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More misses; bucks fever V's MOA
Topic Started: 10th August 2010 - 07:55 PM (320 Views)
john robbo
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Tack drivers Pahhh.
I like you love to see my rilfes go sub MOA and they do, but what use are clover leaf groups worth if your nerve is gone when a buck stands 30-140m's from you??
This might seem a strange question but my run of luck lately has prompted this.
Usually misses average for my clients less than 10% not bad to say 85% of shots are taken standing off sticks.
During the rut its all gone wrong (for want of a better word).9 bucks missed and 7 killed clean, (thankfully none wounded) since 1st August.
Now a roe takes some missing "clean" why none wounded??
Guns checked and ok. Pilot error why so many misses??
Not shooting through cover,open grasses and stubble.
Should these boys be practicing more before coming or is it just the fever.
Have any of you come accross such a run of misses.??
Not trying to upset clients or cause embarresment just thought this might be interesting and a little different from the same old threads on here of late.
All guns in new and zeroed condition.
Tack drivers are great but give me a man who can hit a 4 inch circle under pressure anyday.
regards john.
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photopro
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I wonder if there is a case for setting up a 100yds test target of say 8" with an inner 4" circle, it should be no trouble hitting the 4" at this distance but it would put your clients under at least some pressure if they thought missing the inner circle would mean they would only be allowed a shot at much closer deer. I know it wouldn't work with all clients but it may be effective with some.

-HB- -Eat Lead- *Roe Buck*

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john robbo
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All "new" clients are required to shoot my steel deer target with a 4" kill zone off the sticks.
Most do ok its when faced with a real deer things change.
But NON really practice off sticks.
Last year MAX was struggling to shoot well off sticks we went rabbiting with the HMR's for 3 evenings all off sticks.
He can now shoot the bo***cks off a gnat at 100m's with his .243 PRACTICE makes perfect he just needs to see deer now. LOL
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hawkeye
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1543martin
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Well,I don't profess to know why these 'Stalkers' are missing deer at those sort of ranges,but,we all miss now and again.My question is,how many misses do you let someone make before kicking their &rse off the land.It may seem a bit tough,but,when you are punching paper it doesn't have any ramifications at all if you miss,or even just clip the outside of the target,but,with a living creature in front of you,well you need to be able to turn off the nerves and do the business.If you are unable to do this,then you are in the wrong sport.....end of!

Martin
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Danger Mouse
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Is it pilot error though John? The reason that I say this is that if the rounds are crap (al la Privvy) and you have had a bad batch look at what can happen, look at what happened to Lee when he came up here. He missed a cracking buch from 80 yards when out with me and you know what happened when he was out in the evening, he was using Privvy rounds, yet on the targets they did seem to work or was that luck? Food for thought!
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? ....... He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

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magman
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if i had to guess John i would say a snatched trigger instead of a gentle squeeze *Monkey Hanger*
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john robbo
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magman
11th August 2010 - 07:37 PM
if i had to guess John i would say a snatched trigger instead of a gentle squeeze *Monkey Hanger*
Agreed M.M.
and I use privvi all the time with no problems but then its soft point NOT target stuff like lee.
And Martin 2 strikes and your out.
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photopro
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I wonder what trigger weight these rifles are set at, some may need adjusting.

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john robbo
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No 2 were set triggers Steyrs.
another a sako and lastly T3's
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john robbo
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Had a chap miss a broadside buck this morning, possible silver medal off his bipod at 30m's.
Now thats bucks fever.
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photopro
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A miss 30m off a bipod is a difficult one to explain away, what did he say ? Was he shooting it as an agreed silver medal trophy ? **huh**

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john robbo
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photopro
17th August 2010 - 12:52 AM
A miss 30m off a bipod is a difficult one to explain away, what did he say ? Was he shooting it as an agreed silver medal trophy ? **huh**

photopro
Yes the deer was targeted as a medal bronze minimum.
Said the deer dashed off a split second before he pulled the trigger??
BUCKS FEVER.
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fallowmoor
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Now theres an expensive miss!!! -HB-
Edited by fallowmoor, 17th August 2010 - 10:16 AM.
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john robbo
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He rung me today and this is what he said,
"I had the crosshairs on his head an when i saw the size of those antlers thought it may well go silver.
Thinking that would be very expensive decided to fire a shot over its back to say at least I've had a shot".
He will not be coming back needless to say.
I cannot believe these things happen or can even be said without regret.
Think I've seen it all NO WAY.
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photopro
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Pulling out of taking the shot is always the prerogative of the stalker as I'm sure you will agree but if the deal was you putting him onto a medal head which you did then really there is some negotiation still required over a deliberate miss. I find it hard to believe he deliberately shot over it's back, why not click the safety back on and take the rifle off the target ?
You are going to meet people like this - he won't be the last - at least you did all that was asked of you.

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Karl
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To me thats sounds a bit of a lame excuse,to justify a bad shot -angry2- -angry2- -angry2- -angry2-
If there was a problem then as you say pro,Put the safety back on get out the camera and take a photo,and remember the Bullseye saying,"This is what you could have won"
We all know that everyone can pull a shot and miss,BUT you should never aim to miss!!!!! *spank* *spank*
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Hw60Sniper
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So JR can I take it from this post that the better the buck the more expensive the stalk .Sorry for the newbie question but still cant believe someone would shoot off rather than just not shoot atol. -HB-
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tjwaines
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Yeah everyone can miss unintentionally, we all have, Karl even missed one 3 times before he hit it the 4th time up at mine once. After checking zero rifle was fine and that was only on does, so no bucks fever. Dunno why I brought that up mate but just thought I would. But to miss intentionally, is unforgivable, what if he'd pulled the missing shot and wounded the deer. Such a ridiculous thing to do!
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john robbo
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The bigger the head the more trophy value.
the stalk costs the same its the beast which costs more.
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madmanx
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I checked some factory Privvi down at the range on the chrono the other night down at the range (140 grain 6.5x55) with coopermans Tikka and we had over 100FPS difference between shots from the same batch also they were only just reaching 2300 FPS which is just Deer legal also 2 shots would be touching each other followed by one two inches away .I know people like privi and it works well for many people,but with what I have seen down at the range I wouldn't ever shoot at a Deer with it,there is no consistency to Privi Ammo and I think the main reason people "like it"is because it's cheap,it's cheap for a reason!This is my opinion of Privi ammo based on what I have seen in General and I know many people will disagree but this is why we live in a democracy.
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Karl
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tjwaines
18th August 2010 - 08:06 PM
Yeah everyone can miss unintentionally, we all have, Karl even missed one 3 times before he hit it the 4th time up at mine once. After checking zero rifle was fine and that was only on does, so no bucks fever. Dunno why I brought that up mate but just thought I would.
Yeah Tom I dont why you brought that up,Its a bit like that VERY LARGE red hind that you completely missed,I surpose everyone can have a bad day just some more than others.But deffo can't condone a shot to miss ***wist***
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john robbo
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madmanx
18th August 2010 - 10:29 PM
I checked some factory Privvi down at the range on the chrono the other night down at the range (140 grain 6.5x55) with coopermans Tikka and we had over 100FPS difference between shots from the same batch also they were only just reaching 2300 FPS which is just Deer legal also 2 shots would be touching each other followed by one two inches away .I know people like privi and it works well for many people,but with what I have seen down at the range I wouldn't ever shoot at a Deer with it,there is no consistency to Privi Ammo and I think the main reason people "like it"is because it's cheap,it's cheap for a reason!This is my opinion of Privi ammo based on what I have seen in General and I know many people will disagree but this is why we live in a democracy.
it shoots great in all my rifles and im on the range plenty to see theres no flyers.
just deer legal is legal, and the deer dont care much and for shots at sub 140m's a 4 inch group will kill all your deer.
To much is read into tiny groups under field conditions most people struggle with a 4 inch circle and 8 if off the sticks.
Keep the range short keep the shots into the boiler room and stalk in and take your time and you will put plenty of venison on your plate.
I have seen deer and targets shot with every kind of ammo and if it shoots in your gun then fine.
I would rather be out with a confident field shot with a rifle what will print a 3 inch group off sticks then a "target" shooter who has a gun which will shoot 1/2 inch groups off a bipod but is useless off sticks or cannot stalk and insists on culling deer at 100's of yards off his pod.
Just my opinion.
Any decent ammo with a good marksman and fieldcraft WILL put deer on the grass.
This thirst for stalking rifles doing tiny groups is poppy cock.(though all my rifles will shoot tiny groups on paper) its abilities in the field what count.
The now 35 misses this year now is testement to this fact.
All those guns will probably shoot inch groups on a poor day never mind a good day so how come they cant hit a deers chest even at 30m's????????????????????????????????????
Nothing to do with ammo.
Remember thats MORE misses I've seen this year than most people shoot deer in 10 years. (267 outings this year so far)(believe me steve BAD ammo has not caused 1 miss).
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madmanx
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Just wondering John,how many of the people that missed had never shot a deer before?
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john robbo
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PROBABLY 2 OR 3.
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gadget
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Hi john, sounds like you need to start charging for missed shots £20 might help them take there time and think before they pull the trigger, and the bloke that told you he shot over the bucks back should be named and shamed, i have never heard something so discracful and if it was a lame excuse because he couldent afford the shot then thats a very bad excuse.

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Nige
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Not going off topic, with airguns, it is well known that the higher the quality of pellet used, the better your shooting will be (even with a low/mid range quality rifle) so I would assume that the same principle would hold true for centre/rimfire ammunition .
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john robbo
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To a point Nige regarding accuracy.
But cheap bullets can shoot very well its how they perform on game can often let them down.
To hard or soft so this effects shock abilities and penetration.
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