice. It is mandatory to inform Natural England (Defra) if a deer is suspected of carrying TB, I don't think there is any such legislation regarding rabbits. Bearing that in mind if venson was supplied and then found to be infected with TB, ignorance would not be an excuse. If you knew what to look for but missed the syptoms that has to be a better position than supplying vension and being totally oblivious to any disease. photopro |
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| Nige | 22nd April 2010 - 09:32 PM Post #18 |
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Resident Carpenter
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I think I would take the opposite view, Pro. If you knew what to look for, and missed the symptoms, then that shows, either lack of due diligence, negligence, poor training/assessment, or just laziness. If someone has the qualification, and then misses the obvious problem, how is that a better position than someone who is ignorant of the obvious problem? To use an analogy, how would your argument stand if a doctor missed symptoms in a human, and treated them incorrectly? Would he be in a better, or worse position than someone who had done a basic first aid at work course? |
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Location :- Hull Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat! Don't let your mind wander - it's too little to be let out alone! | |
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| photopro | 22nd April 2010 - 09:55 PM Post #19 |
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A doctor is being paid a high salary to know and goes through a far longer and more intense training. If people wish to put meat into the food chain they should be obliged to take training of some sort, ignorance in rarely and not in this case an excuse.
No it's not that straightforward. TB especially in the early stages is not that easy to identify - surely it is better to pick up at least some cases than not to even look in the first place ? photopro |
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| Nige | 22nd April 2010 - 10:16 PM Post #20 |
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Resident Carpenter
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I'm not arguing against looking, in order to prevent TB infected meat getting into the food chain, but, if it is difficult to spot (in the early stages at least) that's a bit of a get out clause for anyone who spots it, but still wants to make money! "This animal had early stage TB!" "Oh sorry mate, I didn't spot it!" "Well, you're highly trained DSC2, easy mistake to make!" Or would it be - "Well, you're highly trained DSC2, we're gonna prosecute!" |
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Location :- Hull Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat! Don't let your mind wander - it's too little to be let out alone! | |
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| john robbo | 22nd April 2010 - 10:24 PM Post #21 |
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Angel Of Death
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Blue tongue and foot and mouth are notifiable diseases I just used t.b. as an example dont think fox or rabbit carry either. The point i was making was i didn't even know there was notifiable diseases and you are suposed to have your small game hygine ticket now to sell rabbits pigeons and game. |
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| photopro | 22nd April 2010 - 11:55 PM Post #22 |
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I think you are playing "Devil's Advocate" Nige. photopro |
![]() Shotgun Certificate & Firearms Certificate Section 1, DSC1 & DSC2 also DCS Registered. Forestry Commission Deer Management Licence Holder | |
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| Nige | 23rd April 2010 - 06:28 PM Post #23 |
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Resident Carpenter
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Am I doing a good job as Devils advocate then, Pro?By the way JR, the requirement for a game dealers licence for small game was repealed in summer (August) 2007. The person selling the game, is, however, responsible for the condition of the meat, from the moment (s)he shoots/traps it, up to time he has sold/delivered it. |
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Location :- Hull Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat! Don't let your mind wander - it's too little to be let out alone! | |
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| photopro | 23rd April 2010 - 08:10 PM Post #24 |
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Good or bad it makes no difference. photopro |
![]() Shotgun Certificate & Firearms Certificate Section 1, DSC1 & DSC2 also DCS Registered. Forestry Commission Deer Management Licence Holder | |
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| john robbo | 4th March 2011 - 06:12 PM Post #25 |
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Angel Of Death
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http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/03/03100802 |
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| 1543martin | 5th March 2011 - 12:17 AM Post #26 |
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'Vermin Dropper'
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Just for info,there is a course you can take that covers exactly what you are talking about John,but,at £110 it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the DSC1&2 it is........... 'The Game Meat Hygiene Course' which gives you a Hunter Licence number,and this enables you to buy and sell game meat pretty much with impunity. Martin |
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| photopro | 5th March 2011 - 12:54 AM Post #27 |
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The number would certainly give you the OK to sell into the food chain however for some of the leased or paid shooting it would not be enough so ultimately it would be a case of biting the bullet and doing the DSC1 & DSC2. It wouldn't surprise me if the DSC1 became deer grant compulsory on the back of the reforms prompted by the Cumbria shootings. photopro |
![]() Shotgun Certificate & Firearms Certificate Section 1, DSC1 & DSC2 also DCS Registered. Forestry Commission Deer Management Licence Holder | |
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| jimmy milnes | 5th March 2011 - 11:38 AM Post #28 |
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hi all, i aggree that people need to be trained to use a firearm for obvious reasons and feel that making people do the DMQ1 before being granted a deer caliber could be a good thing because of what you learn about deer, but as the rifle used in the cumbria shootings was a non deer cal i feel that to make a condition such as this and use the excuse that its because of cumbrian shootings is just a cheap cop out to try to restrict the legal use/ownership of firearms "for EG. the laws restricting handguns havent made a decrease in the use of them in crime", just because some one has payed a lump of money and attended/passed the course doesent mean they wont blow their main fuse, as im sure some of you are aware i live in pontefract where its only a few years since a man highly trained with firearms "ex UKSF" was working at the local hospital had a fall out with his nurse girl friend and shot her, hence my opinion that training wouldnt stop theses unfortunate incidents from happening. lets look at the swiss as ive just been reading about them regards their government trying to restrict the firearms in the country, as im led to believe "will gladly be corrected if im wrong" that they have a conscript system and after you have done your time you stay on the reserve list incase your needed and because of this you are given your service rifle to keep at home, now surely thats a hell of a lot of firearms in the country and we dont see these kind of problems ariseing "again please correct me if im wrong" well if you havent got bored with my rant and have actualy managed to read it to this point many thanks and i hope i managed to make sence haha all the best jimmy |
| ITS NOT THE YEARS IN YOUR LIFE BUT THE LIFE IN YOUR YEARS | |
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| Danger Mouse | 5th March 2011 - 02:01 PM Post #29 |
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Resident Sea Fishing and Pest Control expert
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Jimmy, I agree with what you say, but the DSC route is growing all the time, love it or loath it it's here to stay and is getting adopted by more and more land managers / owners. It won't be long before DSC will be the only way to get considered for a lease from a big organisation. |
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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| john robbo | 5th March 2011 - 02:03 PM Post #30 |
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Angel Of Death
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Andy, Jimmy, i also think that insurers will eventually want to see training in "best practice" for you to be covered in the field. |
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| Danger Mouse | 5th March 2011 - 02:05 PM Post #31 |
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You might be right there John, that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!
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Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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| jimmy milnes | 5th March 2011 - 03:16 PM Post #32 |
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yes guys i agree that training is a good thing and i wish to take my level 2 at the earliest opportunity, but the point i was trying to put over was that it would be wrong of the government to try to use the recent incidents to force people to take the courses under the guise that it will stop these incidents from happening. now if they came out and said in order to try to cut back/stop people having there legal right to own a firearm so long as they have a justified use for it we are going to make people sit an exam and undergo a period of training to try to make them more firearm aware all well and good but they wont they just try to vote win all the time by using media histerior to better their angle "hunting with dogs act" dangerous dogs act" both brought in to appease the voter and neither of which have made a blind bit of difference to anything subarus still drive over fields on a night setting half a dozen dogs on something, and drug dealers still walk round with carpets under their arms and a "irish staffordshire" on a lead. my point to this rant guys sorry for going on but its for gods sake cant the government just say what they mean for once and dont use incidents as an excuse to get what they have wanted for ages sorry rant over guys jimmy Edited by jimmy milnes, 5th March 2011 - 03:23 PM.
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| ITS NOT THE YEARS IN YOUR LIFE BUT THE LIFE IN YOUR YEARS | |
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| Danger Mouse | 5th March 2011 - 03:31 PM Post #33 |
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Oh I see..
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Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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| john robbo | 5th March 2011 - 03:37 PM Post #34 |
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Angel Of Death
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Agreed Jimmy. But I also think a "trained hunter" system should be in place for suppling meat, and also a general safety/firearms understanding course (1day) should be implemented for ALL firearm users.(or dsc1) The other day I had a lovely chap out he was 68. He said he had shot 336 deer since starting in 1986. As he had had 7 hip replacements we waited in ambush rather than stalked. We chatted quietly. He asked me about the dsc's and said all his deer had gone into the food chain and he hadn't had any problems from this. He also asked was there a "grandfathers rights" for this as he said he should qualify. Ok I said so what does possible t.b. look like, and what would you do with this deer? He was puzzled, "local deer he said are always very clean he replied". The point I'm making is if you know it prove it and get the useless bits of paper, they make good draft excluders if nothing else. In todays world we have to justify what we do and why, knowing about your gun and quarry helps prove we have half an idea what we are doing. |
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| photopro | 6th March 2011 - 02:32 AM Post #35 |
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The general public doesn't know the difference between a 22RF and an elephant gun, the rifle used in the Cumbria shootings was described as a huge rifle by a number of eye witnesses and reporters and as we know that was a 22RF. So even though a rabbit gun may have prompted the gun review it is unlikely that it will only affect rabbit guns or 22RF rifles. To some degree it is fortunate that Cameron is a keen deer stalker presumably with his own deer calibre rifle, maybe a small amount of common sense will creep into the "review" this time unlike the previous two knee-jerk efforts - not that we need another bloody review. You are right about gun ownership in Switzerland Jimmy however a stat they aren't too proud about is that they have the highest gun related suicide rate in Europe .Politicians will always jump on the bandwagon it raises their public profile and come election time gives them something to crow about over their rivals. photopro |
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| fallowmoor | 6th March 2011 - 01:22 PM Post #36 |
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Wisper it very quietly guys but fallowmoor is seriously thinking about taking the dreaded draft excluder sometime in May. |
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| Danger Mouse | 6th March 2011 - 01:27 PM Post #37 |
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WOW.. You'll have no problem there FM. But what's brought this on?
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Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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| fallowmoor | 6th March 2011 - 01:31 PM Post #38 |
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Advanced Member
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Lost my main bit of stalking ground pal. I may have to look north of the border for a syndicate place. Peed off but there is nothing I can do about it. |
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| john robbo | 6th March 2011 - 01:31 PM Post #39 |
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Angel Of Death
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You'll sail it steve, give me the nod for the no.2 Though I have a big southern company wanting me to start doing no.1's with them up here. I'm seeing them soon about it, watch this space. |
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| Danger Mouse | 6th March 2011 - 01:36 PM Post #40 |
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Gutted for you mate, is that the land that has just been sold? |
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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