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Sad things happened to this board and this community has moved to the new place. If you lost touch with us, please find us at www.sogayshidae.com. First 10 pages of the new Forum Discussions thread should fill you in with the details of this drama. This forum was restored and frozen for archive purposes. |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 10:20 PM (722,751 Views) | |
| Guest | Jul 14 2013, 06:10 PM Post #23241 |
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Oh look, its a baby Soshi photoshoot, YoonSic edition. Adorable.
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| orangedaffodils | Jul 14 2013, 06:11 PM Post #23242 |
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Let ε <0
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The media sensationalizes anything and everything, I don't understand why this particular instance is being singled out though. It's not that it was a "racist movement" per se it's that Z used racial profiling techniques to target TM unjustly; he disobeyed dispatch and approached TM and like...I would get so scared if someone was following me around for no good reason, especially if they have a bad track record on treating me like shit (the relationship between black people and cops is historically violent and ripe with brutality; a couple of my friends told me a few stories about when they lived in NY - that shit is scary). People who think race isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken into consideration about this case are probably people who don't have to deal with that kind of stuff in their day to day lives tbh. I appreciate your input though. I just don't agree. |
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:13 PM Post #23243 |
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drek ogrelord
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I am also going to order a PS4 if I have a TV in China, I have no idea where I'm living still. Going to miss my PS3 ![]() The hostel people here goofed up my booking and made me change room. It's really gaudy in here there is a giant wave painted on the walls |
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| orangedaffodils | Jul 14 2013, 06:22 PM Post #23244 |
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Let ε <0
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LOL wat ![]() like an ocean wave?? |
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:24 PM Post #23245 |
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drek ogrelord
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Yeah it's called the 'four elements room' it seems my bed is below water I can't ![]() I'll upload a pic when my friend gives me my phone charger back It's ridiculous |
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| Rexie | Jul 14 2013, 06:25 PM Post #23246 |
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"four elements room" the hell???
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| Guest | Jul 14 2013, 06:29 PM Post #23247 |
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Like I said before... The jury deliberated longer than most and they seemed to go thru the entire checklist they need to do to arrive to a decision and even requested clarifications, they did their due diligence. And taking the evidence presented, not some media fed version, arrived to their decision which is legally sound. People can try to argue manslaughter was a better option, the right option but voluntary was out of the question since the state definitely didn't prove intention. Involuntary was also not that applicable because 'disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior' could have been interpreted into GZ's actions but if you thought the actions taken before the shooting were warranted by the sequence of events then the only option is to acquit. The acquittal does not mean the jury is saying that from the evidence GZ had to shoot TM or that TM deserved to be shot but that from the evidence presented it was justified as in represents one of the possible outcomes of the encounter between them as it happened and it did not come about because of intent (malice) or 'wanton or reckless behavior'. If a person hits another with a car and there is 0 chance the "victim" was the culpable party, there is a good chance intent (malice) or 'disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior' was present on the driver's actions. So that's not really a good example to say that if people hitting others with cars can get manslaughter then why didn't GZ who shot a person get manslaughter since shooting is "worse" than hitting someone with the car? That is simply not the way cases are looked at legally. The media is to blame of starting the white vs black divide when there was no white vs black, they are culpable of always harping on race, they are culpable of stoking matters. Yes, they sure are. Many people might have felt the same but in no way does that detract from the media playing into the side who saw this as a racial case. A vigilante by sheer definition is any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime without recourse to lawful procedures. This does not fit GZ, he was a member of NW and he was suspicious of an individual's actions. People can argue about GZ "disobeying" orders to stand down but the fact is GZ and not the dispatcher was on the ground so if GZ thought there was enough cause he would've proceeded as frankly any law enforcement officer would have if they thought it best. |
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| Random Snippets | Jul 14 2013, 06:34 PM Post #23248 |
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Aficionado of Yuri's Wiggly Eyebrows
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With all due respect, how do you know that racial considerations didn't play a part in the jury's decision? There isn't any way of proving or disproving that. The criminal justice system is adversarial and extremely black and white. It's unfortunate but that is the way it has developed over the years, such that fairness to the defendant is carefully weighed against criminal prosecution. I understand your concerns about racial profiling and its apparent role in the death of TM, but unless the prosecution had effectively used such evidence to prove that GZ had intention to kill TM (and thereby satisfying murder), then the concern carries no weight. Perhaps the bureaucracy and rigid construction of the legal system is to be blamed for such socio-political issues being swept aside but those same factors give legitimacy to the rule of law. So I think it would be unfair to say that there has been a 'miscarriage of justice' with the verdict delivered. Edit: Remembering that the verdict was delivered by a jury which is comprised of ordinary members of society and not a bunch of people harking from the '60s. |
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| Guest | Jul 14 2013, 06:39 PM Post #23249 |
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I think my post confused you a bit, I was talking about voluntary and involuntary manslaughter... But it's involuntary that needs "disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior" and voluntary manslaughter that needs intent (malice). So "disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior" is not needed for intent as you understood it. I find it interesting you think the same elements of manslaughter (voluntary or involuntary) would satisfy the reckless murder in Australia. Since manslaughter is the legal answer for people who take another's life but by law does not satisfy the charge of murder, this would indicate Australia's code might be harsher in the criminal arena than (in this case) Florida criminal law.
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 06:39 PM Post #23250 |
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The burgundy in my hair is going away. Now it's orange-ish At least orange is my favorite color |
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:43 PM Post #23251 |
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drek ogrelord
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Here is my new bed, at least it's not squeaky ![]() Classy decor. Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Rexie | Jul 14 2013, 06:44 PM Post #23252 |
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Your friendly neighborhood T-Rex
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@BC I just remembered, it wasnt actually a wallet, it was a small orange-y coin purse!! cant remember the brand but it's one of those high fashion ones. What made me side eye the whole thing was she's a very brand-minded person, so she mostly bought it for the brand and not the usability. Tho they called that the Chan3l sneakers, they do look more like runners to me. @Pod that's a cool hostel you staying in...and a nice bed too |
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 06:44 PM Post #23253 |
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That'd be creepy to look at in the middle of the night
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| Guest | Jul 14 2013, 06:46 PM Post #23254 |
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Pod watcha doing in beijing? a year abroad for your language course with a chinese uni or working on your own/placement with the british council etc? |
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| babycakes | Jul 14 2013, 06:48 PM Post #23255 |
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well ok that's pretty pricey for a coin purse lol whatever makes her happy i guess. i just appreciate pretty things and some of them happen to be overpriced ia they are runners |
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:49 PM Post #23256 |
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drek ogrelord
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First one, it's my year abroad |
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| babycakes | Jul 14 2013, 06:50 PM Post #23257 |
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btw i'm off to bed but what perfume(s) do you guys use? i'm curious to know what you smell like i'm looking for a new one atm but i usually use burberry brit sheer |
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| Random Snippets | Jul 14 2013, 06:52 PM Post #23258 |
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Aficionado of Yuri's Wiggly Eyebrows
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I clearly was confused since I thought you had been talking solely about involuntary manslaughter. When I mentioned 'intention' or 'intent' I was referring to the fault elements or mens rea of the murder/manslaughter charge, not specifically 'intent' (malice, as it seems) in itself. As a side note, malice as a term hardly makes an appearance in Australian law so I might have been confused on that part. In Australia, voluntary manslaughter is the legal answer to the situation wherein the defendant had taken the victim's life with the requisite intention to cause either grievous bodily harm or death (or even recklessness as to causing death/grievous bodily harm) but the defendant had the partial defence of provocation or excessive self defence, reducing the murder charge. In any case, Australia has no federal criminal code and only some states have a criminal law code. In most states, the common law has often made the waters of manslaughter murky. So case in point: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I might've been way out of my depth voicing an opinion on the difference between Florida criminal law and Australian criminal law. |
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| orangedaffodils | Jul 14 2013, 06:54 PM Post #23259 |
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That's exactly the point I was trying to make; we have a flawed system and, like I said, I don't think it failed because I don't think our system is designed to protect anyone who isn't white. (I also don't think it serves to protect women either, but that's a different topic). I don't understand your last sentence: like I said, we don't live in a post-racial society, and there's going to be inherent bias in the way people think - especially about black people in our society. The jury was a panel of all white women, I don't know how you can not expect that to be a factor in the ruling. You say that unless the prosecution effectively used such racial profiling evidence to prove that Z had intention to kill TM then the concern carries no weight but how do you go about proving a whitewashed mindset? How do you go about proving that people's biased thoughts fueled their actions? You can't, and that's one of the ways our system is flawed. And it will always be a concern - just because it's of no concern to you doesn't make it null and void. Like I told anon, you can jump through as many legal hoops as you want, but at the end of the day there's a child dead and his murderer got let go. This is about the only country where abortion is murder yet the murder of a black person isn't. Go figure. |
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| HolyYoong | Jul 14 2013, 06:55 PM Post #23260 |
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My shupanova
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I like orange too tbh
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:55 PM Post #23261 |
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drek ogrelord
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Well I have no idea what that smells like but it sounds good I use J'adore by Dior dat advert Sleep well~ |
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| Guest | Jul 14 2013, 06:55 PM Post #23262 |
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are you enrolling in chinese uni?... they're all kinda far from the centre/sanlitun/fun areas with their campuses /currently doing an internship in beijing |
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 06:56 PM Post #23263 |
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Most of the time I use axe excite but occasionally I use bath and bodyworks love love love. ![]() Spoiler: click to toggle
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| babycakes | Jul 14 2013, 06:57 PM Post #23264 |
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lol i just got that and ia charliz3 edit: Candy, Axe looks like the American equivalent of what we have in Australia called Lynx, which I hate because teenaged boys are always drenched in that stuff but I'm sure you smell nice. |
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| Random Snippets | Jul 14 2013, 06:58 PM Post #23265 |
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Aficionado of Yuri's Wiggly Eyebrows
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Acqua di Parma's Magnolia Nobile. Try looking at DJ's! I find that it has a wider ranger than My3r's. Gl finding a new perfume. ![]() G'night! |
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 06:59 PM Post #23266 |
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kpop logic
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 06:59 PM Post #23267 |
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drek ogrelord
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Oh anon pls help me I know nothing about Beijing I'm going to be at BNU |
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| HolyYoong | Jul 14 2013, 07:02 PM Post #23268 |
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My shupanova
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Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 07:05 PM Post #23269 |
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It's all the signs! We're meant to be! Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Rexie | Jul 14 2013, 07:10 PM Post #23270 |
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Your friendly neighborhood T-Rex
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but in that case, it wasnt pretty haha, and the material was quite frail too. It's like one those low quality synthetic leather for perfume, I switch between Aigner Blue Emotion or Bvlgari Aqua (yes both are men's perfume so pls dont judge) haha. I always prefer men's perfume, women's are way too strong for me and ended up giving me headaches
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| Candy Star | Jul 14 2013, 07:13 PM Post #23271 |
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@Rexie gurrrl I use men's perfume too. They sell women's axe but I think the men's smell better.
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| HolyYoong | Jul 14 2013, 07:15 PM Post #23272 |
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My shupanova
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![]() we both crazy for each other |
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| nane | Jul 14 2013, 07:16 PM Post #23273 |
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GG's biotch.
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I ship it...
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| Pod | Jul 14 2013, 07:18 PM Post #23274 |
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drek ogrelord
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Oh lawd I've just been invited out for dinner I'm so caffeine spaced I didn't even realise it had passed midday |
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| Rexie | Jul 14 2013, 07:19 PM Post #23275 |
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Your friendly neighborhood T-Rex
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unpopular opinion but I kinda like Axe chocolate, it smells quite nice |
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obviously there are differences in legal statues across countries but you can run across difference in counties even. What is the big difference you spotted with this case?












9:07 PM Jul 11