|
Chat OT
|
|
Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 10:20 PM (722,394 Views)
|
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #35736
|
|
Unregistered
|
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:12 PM
- HolyYoong
- Sep 27 2013, 11:52 AM
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 11:41 AM
there's a racial connotation behind the n word. back in the 1700s white people decided to ship people from africa into america to become slaves and the n word was used against these people. the n word has been continually used to oppress african americans right throughout history since then.
even if you don't mean it in that way, i'm pretty sure there would be black people who would not appreciate you saying the n word even if you didn't mean it in a way as to insult them.
Ehh Really?! I see. Well I haven't talked to any black people and gladly you explain that to me. It's a really bad word after all  But I watch on some videos they use that word playfully and they even laugh about it tho.  That's really bad. I'm really sorry if I offend any black people here. I don't know how to express my apology but I hope you understand. So so sorry.
You don't have to be this sorry. You clearly meant it as a joke like in Mean Girls, people overreacted. Words can have a different meaning when put into a different context. Yes, the word ''Nigga'' isn't politically correct, but that doesn't mean that you can't use it like that. My opinion.There is one thing that bothers me though, I hear black people use the word nigger to address each other like all the time and when we say the same, it's definitely not ok. No wonder that some people threat it as a joke sometimes. why are you so offended over not being able to use a word that was used to oppress a minority? there are plenty of other words you can use.
what right do you have to say what black people should and should not do with the word that was used to oppress them? none.
@HY i'm glad you apologized it sounds like you're willing to learn unlike windmill. (however i can't accept that apology on behalf of black people because i'm not black).
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #35737
|
|
Unregistered
|
i double posted by accident
|
|
|
| |
|
Windmill
|
Sep 27 2013, 12:22 PM
Post #35738
|
|
Gertrude
- Posts:
- 1,261
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #125
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2013
|
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:12 PM
- HolyYoong
- Sep 27 2013, 11:52 AM
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 11:41 AM
there's a racial connotation behind the n word. back in the 1700s white people decided to ship people from africa into america to become slaves and the n word was used against these people. the n word has been continually used to oppress african americans right throughout history since then.
even if you don't mean it in that way, i'm pretty sure there would be black people who would not appreciate you saying the n word even if you didn't mean it in a way as to insult them.
Ehh Really?! I see. Well I haven't talked to any black people and gladly you explain that to me. It's a really bad word after all  But I watch on some videos they use that word playfully and they even laugh about it tho.  That's really bad. I'm really sorry if I offend any black people here. I don't know how to express my apology but I hope you understand. So so sorry.
You don't have to be this sorry. You clearly meant it as a joke like in Mean Girls, people overreacted. Words can have a different meaning when put into a different context. Yes, the word ''Nigga'' isn't politically correct, but that doesn't mean that you can't use it like that. My opinion.There is one thing that bothers me though, I hear black people use the word nigger to address each other like all the time and when we say the same, it's definitely not ok. No wonder that some people threat it as a joke sometimes.
why are you so offended over not being able to use a word that was used to oppress a minority? there are plenty of other words you can use. what right do you have to say what black people should and should not do with the word that was used to oppress them? none. @HY i'm glad you apologized it sounds like you're willing to learn unlike windmill. (however i can't accept that apology on behalf of black people because i'm not black).
I think it's not ok to use that word in most situations, but saying ''nigga, please'' without any malicious intent doesn't deserve the kind of reaction you are giving.
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 12:24 PM
Post #35739
|
|
Unregistered
|
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:22 PM
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:12 PM
- HolyYoong
- Sep 27 2013, 11:52 AM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
You don't have to be this sorry. You clearly meant it as a joke like in Mean Girls, people overreacted. Words can have a different meaning when put into a different context. Yes, the word ''Nigga'' isn't politically correct, but that doesn't mean that you can't use it like that. My opinion.There is one thing that bothers me though, I hear black people use the word nigger to address each other like all the time and when we say the same, it's definitely not ok. No wonder that some people threat it as a joke sometimes.
why are you so offended over not being able to use a word that was used to oppress a minority? there are plenty of other words you can use. what right do you have to say what black people should and should not do with the word that was used to oppress them? none. @HY i'm glad you apologized it sounds like you're willing to learn unlike windmill. (however i can't accept that apology on behalf of black people because i'm not black). I think it's not ok to use that word in most situations, but saying ''nigga, please'' without any malicious intent doesn't deserve the kind of reaction you are giving.
stay racist and ignorant.
|
|
|
| |
|
Ihla
|
Sep 27 2013, 01:10 PM
Post #35740
|
|
I need insoles
- Posts:
- 5,910
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #17
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
Morning.

|
|
|
| |
|
6.63E-34
|
Sep 27 2013, 01:15 PM
Post #35741
|
|
- Posts:
- 316
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #253
- Joined:
- Aug 27, 2013
|
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:12 PM
There is one thing that bothers me though, I hear black people use the word nigger to address each other like all the time and when we say the same, it's definitely not ok. No wonder that some people threat it as a joke sometimes.
long response I've read that the use of the term by the black community can be construed as an act of linguistic reclamation. The word that was previous 'used against them' (so as to speak) by oppressors is now reappropriated/reclaimed by the community as an expression of empowerment or cultural identity. iirc, that was what the LGBT community did with terms such as 'queer' and 'gay'.
The key difference between those word and the n-word, though, is that the former have been 'successfully' reclaimed such that those terms have lost their pejorative sting even when used by those outside the community. The reclamation of the n-word is, however, as yet incomplete, so controversy remains over its use. Whether or not it will ever be remains to be seen. tl;dr The phenomenon you described is understandable, and, indeed not without precedent.
That said, however, I agree with you that it is also understandable that some people use it without knowing of the ramifications/implications/cultural baggage it carries. In such cases, a move to inform the individual of the faux pas (and why it is a faux pas) would have been more constructive than the immediate criticism that happened here.
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 01:30 PM
Post #35742
|
|
Unregistered
|
- 6.63E-34
- Sep 27 2013, 01:15 PM
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 12:12 PM
There is one thing that bothers me though, I hear black people use the word nigger to address each other like all the time and when we say the same, it's definitely not ok. No wonder that some people threat it as a joke sometimes.
long response I've read that the use of the term by the black community can be construed as an act of linguistic reclamation. The word that was previous 'used against them' (so as to speak) by oppressors is now reappropriated/reclaimed by the community as an expression of empowerment or cultural identity. iirc, that was what the LGBT community did with terms such as 'queer' and 'gay'.
The key difference between those word and the n-word, though, is that the former have been 'successfully' reclaimed such that those terms have lost their pejorative sting even when used by those outside the community. The reclamation of the n-word is, however, as yet incomplete, so controversy remains over its use. Whether or not it will ever be remains to be seen. tl;dr The phenomenon you described is understandable, and, indeed not without precedent. That said, however, I agree with you that it is also understandable that some people use it without knowing of the ramifications/implications/cultural baggage it carries. In such cases, a move to inform the individual of the faux pas (and why it is a faux pas) would have been more constructive than the immediate criticism that happened here. if she cared enough about the topic like you she would have searched it up to inform herself, but she didn't. therefore i stand by my criticism.
|
|
|
| |
|
Guest
|
Sep 27 2013, 02:32 PM
Post #35743
|
|
Unregistered
|
- HolyYoong
- Sep 27 2013, 11:25 AM
/pc
Oh omg I didn't realize when I say n word you guys had a serious conversation about it last night. I'm really sorry, I didn't know that word could be that serious. I thought it's a funny word since I hear it all the time on yt, vines.. Maybe explain to me why I shouldn't use that word?
I'm so sorry. Tell me what I should do so you guys can forgive me? [marq=right] [/marq]
[marq=left] [/marq]
Don't let yourself get bullied, the phrase Nigga please is not the N-word. The N-word carries all the historical connotations nigga please is just street slang that has gone mainstream.
|
|
|
| |
|
Guest
|
Sep 27 2013, 02:42 PM
Post #35744
|
|
Unregistered
|
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
(however i can't accept that apology on behalf of black people because i'm not black). We should have known, you are just one of those insufferable non-Black people (mostly white people do this) that gets offended in situations that even black folk don't in the name of not being "racist". The type that gets their panties in a twist when black folk just calmly keep on going because they get how things said are affected by intention and the situation.
I just find it so funny when it happens because the non-black person get so red in the face at some perceived racism and the black people are like what is the big deal Johnny White you ain't erasing the years of slavery with this and then they go away.
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 02:44 PM
Post #35745
|
|
Unregistered
|
- Guest
- Sep 27 2013, 02:42 PM
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 12:20 PM
(however i can't accept that apology on behalf of black people because i'm not black).
We should have known, you are just one of those insufferable non-Black people (mostly white people do this) that gets offended in situations that even black folk don't in the name of not being "racist". The type that gets their panties in a twist when black folk just calmly keep on going because they get how things said are affected by intention and the situation. I just find it so funny when it happens because the non-black person get so red in the face at some perceived racism  and the black people are like what is the big deal Johnny White you ain't erasing the years of slavery with this and then they go away. i'm not white, fuck off.
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 02:47 PM
Post #35746
|
|
Unregistered
|
^^^
also are you black
|
|
|
| |
|
Anon
|
Sep 27 2013, 03:07 PM
Post #35747
|
|
Unregistered
|
- Anon
- Sep 27 2013, 02:47 PM
^^^
also are you black SA i was asking the anon who replied to me starting off with "We should have known,"
admittedly i reacted immaturely just then out of pure emotion and i take it back.
if you are black then i respect your criticism. if you aren't then i don't see how it's any different that you should be speaking on behalf the black community on here.
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 03:34 PM
Post #35748
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- 6.63E-34
- Sep 27 2013, 01:15 PM
long response I've read that the use of the term by the black community can be construed as an act of linguistic reclamation. The word that was previous 'used against them' (so as to speak) by oppressors is now reappropriated/reclaimed by the community as an expression of empowerment or cultural identity. iirc, that was what the LGBT community did with terms such as 'queer' and 'gay'.
The key difference between those word and the n-word, though, is that the former have been 'successfully' reclaimed such that those terms have lost their pejorative sting even when used by those outside the community. The reclamation of the n-word is, however, as yet incomplete, so controversy remains over its use. Whether or not it will ever be remains to be seen. tl;dr The phenomenon you described is understandable, and, indeed not without precedent. That said, however, I agree with you that it is also understandable that some people use it without knowing of the ramifications/implications/cultural baggage it carries. In such cases, a move to inform the individual of the faux pas (and why it is a faux pas) would have been more constructive than the immediate criticism that happened here. At what point will the phrase "nigga please" achieve the status of "reclaimed"? How many times does it have to be used by black people until it can filter into the mainstream? What's the process of reclamation? Does it vary with cultures, or does it have to be a universal, world-wide thing? What if it's generally considered as reclaimed but some black people think it isn't, do they have a democratic vote? Why does it have to be used exclusively by black people? If you want to reclaim something to take away the sting, there's nothing more effective than it filtering into day-to-day speech by everyone, a la the word "hysteric".
Let me join you in the ranks of ~indoctrinated~. ^at anon, not user quoted
|
|
|
| |
|
HolyYoong
|
Sep 27 2013, 04:20 PM
Post #35749
|
|
My shupanova
- Posts:
- 3,191
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #70
- Joined:
- Feb 1, 2013
|
"Wiiiiii~" cute!
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 04:55 PM
Post #35750
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
for orange (and other maths people i guess)
|
|
|
| |
|
Guest
|
Sep 27 2013, 05:14 PM
Post #35751
|
|
Unregistered
|
I...can't compute that...
|
|
|
| |
|
Windmill
|
Sep 27 2013, 05:22 PM
Post #35752
|
|
Gertrude
- Posts:
- 1,261
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #125
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2013
|
- HolyYoong
- Sep 27 2013, 04:20 PM
"Wiiiiii~" cute!  So freaking cute.
|
|
|
| |
|
orangedaffodils
|
Sep 27 2013, 05:37 PM
Post #35753
|
|
Let ε <0
- Posts:
- 4,094
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #102
- Joined:
- Feb 26, 2013
|
That graph looks so fake tho how did they get words on it?
About the n word thing, I find it funny that some people would correct others for the use of the slur "tr*nny" - which is used half the time in a joking context - but suddenly it's a racial slur and should be acceptable to say. And yes, Windmill, i'm talking about you lol. Idgi, honestly.
This board is really racist and xenophobic sometimes...
@anon about M: heck no techno!
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 05:48 PM
Post #35754
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 05:37 PM
That graph looks so fake tho  how did they get words on it? On some calculators you can colour one pixel at a time, so I assume that's what they did with this one.
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 05:53 PM
Post #35755
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|

So true.
|
|
|
| |
|
orangedaffodils
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:18 PM
Post #35756
|
|
Let ε <0
- Posts:
- 4,094
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #102
- Joined:
- Feb 26, 2013
|
- Artichoke
- Sep 27 2013, 05:48 PM
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 05:37 PM
That graph looks so fake tho  how did they get words on it?
On some calculators you can colour one pixel at a time, so I assume that's what they did with this one. I have a TI-84, you can't do that normally. Maybe they hooked theirs up the computer and used the software that comes with it?
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:20 PM
Post #35757
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 06:18 PM
I have a TI-84, you can't do that normally. Maybe they hooked theirs up the computer and used the software that comes with it? Maybe! I just thought it was funny and it reminded me of you, 'cause you talk about maths a lot and you said you were a dog.
|
|
|
| |
|
Guest
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:23 PM
Post #35758
|
|
Unregistered
|

|
|
|
| |
|
orangedaffodils
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:23 PM
Post #35759
|
|
Let ε <0
- Posts:
- 4,094
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #102
- Joined:
- Feb 26, 2013
|
- Artichoke
- Sep 27 2013, 06:20 PM
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 06:18 PM
I have a TI-84, you can't do that normally. Maybe they hooked theirs up the computer and used the software that comes with it?
Maybe! I just thought it was funny and it reminded me of you, 'cause you talk about maths a lot and you said you were a dog. LOL that's true 
I am doge

Speaking of math: i'll post a WW question later this afternoon, as well as the solution for the last one that promised to post days ago. Sorry, i've been really busy lately
|
|
|
| |
|
Windmill
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:32 PM
Post #35760
|
|
Gertrude
- Posts:
- 1,261
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #125
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2013
|
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 05:37 PM
That graph looks so fake tho  how did they get words on it? About the n word thing, I find it funny that some people would correct others for the use of the slur "tr*nny" - which is used half the time in a joking context - but suddenly it's a racial slur and should be acceptable to say. And yes, Windmill, i'm talking about you lol. Idgi, honestly. This board is really racist and xenophobic sometimes... @ anon about M: heck no techno!  To me tranny is different than saying ''Nigga Please'' which was obviously a Mean Girls quote. You like Mean Girls don't you? You quote that film quite often, why is this so different?
I never said that saying nigger is acceptable, in this situation however I don't find nigga please offensive and I will stay by that. Saying nigga please and nigger to me is a whole different thing, especially in the context it was used yesterday. Words can have a different meaning in the context that they are used.
Of course you're talking to me. Your overly politically correctness and my offensive humor and somewhat controversial way of thinking does clash every once in a while.
|
|
|
| |
|
Windmill
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:33 PM
Post #35761
|
|
Gertrude
- Posts:
- 1,261
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #125
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2013
|
Oh! I made my brother and mother do the Pottermore sorting hat test during supper and they got into Slytherin like me. That test doesn't seem correct, because my brother seems more like a hufflepuff or Gryffindor
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:38 PM
Post #35762
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 06:33 PM
Oh! I made my brother and mother do the Pottermore sorting hat test during supper and they got into Slytherin like me. That test doesn't seem correct, because my brother seems more like a hufflepuff or Gryffindor I think I got into Ravenclaw.
|
|
|
| |
|
6.63E-34
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:38 PM
Post #35763
|
|
- Posts:
- 316
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #253
- Joined:
- Aug 27, 2013
|
@Artichoke-- The you raised re: word reclamation certainly bear pondering. I must admit that I have not studied the topic intensively enough (nor do I have the will to, at the moment) to formulate a cogent response. However! Since I am feeling quite reckless tonight, I shall venture some barely-coherent conjectures of my own. Please proceed if you're interested:
bloody long mess 1. What is the process of reclamation?
a. Reclamation begins, I think, as a symbolic gesture of resistance by an oppressed community. It is a kind of "Hey, look here, you can't hurt us with those words no more!" posturing that is mere bravado. This is because, at this stage, the meaning of the word has not changed--it is still a tool of oppression, invented by the oppressors.
b. The next stage of reclamation, then, is to reclaim the meaning of the word/phrase. As usage of the word within the oppressed community spreads, it gradually evolves and gains new meanings. It becomes a marker of identity or a symbol of solidarity (in suffering, perhaps?) within the community itself. This subverts the original derogatory meaning of the term within the community itself. Outside the community, however, its primary meaning remains pejorative.
c. It is only in the final stage of reclamation that usage by those outside the community--especially the past oppressors--becomes acceptable. The 'new' meaning of the word/phrase becomes the predominant one, so the social stigma of its usage dissipates. This, I believe, is a matter of trust. Members of the community were able to use the word/phrase in the preceding stages because there is an implicit trust that they are not using it in the pejorative sense. This trust is not extended outside the community, and especially not to the then-oppressors, for obvious reasons. Trust must develop between the oppressed/oppressor before a member of the "oppressor" community is given the benefit of the doubt that she is not using it in a derogatory or hostile manner. This is possible when underlying rifts/tensions between the communities are resolved at a personal or at a societal level (i.e. there is little reason to automatically assume hostility under the prevailing societal conditions). This is the stage during which most controversy is generated, I believe.
2. Does the process vary with cultures? The nature and intensity of tensions/rifts between communities or the nature of trauma experienced by the oppressed community varies, so the process would probably be different in each case also. It may also depend on how emotive the word/phrase being reclaimed is.
3. If you want to reclaim[...]there's nothing more effective than it filtering into day-to-day speech by everyone, à la the word "hysteric". I'm not familiar with the case you're referring to. I think the most effective "method of reclamation" would depend on the nature of the word, the historical, cultural, social context, and a whole bunch of other factors, really. There's no one fixed formula for it, I'd wager. People are waaaay unpredictable.
4. At what point can a phrase be considered reclaimed? What if it's generally considered reclaimed but...do they have a democratic vote? This is pretty difficult to judge, really. I suppose one can base it on the mindset of the majority. I would say that if a word's usage still generates much controversy, then it isn't reclaimed. So I suppose a "democratic vote" is appropriate, given that it is a survey of the general consensus. However, this amorphous general consensus varies greatly depending on the scope of the community you're looking at.
5. How many times does the phrase have to be used by a certain community until it can filter into the mainstream? Why does it have to be used exclusively by a certain community? It is not so much a matter of how many times the phrase/word is used within the oppressed community, as it is a matter of trust. Not only trust that the word isn't meant as an insult in that particular context, but also...trust of a more general sort between communities? idk how to describe it, really.
6. Also, just to clarify my stance on the original issue at hand. I do believe that there was overreaction involved in the response to its usage in the original post, considering the context in which it was used (i.e. lack of awareness of implications, primarily facetious connotation of the phrase used as opposed to the original n-word, etc). However, the same can also be said of the backlash towards the offence taken. ^Sorry, got somewhat incomprehensible towards the end. I'm a little tipsy, oops. Anyway, thanks for bringing up the issues.
|
|
|
| |
|
HolyYoong
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:41 PM
Post #35764
|
|
My shupanova
- Posts:
- 3,191
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #70
- Joined:
- Feb 1, 2013
|
Oh LOL that dog Orange.. get that away from mehh
|
|
|
| |
|
orangedaffodils
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:42 PM
Post #35765
|
|
Let ε <0
- Posts:
- 4,094
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #102
- Joined:
- Feb 26, 2013
|
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 06:32 PM
To me tranny is different than saying ''Nigga Please'' which was obviously a Mean Girls quote. You like Mean Girls don't you? You quote that film quite often, why is this so different? I never said that saying nigger is acceptable, in this situation however I don't find nigga please offensive and I will stay by that. Saying nigga please and nigger to me is a whole different thing, especially in the context it was used yesterday. Words can have a different meaning in the context that they are used. Of course you're talking to me. Your overly politically correctness and my offensive humor and somewhat controversial way of thinking does clash every once in a while.  Yeah I like Mean Girls, but that doesn't mean I can't find fault with it - same with Pitch Perfect. I'm sure the word "tr*nny" has been used in film quite a lot, but that doesn't make it ok to use. And Mean Girls isn't even the first instance of which that phrase was used
Words may have different meaning by intent, but people here have been saying intent doesn't matter and I really don't think it does: like when you pointed out the "tr*nny" comment, it definitely wasn't one coming from a place of hate, yet still carries a lot of the pejorative connotation. It's not really any different in this situation.
Overly political correctness maybe, but i'd definitely take that over acting like a jerk towards people for the sake of humor. yeah, we don't agree on much in that respect.
Why is your mom on pottermore?
I tried it twice wanting to get into Ravenclaw, but I got Slytherin both times XD
|
|
|
| |
|
Windmill
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:51 PM
Post #35766
|
|
Gertrude
- Posts:
- 1,261
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #125
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2013
|
- orangedaffodils
- Sep 27 2013, 06:42 PM
- Windmill
- Sep 27 2013, 06:32 PM
To me tranny is different than saying ''Nigga Please'' which was obviously a Mean Girls quote. You like Mean Girls don't you? You quote that film quite often, why is this so different? I never said that saying nigger is acceptable, in this situation however I don't find nigga please offensive and I will stay by that. Saying nigga please and nigger to me is a whole different thing, especially in the context it was used yesterday. Words can have a different meaning in the context that they are used. Of course you're talking to me. Your overly politically correctness and my offensive humor and somewhat controversial way of thinking does clash every once in a while. 
Yeah I like Mean Girls, but that doesn't mean I can't find fault with it - same with Pitch Perfect. I'm sure the word "tr*nny" has been used in film quite a lot, but that doesn't make it ok to use. And Mean Girls isn't even the first instance of which that phrase was used Words may have different meaning by intent, but people here have been saying intent doesn't matter and I really don't think it does: like when you pointed out the "tr*nny" comment, it definitely wasn't one coming from a place of hate, yet still carries a lot of the pejorative connotation. It's not really any different in this situation. Overly political correctness  maybe, but i'd definitely take that over acting like a jerk towards people for the sake of humor. yeah, we don't agree on much in that respect. Why is your mom on pottermore?  I told her about it and she wanted to get sorted so I helped her out.
With that comment I meant that saying tranny is definitely worse than ''Nigga please'' because to me it's different. Saying tranny to me is never ok, it's often used in an offensive way - nigga please however gets used in films, on the street, as a joke, it's just different to me. I'm seriously not a racist, I just think when the time is right that it can be used in a funny situation like how HolyYoong did. The word Nigger however should NEVER be used and yes I know that nigga please derives from that word.
And yep, our humor is indeed very different.
Lets just agree to disagree and that is for anyone who is taking part in this debate, it's not like we are gonna change each other's opinions.
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:52 PM
Post #35767
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- 6.63E-34
- Sep 27 2013, 06:38 PM
@Artichoke-- The you raised re: word reclamation certainly bear pondering. I must admit that I have not studied the topic intensively enough (nor do I have the will to, at the moment) to formulate a cogent response. However! Since I am feeling quite reckless tonight, I shall venture some barely-coherent conjectures of my own. Please proceed if you're interested: bloody long mess 1. What is the process of reclamation?
a. Reclamation begins, I think, as a symbolic gesture of resistance by an oppressed community. It is a kind of "Hey, look here, you can't hurt us with those words no more!" posturing that is mere bravado. This is because, at this stage, the meaning of the word has not changed--it is still a tool of oppression, invented by the oppressors.
b. The next stage of reclamation, then, is to reclaim the meaning of the word/phrase. As usage of the word within the oppressed community spreads, it gradually evolves and gains new meanings. It becomes a marker of identity or a symbol of solidarity (in suffering, perhaps?) within the community itself. This subverts the original derogatory meaning of the term within the community itself. Outside the community, however, its primary meaning remains pejorative.
c. It is only in the final stage of reclamation that usage by those outside the community--especially the past oppressors--becomes acceptable. The 'new' meaning of the word/phrase becomes the predominant one, so the social stigma of its usage dissipates. This, I believe, is a matter of trust. Members of the community were able to use the word/phrase in the preceding stages because there is an implicit trust that they are not using it in the pejorative sense. This trust is not extended outside the community, and especially not to the then-oppressors, for obvious reasons. Trust must develop between the oppressed/oppressor before a member of the "oppressor" community is given the benefit of the doubt that she is not using it in a derogatory or hostile manner. This is possible when underlying rifts/tensions between the communities are resolved at a personal or at a societal level (i.e. there is little reason to automatically assume hostility under the prevailing societal conditions). This is the stage during which most controversy is generated, I believe.
2. Does the process vary with cultures? The nature and intensity of tensions/rifts between communities or the nature of trauma experienced by the oppressed community varies, so the process would probably be different in each case also. It may also depend on how emotive the word/phrase being reclaimed is.
3. If you want to reclaim[...]there's nothing more effective than it filtering into day-to-day speech by everyone, à la the word "hysteric". I'm not familiar with the case you're referring to. I think the most effective "method of reclamation" would depend on the nature of the word, the historical, cultural, social context, and a whole bunch of other factors, really. There's no one fixed formula for it, I'd wager. People are waaaay unpredictable.
4. At what point can a phrase be considered reclaimed? What if it's generally considered reclaimed but...do they have a democratic vote? This is pretty difficult to judge, really. I suppose one can base it on the mindset of the majority. I would say that if a word's usage still generates much controversy, then it isn't reclaimed. So I suppose a "democratic vote" is appropriate, given that it is a survey of the general consensus. However, this amorphous general consensus varies greatly depending on the scope of the community you're looking at.
5. How many times does the phrase have to be used by a certain community until it can filter into the mainstream? Why does it have to be used exclusively by a certain community? It is not so much a matter of how many times the phrase/word is used within the oppressed community, as it is a matter of trust. Not only trust that the word isn't meant as an insult in that particular context, but also...trust of a more general sort between communities? idk how to describe it, really.
6. Also, just to clarify my stance on the original issue at hand. I do believe that there was overreaction involved in the response to its usage in the original post, considering the context in which it was used (i.e. lack of awareness of implications, primarily facetious connotation of the phrase used as opposed to the original n-word, etc). However, the same can also be said of the backlash towards the offence taken. ^Sorry, got somewhat incomprehensible towards the end. I'm a little tipsy, oops. Anyway, thanks for bringing up the issues.  So, you agree that there are no answers for any of those questions, only more questions, therefore the process of reclamation is essentially an incoherent one with no practical use or application?
|
|
|
| |
|
6.63E-34
|
Sep 27 2013, 06:57 PM
Post #35768
|
|
- Posts:
- 316
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #253
- Joined:
- Aug 27, 2013
|
^I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Would you mind explaining?
|
|
|
| |
|
orangedaffodils
|
Sep 27 2013, 07:01 PM
Post #35769
|
|
Let ε <0
- Posts:
- 4,094
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #102
- Joined:
- Feb 26, 2013
|
Yeah, I feel like we go in circles about it fairly often. so agree to disagree at least between us - other people can and are still discussing it.
Also:

Why didn't you tell me! ARE YOU ALRIGHT???
|
|
|
| |
|
Artichoke
|
Sep 27 2013, 07:10 PM
Post #35770
|
|
nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
- Posts:
- 7,116
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #7
- Joined:
- Jan 30, 2013
|
- 6.63E-34
- Sep 27 2013, 06:57 PM
^I'm not sure understand what you're saying. Would you mind explaining? You answered my questions with, "well, it depends", and vague summations of the concepts already understood by all parties, but never defined. You offered no workable model that provided any direct answers to what I'm saying, only contextual indications, and you agree that it varies from person to person, and that there is no rule in any case by which to discern whether or not a word is actually reclaimed. So, you agree that it's an incoherent mess that can't ever be used in practice, since nobody will ever reach a consensus?
I've noticed that this is only ever used to justify the censorship of a word you find personally offensive, and that nobody can ever argue against it since it's such a useless argument. "It's not reclaimed!" "Well, when will it be reclaimed?" "When it isn't offensive anymore!" "How will it be reclaimed?" "When people say that it is!" "How many people will have to say that?" "I don't know!" "What about the people who disagree?" "Then it's not reclaimed?" "So, it can't be reclaimed until everyone agrees it isn't offensive?" "Yes!" "So, if one person out of every thousand finds it offensive, it's still not reclaimed?" "Yes!"
You can only ever know through context, which is argued to be irrelevant, as it's always unacceptable. So, if you can't tell through context, and if nobody will ever reach a universal agreement, how can words ever be reclaimed?
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|