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The Dark Ages; A Medieval Nation Roleplay
Topic Started: 6 Apr 2016, 09:59 (1,658 Views)
Greater New Poland
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Holy Fuck

Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 05:05
Greater New Poland
13 May 2016, 03:32
Tracian Empire
11 May 2016, 14:48
Also, a little reminder. ICly, do not refer to the Byzantine Empire as "Byzantine". The term, invented by the Western historians, did not exist at the time. You can refer to it as either the Roman Empire, or the Greek Empire if you want to insult it.
I'll change my posts to Byzantium and Greeks. Is that okay?
Please avoid calling them anything related to Byzantium. It's just that the term didn't exist at the time. The first time it was used was in 1557.

You can use the term which was widely used at the time, Romania. It has no connection to the current Romania, it simply means the land of the Romans.
Fine, I'll be calling "Byzantium" as the Greek Empire. Give me a few min to change it.
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Greater New Poland
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Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 05:06
Also, GNP, it might be difficult for your delegate to negotiate with the Emperor, as he is currently in Bulgaria...
Fine, the 1st prince (or whatever his title) will do.
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Greater New Poland
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Savalen
13 May 2016, 04:41
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 00:26
Please everyone, Romans, or Greeks. Not Byzantines.
I did?

GNP what do you want from negotiations?
Literally a non aggression pact, plus more trade. Depending on how it evolves, maybe a proper alliance later.
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Kalmar Union
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Greater New Poland
13 May 2016, 11:48
Savalen
13 May 2016, 04:41
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 00:26
Please everyone, Romans, or Greeks. Not Byzantines.
I did?

GNP what do you want from negotiations?
Literally a non aggression pact, plus more trade. Depending on how it evolves, maybe a proper alliance later.
Weren't you also going to send a diplomatic envoy to Rome regarding our allegiances to the Eastern Roman Empire, our future relations etc.?
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Tracian Empire
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Nardin
13 May 2016, 11:28
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 09:52
I changed the Roman imperial family a little bit. John Komnenos is 16 years old, and Michael, the self-invented second son of Alexios is 14 years old.
Michael seems a bit young to be handling matters of diplomacy, even if he is a well tutored member of the royal house.

Not sure if he'll be able to deal with the Rus delegation effectively, but we shall see.
He will obviously not be dealing with it on his own, after all, the Roman Empire is the only nation who has a strong centralized administration. Together with the Empress, he's holding the place of the Basileus while he's gone, Alexios will return before the end of the negotiations.

However, we're in the Middle Ages. His age is enough to be named a Despot, and as a purple born Prince, he has been prepared to rule for his entire life.
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Greater New Poland
13 May 2016, 11:47
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 05:06
Also, GNP, it might be difficult for your delegate to negotiate with the Emperor, as he is currently in Bulgaria...
Fine, the 1st prince (or whatever his title) will do.
Second Prince, and Despot. He'll be assisted by the Basillissa and the court.

The Byzantines were masters in diplomacy after all.
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Greater New Poland
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Holy Fuck

Kalmar Unionen
13 May 2016, 12:34
Greater New Poland
13 May 2016, 11:48
Savalen
13 May 2016, 04:41
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 00:26
Please everyone, Romans, or Greeks. Not Byzantines.
I did?

GNP what do you want from negotiations?
Literally a non aggression pact, plus more trade. Depending on how it evolves, maybe a proper alliance later.
Weren't you also going to send a diplomatic envoy to Rome regarding our allegiances to the Eastern Roman Empire, our future relations etc.?
Rome is too far away atm, but I might send a person to Rome in my next post. Also, do remember that most people in the Russian court is hostile and wary of the Catholic Church (as seem in my last post). Most likely this person is of less importance to the King, and him not making to Rome is expected. Rus' is much more interested in Poland than to is in Rome to be honest.
Edited by Greater New Poland, 14 May 2016, 00:32.
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Greater New Poland
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Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 12:50
Greater New Poland
13 May 2016, 11:47
Tracian Empire
13 May 2016, 05:06
Also, GNP, it might be difficult for your delegate to negotiate with the Emperor, as he is currently in Bulgaria...
Fine, the 1st prince (or whatever his title) will do.
Second Prince, and Despot. He'll be assisted by the Basillissa and the court.

The Byzantines were masters in diplomacy after all.
Against a person with a lot of experience dealing with the Greeks, it'll be VERY interesting to see how this end out, or if a relationship could be maintained at all.
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Mapleston
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Full Nation Name: Kingdom of England, Royaume d'Angleterre, Regno Angliæ

Short Nation Name: England, Angleterre, Anglia

National Flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_England.svg

Territory: http://i.imgur.com/WrjFh3K.png In dark-ish Red.

Official Language(s): English, Anglo-Norman (French), Latin

Form of Government: Unitary parliamentary monarchy

Head of State: William II, Dei Gratia Rex Anglorum (By the Grace of God King of the English)

Capital City: Winchester (in the process of relocating to London)

Population: 470,000 (Estimate based on a historical one. For more info, check the Kingdom of England page in Wikipedia)

Religion: Roman Catholicism

Army: The English Army is composed of 15,000 men in wartime, but is reduced to a minimum during peacetime. The armies of the period comprised bodies of mounted, armoured knights, supported by infantry. Crossbowmen become more numerous in the twelfth century, alongside the older shortbow. At the heart of these armies was the familia regis, the permanent military household of the king, which was supported in war by feudal levies, drawn up by local nobles for a limited period of service during a campaign. Mercenaries were increasingly employed, driving up the cost of warfare, and adequate supplies of ready cash became essential for the success of campaigns. Also possessing sizable elite longbowmen which are deadly in range. Doctrine and strategies are focused towards raids and attrition battles, while considering pitched battles to be risky by some commanders.

Navy: The English Navy is in the process of building up its strength, whilst blockading the Welsh, keeping the Norwegians (the Frogs and the Irish) out and protecting the Kingdom from piracy and invasion. As of now, the Navy can field up to 150 ships. It currently plays an important role, enabling the transportation of troops and supplies, raids into hostile territory and attacks on enemy fleets.

Economic Strength: Sizable. The English economy was fundamentally agricultural, depending on growing crops such as wheat, barley and oats on an open field system, and husbanding sheep, cattle and pigs. Agricultural land became typically organised around manors, and was divided between some fields that the landowner would manage directly, called demesne land, and the majority of the fields that would be cultivated by local peasants. These peasants would pay rent to the landowner either through agricultural labour on the lord's demesne fields or through rent in the form of cash and produce. By the eleventh century, a market economy was flourishing across much of England, while the eastern and southern towns were heavily involved in international trade. Around 6,000 watermills were built to grind flour, freeing up labour for other more productive agricultural tasks.

Taxes were increased, however, and the Normans established extensive forests that were exploited for their natural resources and protected by royal laws. More land, much of it at the expense of the royal forests, was brought into production to feed the growing population and to produce wool for export to Europe. Many hundreds of new towns, some of them planned communities, were built across England, supporting the creation of guilds, charter fairs and other medieval institutions which governed the growing trade. Jewish financiers played a significant role in funding the growing economy, along with the new Cistercian and Augustinian religious orders that emerged as major players in the wool trade of the north. Mining increased in England, with a silver boom in the twelfth century helping to fuel the expansion of the money supply.

Foreign Policy: Cooperation with the Papal States, annexation of Wales, neutralist stance in Papal States-Holy Roman Empire dispute, destruction of the infidels, unification of the British Isles, including Ireland.

Infrastructure: Of the 10,000 miles of roads that had been built by the Romans, many remained in use and four were of particular strategic importance—the Icknield Way, the Fosse Way, Ermine Street and Watling Street—which criss-crossed the entire country. The road system was adequate for the needs of the period, although it was significantly cheaper to transport goods by water. The major river networks formed key transport routes, while many English towns formed navigable inland ports.

The Normans brought with them architectural styles from their own duchy, where austere stone churches were preferred. Under the early Norman kings this style was adapted to produce large, plain cathedrals with ribbed vaulting. During the twelfth century the Anglo-Norman style became richer and more ornate, with pointed arches derived from French architecture replacing the curved Romanesque designs; this style is termed Early English Gothic and continued, with variation, throughout the rest of the Middle Ages. In domestic architecture, the Normans, having first occupied the older Anglo-Saxon dwellings, rapidly beginning to build larger buildings in stone and timber. The elite preferred houses with large, ground-floor halls but the less wealthy constructed simpler houses with the halls on the first floor; master and servants frequently lived in the same spaces.Wealthier town-houses were also built using stone, and incorporated business and domestic arrangements into a single functional design.

Primary Goals: Unification of the British Isles, conquest of Ireland, survival of the Kingdom, expansion of French holdings, and destruction of the infidels.

History: I'm gonna stick to the IRL history until 1095 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_in_the_High_Middle_Ages#Normans

But with two exceptions:

1. After the dispute with Anselm, Archbishop of Canterbury about his reforms, King William II recanted his views and begged for the pope's forgiveness, which was given. Therefore, King William has made a commitment to change his behaviour and to cooperate with the Papal States.

2.The value of the longbow as a weapon was discovered during the reign of William the Conqueror, the predecessor of the King (and not during the 1400's IRL), but it was only used sparingly by some archers as it is not yet tested in actual battle.

RP Example: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=370907&sid=c444c5ee47e782be5ba05d1aeb4dbb35&start=100#p28098705

Sorry for the long app. Cheers in advance, Thrace.


Deus vult!

Edited by Mapleston, 16 May 2016, 06:20.
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Tracian Empire
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For one, you don't have why to be sorry for a long app. In fact, seeing such a well made and detailed app has just motivated me to work a little more on my Byzantine app.


The problem that could be would be the size of the army. I haven't checked on English medieval military numbers yet, so I might be wrong about it. But in this roleplay, for now at least, the largest player nations, the Rus' and the Byzantines, can each use about 20,000 men, with populations nearing 5 million. While their ability to gather only such a number of soldiers can be motivated by the problems each face( Byzantium is recovering after Manzikert, the Rus' are large and fragmented), I'd say that 20,500 men for England would be too high. Maybe 15,000? I can't seem to find historical numbers.
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Mapleston
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Tracian Empire
14 May 2016, 06:33
For one, you don't have why to be sorry for a long app. In fact, seeing such a well made and detailed app has just motivated me to work a little more on my Byzantine app.


The problem that could be would be the size of the army. I haven't checked on English medieval military numbers yet, so I might be wrong about it. But in this roleplay, for now at least, the largest player nations, the Rus' and the Romans (Byzantines), can each use about 20,000 men, with populations nearing 5 million. While their ability to gather only such a number of soldiers can be motivated by the problems each face( Byzantium is recovering after Manzikert, the Rus' are large and fragmented), I'd say that 20,500 men for England would be too high. Maybe 15,000? I can't seem to find historical numbers.
Thanks, Kamerad! I really did put my back into the app, which took me almost a day.

Anyways, the problem with the English Army during the days of the Normans, is that they were almost non-existent during peacetime. And in 1095, they were busy conquering Wales, and fighting Scotland, so they had an army then and it would be probably more than 10,000. Since you've said that 25k was too much, I'd approve your proposal of 15,000.

And about the IRL figures, maybe we can find it in the British Museum, but hey, screw the Museum, I'd rather play, lol! Good luck with working a bit more in your app!
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Kalmar Union
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Listen up: Can't we have a Minas Tirith/Hornbug battle of Rome later on in the RP? The HRE and Norman Sicilians lay siege on the Eternal city after discovering the Pope's true intentions of helping the ERE regain its former territory. When the "Heretical" armies after many hours of brutal fighting are closing in on St. Peter's Church where the remaining Guards and Knights gather for a last stand, together with the Pope, the Byzantine army (and perhaps some other Christian nations like England, Rus, Bohemia etc. if possible) save the day by outflanking and hitting the enemy from behind. But the fight is not over yet; in form of a NotMumakil and notHarad a new "heretical army" arrives: the Moors of North Africa. After yet a couple of hours of butchering the fight is over!.
Edited by Kalmar Union, 14 May 2016, 07:24.
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Mapleston
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Kalmar Unionen
14 May 2016, 07:23
Listen up: Can't we have a Minas Tirith/Hornbug battle of Rome later on in the RP? The HRE and Norman Sicilians lay siege on the Eternal city after discovering the Pope's true intentions of helping the ERE regain its former territory. When the "Heretical" armies after many hours of brutal fighting are closing in on St. Peter's Church where the remaining Guards and Knights gather for a last stand, together with the Pope, the Byzantine army (and perhaps some other Christian nations like England, Rus, Bohemia etc. if possible) save the day by outflanking and hitting the enemy from behind. But the fight is not over yet; in form of a NotMumakil and notHarad a new "heretical army" arrives: the Moors of North Africa. After yet a couple of hours of butchering the fight is over!.
I like the idea!
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Greater New Poland
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Holy Fuck

I don't think the Rus' is up for this 1 since
A) Distance, to reach Rome it'll take AT LEAST 2 to 3 weeks, and even that would be an understatement. Road systems then are VERY bad.
B) the distrust of the nobles (and the king) towards the Pope. If you read my last post, the Prince of Novgorod is invading Finland because of fear that the Finns will be converted to Catholicism. Catholicism is considered heretical by the Orthodox clergy, and this view is shared my the rest of the Russian people.
Edited by Greater New Poland, 14 May 2016, 07:42.
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Greater New Poland
14 May 2016, 07:41
I don't think the Rus' is up for this 1 since
A) Distance, to reach Rome it'll take AT LEAST 2 to 3 weeks, and even that would be an understatement. Road systems then are VERY bad.
B) the distrust of the nobles (and the king) towards the Pope. If you read my last post, the Prince of Novgorod is invading Finland because of fear that the Finns will be converted to Catholicism. Catholicism is considered heretical by the Orthodox clergy, and this view is shared my the rest of the Russian people.
The siege of Rome would happen on a later date AND sieges do take a while, lasting longer than a couple of weeks if food supplies are rationed and morale kept high! and as much as I can understand that the Rus generally distrusts the Vatican, wouldn't that guy you spoke of influence the Prince of Novgorod and expose the Pope's true intentions? ;)
Edited by Kalmar Union, 14 May 2016, 07:50.
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Greater New Poland
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Holy Fuck

Kalmar Unionen
14 May 2016, 07:47
Greater New Poland
14 May 2016, 07:41
I don't think the Rus' is up for this 1 since
A) Distance, to reach Rome it'll take AT LEAST 2 to 3 weeks, and even that would be an understatement. Road systems then are VERY bad.
B) the distrust of the nobles (and the king) towards the Pope. If you read my last post, the Prince of Novgorod is invading Finland because of fear that the Finns will be converted to Catholicism. Catholicism is considered heretical by the Orthodox clergy, and this view is shared my the rest of the Russian people.
The siege of Rome would happen on a later date AND sieges do take a while, lasting longer than a couple of weeks if food supplies are rationed and morale kept high! and as much as I can understand that the Rus generally distrusts the Vatican, wouldn't that guy you spoke of influence the Prince of Novgorod and expose the Pope's true intentions? ;)
That guy is under the King, and as my RP posts have shown, the Prince of Novgorod is at odds with the King. Also the Prince of Novgorod is the strongest of all princes and dukes in the Kingdom, and any king who ignores Novgorod's demands and/or concerns generally end up in dead due to civil war.
Edited by Greater New Poland, 14 May 2016, 08:02.
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Tracian Empire
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It could be possible, but in the future. As I said, the Roman army would be unable to march into the heart of Europe with the current state of the Empire.
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Mapleston
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When will anyone else besides me will post in the IC? Also, Thrace, can I post now? And when will you update ze map?
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Tracian Empire
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Mapleston
14 May 2016, 06:48
Tracian Empire
14 May 2016, 06:33
For one, you don't have why to be sorry for a long app. In fact, seeing such a well made and detailed app has just motivated me to work a little more on my Byzantine app.


The problem that could be would be the size of the army. I haven't checked on English medieval military numbers yet, so I might be wrong about it. But in this roleplay, for now at least, the largest player nations, the Rus' and the Romans (Byzantines), can each use about 20,000 men, with populations nearing 5 million. While their ability to gather only such a number of soldiers can be motivated by the problems each face( Byzantium is recovering after Manzikert, the Rus' are large and fragmented), I'd say that 20,500 men for England would be too high. Maybe 15,000? I can't seem to find historical numbers.
Thanks, Kamerad! I really did put my back into the app, which took me almost a day.

Anyways, the problem with the English Army during the days of the Normans, is that they were almost non-existent during peacetime. And in 1095, they were busy conquering Wales, and fighting Scotland, so they had an army then and it would be probably more than 10,000. Since you've said that 25k was too much, I'd approve your proposal of 15,000.

And about the IRL figures, maybe we can find it in the British Museum, but hey, screw the Museum, I'd rather play, lol! Good luck with working a bit more in your app!
Then, accepted!

But remember, based on your population, 15,000 will be a huge number for England, and for the feudal West in general. It'd be extremely difficult to raise more without general levy.
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Tracian Empire
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Mapleston
14 May 2016, 08:39
When will anyone else besides me will post in the IC? Also, Thrace, can I post now? And when will you update ze map?
You can of course post, the map will be updated later unfortunately, since I'm having some problems with my laptop.

I'll personally also post today.
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