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Topic Started: Mar 16 2012, 03:19 PM (23,663 Views)
sn00zie
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ilivas
Aug 14 2012, 12:10 PM
I don't like obama's socialist actions... he wants too much government in our lives. Forcing people to get insurance? He wants to force us to give up our guns? Force tax hikes to corporations... really the businesses that provide jobs? I will say one thing as a business owner, if I make less money you better believe my employees will make less money also. My business suffers, my employees suffer, I suffer. In turn, I decrease my spending, as do my employees, which makes other businesses suffer due to decrease spending, and the chain goes on. So in a sense, people with jobs lose, but people on medicare, welfare, and WIC win... yay
why is this so hard for people to understand? Sticking it to "the man" right? yea really smart... lets screw with the guys that write the paychecks... see how far that gets you.

People in the US need to get used to life isn't going to be what it used to be, its like they want the US to turn back into 1960's USA when 1 person could support a family of 12 on 1 income. I actually heard some libs discussing how the owner of starbucks is a real hunk of crap cause he doesn't pay the people pour coffee a LIVING WAGE? really? Someone that pours coffee?

Gas, shut up already gas isn't going to go back down to .24 cents a gallon, im sorry but you can't drive your full size truck with your foot slammed to the floor everywhere anymore. The rest of the world is growing up and not everyone here is going to be able to have a 5000 sqft house with 4 cars 2 boats and an RV.

remember that? 2007/2008 ?

So instead of dealing with it and digging in, they just wanna bitch and cry about it... no matter who you vote for, life here is changing. You don't go to college - work a job for your whole life and retire.

those days are gone, done, and they aren't coming back, you are going to be lucky if you even GET to retire, and if you do its because you did it for yourself and planned ahead.

Everyone wants to be a mini trump and they are mad its not handed to them, they think they can vote their way of life into office........ people need to start taking life into their own hands and stop getting upset that IT MIGHT BE HARD.
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smith2823
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The Amputator *meow*
The full sized truck deal is me to a T. I drive it everywhere with it to the floor and bitch about the 100$ fill ups LOL your right!
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sn00zie
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yea i wanna pay less for gas, I drive less. Or drive the mazda more... little fuel sipper. I can't do anything about the price of gas, but I can control how much I burn, so why get upset.

Like the people on the news pissing and crying about how they can't afford the gas to get to work or some nonsense, and im thinking if the price of gas is busting your balls that much, the price of gas is probably the last problem you have.

I drove 100 miles a day for years... what did I do? I got a cheap ass honda, problem solved.
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ilivas

sn00zie
Aug 14 2012, 01:44 PM
ilivas
Aug 14 2012, 12:10 PM
I don't like obama's socialist actions... he wants too much government in our lives. Forcing people to get insurance? He wants to force us to give up our guns? Force tax hikes to corporations... really the businesses that provide jobs? I will say one thing as a business owner, if I make less money you better believe my employees will make less money also. My business suffers, my employees suffer, I suffer. In turn, I decrease my spending, as do my employees, which makes other businesses suffer due to decrease spending, and the chain goes on. So in a sense, people with jobs lose, but people on medicare, welfare, and WIC win... yay
why is this so hard for people to understand? Sticking it to "the man" right? yea really smart... lets screw with the guys that write the paychecks... see how far that gets you.

People in the US need to get used to life isn't going to be what it used to be, its like they want the US to turn back into 1960's USA when 1 person could support a family of 12 on 1 income. I actually heard some libs discussing how the owner of starbucks is a real hunk of crap cause he doesn't pay the people pour coffee a LIVING WAGE? really? Someone that pours coffee?

Gas, shut up already gas isn't going to go back down to .24 cents a gallon, im sorry but you can't drive your full size truck with your foot slammed to the floor everywhere anymore. The rest of the world is growing up and not everyone here is going to be able to have a 5000 sqft house with 4 cars 2 boats and an RV.

remember that? 2007/2008 ?

So instead of dealing with it and digging in, they just wanna bitch and cry about it... no matter who you vote for, life here is changing. You don't go to college - work a job for your whole life and retire.

those days are gone, done, and they aren't coming back, you are going to be lucky if you even GET to retire, and if you do its because you did it for yourself and planned ahead.

Everyone wants to be a mini trump and they are mad its not handed to them, they think they can vote their way of life into office........ people need to start taking life into their own hands and stop getting upset that IT MIGHT BE HARD.
People that write the paychecks will take it from the employees before they take it out of their own pockets. It's screwing the middle class, but just screwing them indirectly.
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sn00zie
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well not all biz owners will directly go cutting peoples paychecks... normally its lack of a raise, reduction of staff, with longer hours and more work etc etc.

For people out of work... try something, go try to make your own $$$$, in this day and age its no riskier then trying to find a job... keep a job... not get fired/laid off etc etc etc, atleast when you make it for yourself nobody can take it from you.
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ilivas

That's what I meant by taking from employees. Layoffs, reduced raises, reduction or loss of benefits, etc.

With the way unemployment is right now, you can make good money just collecting unemployment. No need for people to look for work. .gov will even pay for unemployed to go to college, fail and drop out with no consequence. .gov is actually making my business pay for a kid to flunk out of college as we speak.
Edited by ilivas, Aug 14 2012, 05:37 PM.
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ilivas

The liberals are getting violent.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/08/13/Romney-Protester-9-11-Truther-We-Love-Dead-Republicans

No wonder they don't want people to have guns because they get violent when they run out of arguments. There were a bunch of libs protesting, at a local Romney convention, and surprise. The protesters beat up some old ladies, from what I heard.
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smith2823
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The Amputator *meow*
sn00zie
Aug 14 2012, 02:05 PM
yea i wanna pay less for gas, I drive less. Or drive the mazda more... little fuel sipper. I can't do anything about the price of gas, but I can control how much I burn, so why get upset.

Like the people on the news pissing and crying about how they can't afford the gas to get to work or some nonsense, and im thinking if the price of gas is busting your balls that much, the price of gas is probably the last problem you have.

I drove 100 miles a day for years... what did I do? I got a cheap ass honda, problem solved.
I agree! We acquired a 97 4 runner with a 5spd and 4 cyl we drive that shit everywhere the Titan sat in the garage for 3 full weeks with no start. This will be the first time in my life I have run AMS oil in a vehicle and will be going a full YEAR without changing it. Drove the titan out here from florida 3000 miles +1100 =4100 miles since I have changed it LOL Like I said we drive the 4 runner EVERYWHERE. Yeah gas prices are what they are I say the same thing get a fuel sipper!
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Tommyb

I'm not super liberal, but I am a little. I'm like a balance of the two, which is why I always get screwed at elections. No party ever gets the moderate...its always way left or way right...so moderate people like myself always get screwed. I'm not really a fan of Obama, but I don't think either party has a economic plan that's really going to help our country anyway, its just two different ways of shit not working IMO. This election actually has me voting more based on social issues than anything else. I don't like Paul Ryan because he's against gay marriage ,and wants to actively pursue getting it banned which I think is retarded. Both because im pro gay marriage, and I think it's something that shouldnt have to be an issue right now and is just a waste of money and resources. I also think hes kind of a biggot. He hates gays, and wants to appeal the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act for women. He also plans to rip away a lot of funding for universities and federal funding for schoolarships and research. I think hes pro guns tho....but thats not really an issue for me. I love guns, and I will always have them, but Im really not worried about them being banned. The NRA has too many lobbiests, and this country would start a civil war if they ever took them away. They might slap some regulations on them, and make them harder to obtain, but they'll never be flat out banned. Idk...this election isnt reallly about money for me...i feel we're screwed either way.
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ilivas

Tommyb
Aug 14 2012, 11:53 PM
I'm not super liberal, but I am a little. I'm like a balance of the two, which is why I always get screwed at elections. No party ever gets the moderate...its always way left or way right...so moderate people like myself always get screwed. I'm not really a fan of Obama, but I don't think either party has a economic plan that's really going to help our country anyway, its just two different ways of shit not working IMO. This election actually has me voting more based on social issues than anything else. I don't like Paul Ryan because he's against gay marriage ,and wants to actively pursue getting it banned which I think is retarded. Both because im pro gay marriage, and I think it's something that shouldnt have to be an issue right now and is just a waste of money and resources. I also think hes kind of a biggot. He hates gays, and wants to appeal the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act for women. He also plans to rip away a lot of funding for universities and federal funding for schoolarships and research. I think hes pro guns tho....but thats not really an issue for me. I love guns, and I will always have them, but Im really not worried about them being banned. The NRA has too many lobbiests, and this country would start a civil war if they ever took them away. They might slap some regulations on them, and make them harder to obtain, but they'll never be flat out banned. Idk...this election isnt reallly about money for me...i feel we're screwed either way.
About gay marriage, I don't really care either way since it doesn't really affect me... It's obviously against my religion, but if two dudes want to suck each other off in their own home, as long as it doesn't affect me in anyway, I don't care what they do. I'm all for less government in our lives, and I don't think the government should tell us who we should be able to marry. If I want to make love to a chicken, I should have the right to marry it, and I don't want anyone telling me I can't. This issue will not sway my vote because at this point, it is not an important issue. We have way more important things to worry about right now.

About the economic plan, Obama has already made it much worse than before, and I don't see any point in giving him another chance ny throwing more money we don't have at it.

About guns, where you come from (Chicago), you pretty much have all your gun rights already stripped away so it probably won't affect CA, IL, NY, and NJ much. You guys need a license to own, need to register guns, have a limit on what you can buy, etc. The other 40 something states could be in trouble much like the way we were under the clinton gun ban. We couldn't buy so called "assault rifles", we were limited to 10 round magazines, etc. It was a direct infringement on our 2nd amendment rights. You couldn't buy anything, and the existing ones, and ammo on the used market went up 1000% in price because of shortages.

I do see your point though... I'm a conservative, but not an extreme conservative. I do entertain some liberal views. Probably more libertarian since I prefer very little government intrusion in our lives, and a capitalist.
Edited by ilivas, Aug 15 2012, 12:46 AM.
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sn00zie
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hes right this doesn't fking matter :rof


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Edited by sn00zie, Aug 15 2012, 08:44 AM.
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Tommyb

haha gay marriage isn't a slippery slope. They just want the right to do it for the same reasons everyone else does. Whats even the point of marriage anyway? I could personally take it or leave it, but I know it's important for some.

and you of all people have no room to talk about crooked politicians...your state cheated and elected Bush haha.
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ilivas

Tommyb
Aug 15 2012, 01:19 AM
haha gay marriage isn't a slippery slope. They just want the right to do it for the same reasons everyone else does. Whats even the point of marriage anyway? I could personally take it or leave it, but I know it's important for some.

and you of all people have no room to talk about crooked politicians...your state cheated and elected Bush haha.
I believe marriage is a religious institution, so I'm not really sure why gay people want to get married in the first place, but who am I to question what they want to do. I'm fairly certain it's because of their need to validate in their own minds, and everyone else that their union is on equal terms of a traditional family, which it's really not since they can't have a real family, but as long as they don't bother me, I don't care what they do.
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cannon007

Please stop talking about gay marriage unless your a bunch of fags?

Lets talk real problems. How about our income taxes that dont do shit for us, as in none of those taxes are put back into the public, but they go to international banks??? The Federal reserve isnt even federal its PRIVATE! WTF END THE FED. How would you like everyone in the US to have another 1/3 of income??? You think our economy would get a huge jump start then? uh duh! Bring our troops home and stop this endless war on terror bullshit. Has any terrorist been caught sneaking into the US by TSA or homeland security? I'll answere that for you...NOOOO they havnt caught one god damn terrorist. Its all a big scam to grab power for the feds. Then those same bankers that are controlling everything with lobbyists want to consolidate our economy so the international bankers can buy everything up when they implode our economy by design. Which is what all this bullshit carbon tax is all about.

yea lets talk politics....

So I want either Obama or Ron Paul to win fuck Romney and here is why...

Ron Paul - EVERYTHING he stands for is what I believe in, an actual constitutional president, unlike the lieing sack of shit Obama. Only Ron Paul has a long history of voting the correct way and you can actually trust him. So why vote Obama in? Because if he gets elected in again he will start a real revolution because he will fuck everything up so fast the US will be forced to be revolt or die trying. Romney will just be the same status quo slow kill of the economy and taking bribes and leting lobbyists run the show as usual.
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Tommyb

ilivas
Aug 15 2012, 01:47 AM
Tommyb
Aug 15 2012, 01:19 AM
haha gay marriage isn't a slippery slope. They just want the right to do it for the same reasons everyone else does. Whats even the point of marriage anyway? I could personally take it or leave it, but I know it's important for some.

and you of all people have no room to talk about crooked politicians...your state cheated and elected Bush haha.
I believe marriage is a religious institution, so I'm not really sure why gay people want to get married in the first place, but who am I to question what they want to do. I'm fairly certain it's because of their need to validate in their own minds, and everyone else that their union is on equal terms of a traditional family, which it's really not since they can't have a real family, but as long as they don't bother me, I don't care what they do.
Why does anybody want to get married? It's to validate in their own minds how much they love eachother...that's it. You can be just as happy living with your girlfriend the rest of your life and having kids without getting married and you can being married. The act of getting married is just a validation, whether its for religious validation, or social validation.

Can't have a real family? One of my good friends was raised my two moms his entire life and he has one of the most loving, well adjusted families I've ever seen. They've been on family vacations, were there to support him at sporting events, were there for his graduation, and continue to support and be in his life today. Are they not a real family? Why not? because he was adopted? My cousin and his wife were not capable of having kids, so they adopted a new born. She's 5 years old now and they couldn't be happier...are they not a "real" family.

It's not just about wanting to be validated. They have the same family unit that you, and I grew up with...it's no different. Yet her partner of 30 years can't get on her company family insurance plan. She had a very bad case of pneumonia and was hospitalized for a week, yet her partner of 30 years couldn't visit her because she wasn't "family." Gay marriage isn't about flamboyant fags running around wanting to stick it to straight people and piss on the bible. It's about FAMILIES wanting the same rights, and opportunities as straight people.

I understand why you don't view it that way because of religious reasons, and I can respect that...that is your right to feel that way. but there are 100's of religions in this country, and we can't restrict certain civil rights because a few of them have a book that says gays are going to hell. It's a legal matter and religion should have nothing to do with the laws that are passed. I was raised Catholic and was taught that divorce is a sin...yet the divorce rate in this country is pretty much 50% give or take. Hell, I can name you 5 people off the top of my head that are straight and got married strictly for certain benefits.

I lived in Boystown (haha yeah...there's an area of Chicago called Boystown) for 2 years where I was a minority being straight, and I'm actually looking to move back to that area now. From what I noticed, the gays that wanted to be monogamous in committed relationships were just as well adjusted and "normal" as any straight couple I've ever met. And no...not every gay person is a flaming homo with Daisey dukes and rollerskates....tho you do see those from time to time but theyre too busy whoring around to get married lol.

fact is, gay couples ARE real families, and they deserve the right marriage just as much as straight people. Whether it's for benefit reasons, or they just want to validate it in their own minds. Their reasons for wanting to get married are the same reasons as any homophobic bible banger. (EDIT: I wasn't referring to you as a homophobic bible banger...I was just using that as a generalization because thats the stereotype I see at anti gay rallies)
Edited by Tommyb, Aug 15 2012, 09:20 AM.
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Tommyb

cannon007
Aug 15 2012, 04:05 AM
Please stop talking about gay marriage unless your a bunch of fags?

Lets talk real problems. How about our income taxes that dont do shit for us, as in none of those taxes are put back into the public, but they go to international banks??? The Federal reserve isnt even federal its PRIVATE! WTF END THE FED. How would you like everyone in the US to have another 1/3 of income??? You think our economy would get a huge jump start then? uh duh! Bring our troops home and stop this endless war on terror bullshit. Has any terrorist been caught sneaking into the US by TSA or homeland security? I'll answere that for you...NOOOO they havnt caught one god damn terrorist. Its all a big scam to grab power for the feds. Then those same bankers that are controlling everything with lobbyists want to consolidate our economy so the international bankers can buy everything up when they implode our economy by design. Which is what all this bullshit carbon tax is all about.

yea lets talk politics....

So I want either Obama or Ron Paul to win fuck Romney and here is why...

Ron Paul - EVERYTHING he stands for is what I believe in, an actual constitutional president, unlike the lieing sack of shit Obama. Only Ron Paul has a long history of voting the correct way and you can actually trust him. So why vote Obama in? Because if he gets elected in again he will start a real revolution because he will fuck everything up so fast the US will be forced to be revolt or die trying. Romney will just be the same status quo slow kill of the economy and taking bribes and leting lobbyists run the show as usual.
I'd vote Ron Paul in a heartbeat...but I won't because I know he's not going to win and I hate Romney. I was really looking forward to having a Republican candidate that I could get behind and have an honest decision of who I want as my president. But time and time again the GOP throws an absolute shitbag (IMO of course) in the ring....buuuut I guess you can say that about the democrats too haha. Either way, it's almost offensive crazy extreme the parties have become. The two party system doesnt work and needs to be changed. Idk how thats going to happen because I'm just not that politically smart to offer a solution...but something needs to change before this country rips itself apart more than it already has.


godamnit fuck you guys i said i didnt want to talk politics!...bitches
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smith2823
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The Amputator *meow*
Tommyb
Aug 15 2012, 09:26 AM
cannon007
Aug 15 2012, 04:05 AM



godamnit fuck you guys i said i didnt want to talk politics!...bitches

LMFAO - I knew it was only a matter of time to get this topic rolling!
Edited by smith2823, Aug 15 2012, 10:11 AM.
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ilivas

Tommyb
Aug 15 2012, 09:11 AM
ilivas
Aug 15 2012, 01:47 AM
Tommyb
Aug 15 2012, 01:19 AM
haha gay marriage isn't a slippery slope. They just want the right to do it for the same reasons everyone else does. Whats even the point of marriage anyway? I could personally take it or leave it, but I know it's important for some.

and you of all people have no room to talk about crooked politicians...your state cheated and elected Bush haha.
I believe marriage is a religious institution, so I'm not really sure why gay people want to get married in the first place, but who am I to question what they want to do. I'm fairly certain it's because of their need to validate in their own minds, and everyone else that their union is on equal terms of a traditional family, which it's really not since they can't have a real family, but as long as they don't bother me, I don't care what they do.
Why does anybody want to get married? It's to validate in their own minds how much they love eachother...that's it. You can be just as happy living with your girlfriend the rest of your life and having kids without getting married and you can being married. The act of getting married is just a validation, whether its for religious validation, or social validation.

Can't have a real family? One of my good friends was raised my two moms his entire life and he has one of the most loving, well adjusted families I've ever seen. They've been on family vacations, were there to support him at sporting events, were there for his graduation, and continue to support and be in his life today. Are they not a real family? Why not? because he was adopted? My cousin and his wife were not capable of having kids, so they adopted a new born. She's 5 years old now and they couldn't be happier...are they not a "real" family.

It's not just about wanting to be validated. They have the same family unit that you, and I grew up with...it's no different. Yet her partner of 30 years can't get on her company family insurance plan. She had a very bad case of pneumonia and was hospitalized for a week, yet her partner of 30 years couldn't visit her because she wasn't "family." Gay marriage isn't about flamboyant fags running around wanting to stick it to straight people and piss on the bible. It's about FAMILIES wanting the same rights, and opportunities as straight people.

I understand why you don't view it that way because of religious reasons, and I can respect that...that is your right to feel that way. but there are 100's of religions in this country, and we can't restrict certain civil rights because a few of them have a book that says gays are going to hell. It's a legal matter and religion should have nothing to do with the laws that are passed. I was raised Catholic and was taught that divorce is a sin...yet the divorce rate in this country is pretty much 50% give or take. Hell, I can name you 5 people off the top of my head that are straight and got married strictly for certain benefits.

I lived in Boystown (haha yeah...there's an area of Chicago called Boystown) for 2 years where I was a minority being straight, and I'm actually looking to move back to that area now. From what I noticed, the gays that wanted to be monogamous in committed relationships were just as well adjusted and "normal" as any straight couple I've ever met. And no...not every gay person is a flaming homo with Daisey dukes and rollerskates....tho you do see those from time to time but theyre too busy whoring around to get married lol.

fact is, gay couples ARE real families, and they deserve the right marriage just as much as straight people. Whether it's for benefit reasons, or they just want to validate it in their own minds. Their reasons for wanting to get married are the same reasons as any homophobic bible banger. (EDIT: I wasn't referring to you as a homophobic bible banger...I was just using that as a generalization because thats the stereotype I see at anti gay rallies)
I guess, I could be happy without getting marriage, but I do it for my religion, which is totally different then I'm gay and I want to be recognized by everyone as a real couple. Honestly, I could care less what other people think. Which gay people seem to get butt hurt every time someone doesn't agree with them. I totally agree, that gay people should have the same rights, and that your friend should be able to get insurance. If you're gay, and you want marriage for benefits, then sure... go for it. If you're gay and you want to get married to validate to me or other people that you're a real couple, you should find better things to worry about, and quit worrying about what other people think of you.

By real family, I meant with offspring coming from both parents. I'm sure your friend turned out fine, and adopted families are fine, but it isn't what I meant by real family.
I actually have several gay friends also in committed relationships, but they're clueless. The stuff they're pushing for is retarded. Really??? A boy cott of chick fil-a? They're trying to get married just to stick it to the man. Every time, they talk about that shit, I can't help but roll my eyes.

Like I said before though, gay marriage isn't going to sway my vote because it's the least of our problems at this point.
Edited by ilivas, Aug 15 2012, 11:16 AM.
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Tommyb

Yeah, but they were just boycotting it because the guy donates to anti gay rights groups. I have no problem with that, people boycott companies for various reasons all the time. If you're gay...you aren't going to eat at Chik-fil-a...and that's pretty much what they did. The whole CF thing didnt blow up out of control until those fat pieces of shit with nothing better to do made it a point to stand in line for 10 hours to get a sandwhich. CF was just under some public scrutiny at that point, the straight people blew it up.

They aren't trying to stick it to the man, they're trying to get what's right. I'm sure part of it is to prove they're equal, but that's all anybody wants. I'm sure there are gays that have taken extreme offense and would like to stick it to the man...sure. but the vast majority of them just want to be able to get married. Most of the one's I talk to hate that it's this big of an issue. They would much rather have a bill signed, and quietly enjoy their freedom to marry without it being on the news, in the papers, in the courtrooms, ect. The only reason they're forced to take such drastic measures is because of the anti-gay people holding shit up. They want the right to get married, and millions of "Christians" got in their way and said no because fags are evil and are going to hell. What did you expect them to do just go back home and say "Oh...yeah...i guess they're right..." They don't want to protest, they don't want to go to court and fight it, they don't want the attention, but they're forced to do so because people are getting in their way. And they are real families. They might not have the same configuration as the majority of familes the world, a gay couple with an adopted kid is 100% just as much of a family as yours or mine.


EDIT: but I can't say I blame you for the way you feel. The wrong people get all the media coverage for this issue on both sides. It's easy to have the viewpoints you do when you're kind of removed from the culture of it, like the majority of Americans are. I was just right smack in the middle of a large population of homosexuals so I feel like my viewpoints are a little different. I've always been pretty ok with gay people my whole life, but I will admit, my viewpoints on why they need to get married were more along the lines of yours before I had the experience I did. All in all, I just want to stop fucking hearing about it. I dont think it should be this big of an issue, i dont want to spend any more time fighting for and against it, i just want it to be over with so we can move on to more important issues, and it pisses me off that so many politicians constantly fight against it. It's like when that senator (or whatever he was) was trying to lobby congress to lead an investigation into steroid use in baseball. It's like yeah I'm against steroids in baseball but for fuck sake...it's not worth it.

EDIT #2: lol...I was looking for apartments just now and found out it's actually called Boystown on google maps. I always thought that was just the name people gave it because of the large gay community...I didn't realize it was actually recognized as Boystown...that's hilarious

http://goo.gl/maps/e39Sc
Edited by Tommyb, Aug 15 2012, 11:49 AM.
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ilivas

But come on.... the CFA thing was ridiculous... I get, gays are trying to vote with their dollars, by not going there. Well then there are people who support the company by also voting with their money. Do you really need to go to CFA, and protest, and call out for gays to make out in public? What is that going to accomplish? Nothing.... It's just going to start pointless fights. I feel like they're trying to force me to justify their beliefs. What good is yelling and screaming at people ordering chicken sandwiches going to do?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/adam-smith-chick-fil-a-drive-bully_n_1735357.html

You don't see me going to known KKK meetings, and protesting in their parking lot. I don't give a fuck what the KKK thinks, as long as they don't mess with me, they can believe/do/ think whatever they want, and spend their money they way they want.

Like I said, I do have several gay friends, and great people but I certainly don't agree with the methods the gay community uses. It may be that I don't understand because I'm not gay, and I'm not empathizing enough, this is why I don't get really involved in it though.
Edited by ilivas, Aug 15 2012, 12:04 PM.
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