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Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 10:20 PM (723,133 Views)
Artichoke
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What do you mean by "transphobia"?
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:13 PM
What do you mean by "transphobia"?
I mean an adverse reaction, ranging from disgust to violent repulsion, to trans* identified people. Similar to homophobia, if that gives you a better idea
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:18 PM
I mean an adverse reaction, ranging from disgust to violent repulsion, to trans* identified people. Similar to homophobia, if that gives you a better idea
Oh, I see. That seems odd - what's disgusting about trans people?
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Lingerie_Anon
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:03 PM
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May 29 2013, 07:05 PM
god damn, i have no interest in getting into this subject on a board that sprung out of the gender/sexuality wank hell that is tlc (though this place seems slightly more mellow on those topics), but people could maybe start by spelling "transsexual" correctly and learning what the term actually means
RIGHT?! It's so hard to talk about these things sometimes. i've also noticed a lot of transphobia :ermm: it's disturbing.

Transsexual isn't a sexual identity, btw - just throwing that out there. It's a term used for someone who identifies with the opposite binary sex they were assignment with at birth. The more widely used term is transgendered which encompasses a variety of identities like agender, genderqueer, etc as well as people who identify as transsexual.
:bowdown: It's like you typed out my thoughts.
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Frost
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:03 PM
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May 29 2013, 07:05 PM
god damn, i have no interest in getting into this subject on a board that sprung out of the gender/sexuality wank hell that is tlc (though this place seems slightly more mellow on those topics), but people could maybe start by spelling "transsexual" correctly and learning what the term actually means
RIGHT?! It's so hard to talk about these things sometimes. i've also noticed a lot of transphobia :ermm: it's disturbing.

Transsexual isn't a sexual identity, btw - just throwing that out there. It's a term used for someone who identifies with the opposite binary sex they were assignment with at birth. The more widely used term is transgendered which encompasses a variety of identities like agender, genderqueer, etc as well as people who identify as transsexual.
But isn't sexual identity precisely that? Feeling yourself as a man or a woman?
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Artichoke
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Frost
May 29 2013, 08:26 PM
But isn't sexual identity precisely that? Feeling yourself as a man or a woman?
I thought that's gender identity.
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:19 PM
Oh, I see. That seems odd - what's disgusting about trans people?
nothing.

but like with any marginalized group, society likes to deny them rights, use them as the butt of jokes, and sometimes permit others to commit hate crimes against them in an effort to keep the status quo; people seem to have problems understanding the plight of navigating a narrative they're not familiar with.
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Frost
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Then sexual identity is other way of saying sexual orientation?
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 04:47 PM
Frost
May 29 2013, 04:41 PM
^Transexuals.
I'm not going to get into my view on transexuality, but I'll just say that I do think that they're irrelevant. imo, the whole point of transexuals aren't to make them a separate sex - if you have a female body, you're female.

I guess you could have a subset of sexuality within a/bi/homo/heterosexuality wherein a part of that would be personal preference regarding transexuals, though. But again, that's personal preference.
seriously, the fuck is this comment?
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orangedaffodils
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Frost
May 29 2013, 08:27 PM
Then sexual identity is other way of saying sexual orientation?
I guess, i'm not really sure.

I don't like using sexual orientation because it implies that you're inherently sexual (kind of like an arrow pointing in which direction or "orientation" you lean towards, but doesn't allow you to get rid of the arrow, if that makes sense. idk)
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Artichoke
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@Orange That makes sense.

May 29 2013, 08:29 PM
seriously, the fuck is this comment?
You are, aren't you?

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me and tell me why I'm wrong.
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Frost
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:30 PM
Frost
May 29 2013, 08:27 PM
Then sexual identity is other way of saying sexual orientation?
I guess, i'm not really sure.

I don't like using sexual orientation because it implies that you're inherently sexual (kind of like an arrow pointing in which direction or "orientation" you lean towards, but doesn't allow you to get rid of the arrow, if that makes sense. idk)
You mean like there's no room for asexuality?
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orangedaffodils
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Frost
May 29 2013, 08:32 PM
You mean like there's no room for asexuality?
yes, exactly ^_^
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Pimple
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Rexie
May 29 2013, 06:08 PM
Pimple
May 29 2013, 05:39 PM
I'm terribly lazy today, so I decided to skip school. Now I'm bored with nothing to do, but I'd be pleased if anyone has any horror/suspense movie recommendations ( I don't mind blood and gore ). Just finished Whispering Corridors: Voice a few moments ago and on the hunt for more. TIA.
are you into zombies too?

these all might be very cliche

Spoiler: click to toggle


that's all I could think of for now
Thanks for the recommendations Rexie. I've yet to watch Shutter and found it thoroughly enjoyable. The rest I've already watched. As for Pet Sementary it's pretty old, and I find older films the fear factor isn't there.

Have a badass T-rex
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Rexie
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Frost
May 29 2013, 08:27 PM
Then sexual identity is other way of saying sexual orientation?
I think I read/heard a saying once

"sex is what between your legs and gender is what between your ears"

Gender is who you identified yourself with, a man or a woman
sexuality is who you attracted to, straight, gay or bi

It's over simplified I know, but I guess it helps people to get the gist of it.


I'm definitely not an expert in this, but I have watched plenty of transgender related/transgender videos on yoochoob, and I have to say that trans people are definitely some of the bravest people I've ever witness. It's hard enough to be gay and be accepted, let alone being transgender, where you completely change your outer appearance to match your inner self.
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Artichoke
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Wait, when you say "which gender you identify with", what do you mean?
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May 29 2013, 08:29 PM
Artichoke
May 29 2013, 04:47 PM
Frost
May 29 2013, 04:41 PM
^Transexuals.
I'm not going to get into my view on transexuality, but I'll just say that I do think that they're irrelevant. imo, the whole point of transexuals aren't to make them a separate sex - if you have a female body, you're female.

I guess you could have a subset of sexuality within a/bi/homo/heterosexuality wherein a part of that would be personal preference regarding transexuals, though. But again, that's personal preference.
seriously, the fuck is this comment?
DA

what do you mean 'if you have a female body, you're female?' some people are born biologically male or female and identify as something else. eg. i have a friend who was born biologically a female but identifies as a male, so therefore he is male.
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Artichoke
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May 29 2013, 08:41 PM
DA

what do you mean 'if you have a female body, you're female?' some people are born biologically male or female and identify as something else. eg. i have a friend who was born biologically a female but identifies as a male, so therefore he is male.
Well, if you have a female body, your sex is female. That's right, isn't it?

Sex is biological, and gender is the social construct?
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:30 PM
If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me and tell me why I'm wrong.
arti, as someone who likes to look up things you don't know and learn more, i'm surprised you'd make a comment like that without even thinking to look up anything about trans* people. That statement is offensive and wrong but instead of having people tell you why its wrong it's your responsibility to take the initiative and look up because people aren't always going to tell you why you're wrong - this is especially true when you're talking about a subject with someone that has to live through it; they're not obligated to have to teach you anything, and as an ally it's your job to know what not to say.

i'm not trying to be harsh. these are sensitive topics for people and deserve to be treated with respect.
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:42 PM
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May 29 2013, 08:41 PM
DA

what do you mean 'if you have a female body, you're female?' some people are born biologically male or female and identify as something else. eg. i have a friend who was born biologically a female but identifies as a male, so therefore he is male.
Well, if you have a female body, your sex is female. That's right, isn't it?

Sex is biological, and gender is the social construct?
well on his passport it says his sex is male so i can't tell you anything definitive.
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:45 PM
arti, as someone who likes to look up things you don't know and learn more, i'm surprised you'd make a comment like that without even thinking to look up anything about trans* people. That statement is offensive and wrong but instead of having people tell you why its wrong it's your responsibility to take the initiative and look up because people aren't always going to tell you why you're wrong - this is especially true when you're talking about a subject with someone that has to live through it; they're not obligated to have to teach you anything, and as an ally it's your job to know what not to say.

i'm not trying to be harsh. these are sensitive topics for people and deserve to be treated with respect.
I did Google it, and Google told me that your sex is your body, and your gender is your mind. So, if you have a body that's female, then your sex is female.

Is that not right?
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Rexie
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:39 PM
Wait, when you say "which gender you identify with", what do you mean?
it's simple really, if you were asked are you a male or a female, then you answer a female. But this is not the case with transgender person. For example if i were a transgender, I have a female body but I always identify myself as a guy, therefore if I was being asked whether I'm a male or a female, I'd answer a male. So that's why before a transperson eligible for a hormon therapy, they need to go to a specialist/shrink/psychology and be medically diagnosed with gender identity disorder (please correct me if im wrong, I'm just racking my brain for whatever info I remembered), and only then they could proceed with the therapy.

Gender identity disorder is a conflict between a person's physical gender and the gender he or she identifies as. For example, a person identified as a boy may actually feel and act like a girl. The person is very uncomfortable with the gender they were born.

I'd suggest you watch this, this is very moving and inspiring. What a courageous young girl with supportive parents

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Frost
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May 29 2013, 08:45 PM
Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:42 PM
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May 29 2013, 08:41 PM
DA

what do you mean 'if you have a female body, you're female?' some people are born biologically male or female and identify as something else. eg. i have a friend who was born biologically a female but identifies as a male, so therefore he is male.
Well, if you have a female body, your sex is female. That's right, isn't it?

Sex is biological, and gender is the social construct?
well on his passport it says his sex is male so i can't tell you anything definitive.
Has he been under surgical operations?


I'm not sure how this works. Do you have to change your sex first to be able to change your gender in the passport? Or is it not necessary?
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Artichoke
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@Rex No, I understand what you mean technically by it, but I want to know what you mean when you say "gender". Do you mean that you identify with the set of stereotypes and societal expectations that people have of someone with a fe/male body?

I've watched so many documentaries and read so many articles about trans people, but there are some questions that those things aren't answering. But then when I actually ask trans people about what they mean, nobody wants to answer me, and they tell me to Google it.
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:47 PM
orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 08:45 PM
arti, as someone who likes to look up things you don't know and learn more, i'm surprised you'd make a comment like that without even thinking to look up anything about trans* people. That statement is offensive and wrong but instead of having people tell you why its wrong it's your responsibility to take the initiative and look up because people aren't always going to tell you why you're wrong - this is especially true when you're talking about a subject with someone that has to live through it; they're not obligated to have to teach you anything, and as an ally it's your job to know what not to say.

i'm not trying to be harsh. these are sensitive topics for people and deserve to be treated with respect.
I did Google it, and Google told me that your sex is your body, and your gender is your mind. So, if you have a body that's female, then your sex is female.

Is that not right?
this is what you said:

"I do think that they're irrelevant. imo, the whole point of transexuals aren't to make them a separate sex - if you have a female body, you're female"

If you googled it, perhaps you didn't click on a credible source because I guarantee someone well-versed in the subject would not say this. Trans* people are not "irrelevant"; you're dismissing the struggle of an entire group of people, and if you have to ask why that's not ok you need to do a little bit more researching.

Sometimes trans* people are fortunate enough to undergo gender reassignment surgery that matches their gender and sex but others don't have that kind of opportunity; regardless, you never address someone in accordance to the sex that they're assigned, if they present themselves as a female - but perhaps still have the body of a male - then you address them as a woman because that's how they'd like to be addressed. If you're not sure with how they identify, use gender-neutral pronouns until you're able to privately ask them.
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Rexie
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:50 PM
@Rex No, I understand what you mean technically by it, but I want to know what you mean when you say "gender". Do you mean that you identify with the set of stereotypes and societal expectations that people have of someone with a fe/male body?

I've watched so many documentaries and read so many articles about trans people, but there are some questions that those things aren't answering. But then when I actually ask trans people about what they mean, nobody wants to answer me, and they tell me to Google it.
none to do with stereotypes or societal expectations at all, in fact, it's very personal. I'm not a trans person so I cant give you a deliberate answer when it comes to what is exactly on their mind. I'm definitely not knowledgeable enough to answer your question, but if were allowed to over simplify things, it would be "they were born in the wrong body", that's all
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 09:00 PM
this is what you said:

"I do think that they're irrelevant. imo, the whole point of transexuals aren't to make them a separate sex - if you have a female body, you're female"

If you googled it, perhaps you didn't click on a credible source because I guarantee someone well-versed in the subject would not say this. Trans* people are not "irrelevant"; you're dismissing the struggle of an entire group of people, and if you have to ask why that's not ok you need to do a little bit more researching.

Sometimes trans* people are fortunate enough to undergo gender reassignment surgery that matches their gender and sex but others don't have that kind of opportunity; regardless, you never address someone in accordance to the sex that they're assigned, if they present themselves as a female - but perhaps still have the body of a male - then you address them as a woman because that's how they'd like to be addressed. If you're not sure with how they identify, use gender-neutral pronouns until you're able to privately ask them.
No, I meant in terms of sexual attraction, not in general. I agree that trans people face a lot, and that deserves respect, as a base minimum.

So, like... I worked on the assumption that sexual attraction refers specifically to your sex, so trans people are irrelevant in that context, because your sex isn't your gender and imo shouldn't influence sexual attraction. Does that make sense?
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Artichoke
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Rexie
May 29 2013, 09:01 PM
none to do with stereotypes or societal expectations at all, in fact, it's very personal. I'm not a trans person so I cant give you a deliberate answer when it comes to what is exactly on their mind. I'm definitely not knowledgeable enough to answer your question, but if were allowed to over simplify things, it would be "they were born in the wrong body", that's all
Urghhhh. This is confusing and I await the day when I can get a solid answer to the questions I have. :unsure:
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 09:04 PM
No, I meant in terms of sexual attraction, not in general. I agree that trans people face a lot, and that deserves respect, as a base minimum.

So, like... I worked on the assumption that sexual attraction refers specifically to your sex, so trans people are irrelevant in that context, because your sex isn't your gender and imo shouldn't influence sexual attraction. Does that make sense?
ok, I think I understand what you mean but it's still not worded in a nice way :ermm:

You meant that gender identity is irrelevant to (a)sexual attraction? yes, I think that'd be true - a good example would be the lead singer of Against Me!
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 09:08 PM
ok, I think I understand what you mean but it's still not worded in a nice way :ermm:

You meant that gender identity is irrelevant to (a)sexual attraction? yes, I think that'd be true - a good example would be the lead singer of Against Me!
In what way should I have worded it?
I seem to be bad at expressing myself when it comes to socially sensitive issues. I apologise if I gave the wrong impression and upset anyone - that really wasn't my intention.

And yeah, that's what I meant. Since sexual attraction is about biology, and your biology is what your physical sex is, whether or not you identify shouldn't be a factor in the equation.
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orangedaffodils
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You should have worded it w/o the implication of people being irrelevant.
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
May 29 2013, 09:14 PM
You should have worded it w/o the implication of "people" being irrelevant.
Alright. I seem to forget that certain word choices might make a big difference to some people, because it's a subject they're obviously incredibly sensitive about and the wrong thing might cause undue offense.
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 08:50 PM
@Rex No, I understand what you mean technically by it, but I want to know what you mean when you say "gender". Do you mean that you identify with the set of stereotypes and societal expectations that people have of someone with a fe/male body?

I've watched so many documentaries and read so many articles about trans people, but there are some questions that those things aren't answering. But then when I actually ask trans people about what they mean, nobody wants to answer me, and they tell me to Google it.
idt a lesbian board can answer what you want to know bc we're not trans* identified people and can't speak on behalf of them. however i can somewhat imagine being offended if i identified as being transgendered and you came up to me and said my sex was female when i identified as a male, ik would not be down with that. idk if it will ever be appropriate for you to try and argue your point without causing hurt or offence to someone who has struggled with gender identity issues all their life.

you might never get a proper answer and may have to live with that. idt it's too much of a struggle not knowing.
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Lingerie_Anon
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Trans* folk are the arguably the most marginalized of the LGBT groups. Many of them are treated as "irrelevant" their whole lives, so they have every right to be sensitive.

And let us not forget there are trans* people who identify as lesbians.
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Rexie
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Artichoke
May 29 2013, 09:04 PM
because your sex isn't your gender and imo shouldn't influence sexual attraction. Does that make sense?
this is true, some of the transpeople actually attracted to their own gender (a transman attracted to male or a transwoman attracted to female).
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