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Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 10:20 PM (722,623 Views)
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kinda feel bad for sushified rn. It's already the 28th and they only managed to gain 22% of their donations target. wth is going on? Is this like normal or the forum members are dwindling or they just don't donate? Or was it the number of sones that are dwindling? Huh, scary thought. I hate to see fans leaving the fandom.
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Yuwree
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Jul 28 2013, 10:37 AM
kinda feel bad for sushified rn. It's already the 28th and they only managed to gain 22% of their donations target. wth is going on? Is this like normal or the forum members are dwindling or they just don't donate? Or was it the number of sones that are dwindling? Huh, scary thought. I hate to see fans leaving the fandom.
mm, the majority of the fandom is like aged in their early teens, I suppose since the girls aren't really as active they're getting less traffic =\
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orangedaffodils
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it's 4am I just got back from a party. weird

there was mostly beer there btu I dont' like beer but they had hard cider so that was good. it was fun
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Artichoke
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Couldn't sleep because I was going over and over that dwarf problem in my head and why my version was apparently wrong. Still don't know a reason. -_-
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 10:59 AM
Couldn't sleep because I was going over and over that dwarf problem in my head and why my version was apparently wrong. Still don't know a reason. -_-
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orangedaffodils
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some dude asked me tot dance so I said ok. it was almost like swing dancing but he yto otoucy feely so the dance was cut short.

he was weird he wore goggles
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Artichoke
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Jul 28 2013, 11:03 AM
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Thanks, Wig! :clap:

I'm 18 now, how weird is that?
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:10 AM
some dude asked me tot dance so I said ok. it was almost like swing dancing but he yto otoucy feely so the dance was cut short.

he was weird he wore goggles
Goggles are badass. Tai and Davis from Digimon wore goggles.
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:11 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:10 AM
some dude asked me tot dance so I said ok. it was almost like swing dancing but he yto otoucy feely so the dance was cut short.

he was weird he wore goggles
Goggles are badass. Tai and Davis from Digimon wore goggles.
yeah but this isn't wan anime this is real life and you dont' just go around wearing goggles 24/7. we live in texas, not the sahara desert
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:12 AM
yeah but this isn't wan anime this is real life and you dont' just go around wearing goggles 24/7. we live in texas, not the sahara desert
Why not? I once went an entire holiday to Wales wearing goggles because I was really enjoying the feeling of wearing them.
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Yuwree
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:11 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:10 AM
some dude asked me tot dance so I said ok. it was almost like swing dancing but he yto otoucy feely so the dance was cut short.

he was weird he wore goggles
Goggles are badass. Tai and Davis from Digimon wore goggles.
Posted Image



Unless they're swimming goggles

Orange is drunk!
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Artichoke
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Yuwree
Jul 28 2013, 11:14 AM
See? Tai is cool and he wears goggles, therefore goggles are cool.

...I wanted to be Tai when I was younger.
I still want to be Tai now.
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:10 AM
Anon
Jul 28 2013, 11:03 AM
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Thanks, Wig! :clap:

I'm 18 now, how weird is that?
its not weird at all. i've always thought you were waaaay ahead of your years :gaypimp:
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:14 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:12 AM
yeah but this isn't wan anime this is real life and you dont' just go around wearing goggles 24/7. we live in texas, not the sahara desert
Why not? I once went an entire holiday to Wales wearing goggles because I was really enjoying the feeling of wearing them.
sounds liek a cool story.

since this guy was a little off, it was ani ndication of potential creepiness and esp after that dance, it was pretty much solidified
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:14 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:12 AM
yeah but this isn't wan anime this is real life and you dont' just go around wearing goggles 24/7. we live in texas, not the sahara desert
Why not? I once went an entire holiday to Wales wearing goggles because I was really enjoying the feeling of wearing them.
you did what arti ? how old were you ?
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:16 AM
sounds liek a cool story.

since this guy was a little off, it was ani ndication of potential creepiness and esp after that dance, it was pretty much solidified
Yeah. I had fun.

The touchy-feely thing is weird, though, definitely. Should've stepped on his toes with your heels, presuming you weren't wearing pumps.

Jul 28 2013, 11:16 AM
its not weird at all. i've always thought you were waaaay ahead of your years :gaypimp:
Yeah, but like. I've been alive for 18 years, man, that shit is wack.
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Artichoke
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Jul 28 2013, 11:17 AM
you did what arti ? how old were you ?
14/15.
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orangedaffodils
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nah no heels I wore flats it was a casual partay

overall I had a good time. idkf if im' gonna wake up in time for brunch tomorow
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:19 AM
nah no heels I wore flats it was a casual partay

overall I had a good time. idkf if im' gonna wake up in time for brunch tomorow
I'm glad to hear that.
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:19 AM
nah no heels I wore flats it was a casual partay

overall I had a good time. idkf if im' gonna wake up in time for brunch tomorow
orange is sloshed :gaypimp:

gurrrl go sleep it off :lol:
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 11:18 AM
Yeah, but like. I've been alive for 18 years, man, that shit is wack.
well, i've been alive for granny+ years more than you, so i'm wackier :gaypimp:

welcome to adulthood, eurythmia
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orangedaffodils
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Jul 28 2013, 11:21 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:19 AM
nah no heels I wore flats it was a casual partay

overall I had a good time. idkf if im' gonna wake up in time for brunch tomorow
orange is sloshed :gaypimp:

gurrrl go sleep it off :lol:
it's weird I dno't normoally go to parties b/c I don't liek being around a lot of strangers but there was only 15 people max and several of my friends were there and my roomie so it was ok

yeah i'm' jsut gonna sleep here on teh couch. it'll probs ensure my wake up tomorrow morning

goodnight madams
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orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:26 AM
Anon
Jul 28 2013, 11:21 AM
orangedaffodils
Jul 28 2013, 11:19 AM
nah no heels I wore flats it was a casual partay

overall I had a good time. idkf if im' gonna wake up in time for brunch tomorow
orange is sloshed :gaypimp:

gurrrl go sleep it off :lol:
it's weird I dno't normoally go to parties b/c I don't liek being around a lot of strangers but there was only 15 people max and several of my friends were there and my roomie so it was ok

yeah i'm' jsut gonna sleep here on teh couch. it'll probs ensure my wake up tomorrow morning

goodnight madams
sweet dreams and may you wake up for the brunch. :gaypimp:
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Yuwree
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I hope Alyssa and Lysandra win the block =\
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babycakes
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Jul 28 2013, 04:30 AM
Babycakes was pretty close in that she said that the friendships become stable/static (or something of that sort) but that implies that some sequence converges to a certain number that is >0 which it does not.
:blink: i actually have no clue what this means but it's good to know i was not completely off track although i doubt i would've ever been able express my answer in a way that could be considered satisfactory "proof".

congratz xyz and arti

blahblahblah


edit: hahaahaha drunk orange :rofl:
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Artichoke
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Jul 28 2013, 11:25 AM
well, i've been alive for granny+ years more than you, so i'm wackier :gaypimp:

welcome to adulthood, eurythmia
Maybe I should buy a monocle to commit to my new-found adult feelings...

babycakes
Jul 28 2013, 12:02 PM
:blink: i actually have no clue what this means but it's good to know i was not completely off track although i doubt i would've ever been able express my answer in a way that could be considered satisfactory "proof".
I think as long as you show that there will be an outcome which results in no dwarf repainting through an example, that's satisfactory proof. And since my original post was apparently not obvious enough and I am nothing if not dedicated!!! (or needlessly tryhard, you decide), I have opted to elaborate on my post just to show how I am right.

The Question


What to take from this - The only condition that needs to be fulfilled is that the dwarves stop painting their houses. That is the only thing I need to prove will happen within the parameters that Orange has set, which I outline in my original post below.

My Original Post


Since it's more than blatantly obvious that 1 and 7, dependent on 6, which I'll show, are correct, I won't insult your intelligence by talking about those. It doesn't really matter that I'm already correct just by virtue of including 1, since apparently the only answer Orange will accept as "correct" is 6, so that's what I'm concerned with.
From this, I'll presume that more than one dwarf repaints, since that seems to be the requirement as of now. So, more than one dwarf must abide by this practice of painting their houses by the majority colour within their friendship group.

Orange's problem with 6 is that "(I) never mentioned anything, in any of (my) answers, about the amount of friends becoming smaller and smaller", and I argue that I didn't do that because it's completely irrelevant to the result of houses not being painted. That's already been proven in the fact that 1~5 are true.

To begin with, it's clear that it doesn't matter about the number of dwarves, nor how many friends that dwarf has, nor how many there actually are that repaint, just that there's a finite number of total dwarves. Whether even or odd, what matters is the ratio of blue to red houses within friendship groups, since there can be 1 blue house and 2 red and it would still give the same result as 1,000 and 2,000. It just requires one to number more than the other, since as long as there's a clear majority, the dwarves that're repainting will repaint to fit that majority.

BUT! What if there isn't a number more than the other, and it's a 50/50 split? That doesn't affect the outcome, because of the perspectives of the individual dwarves. A 50/50 split from the perspective of one dwarf won't affect anything, because a 50/50 split from the perspective of one dwarf will be a 60/40 from the perspective of another.

To show this, let us presume that there is an odd number of houses. For this case, we'll assume 11 houses within this friendship group. 6 are red and 5 are blue.
Taeyeon has a red house and sees 5 other red houses (not including hers, because she doesn't count her own) and 5 blue houses, so decides not to repaint, since from her perspective, there are only 5 red houses and 5 blue ones. However, Jessica has a blue house, so she sees 4 other blue houses (since she doesn't include her own as well) and 6 red houses, this time including Taeyeon's. Thus, Jessica will paint her house red to align with the majority in her eyes, which is red.
Following from this, Sunny walks outside from her blue house and sees that more people in her friendship group have painted their house red, thus she will paint her house red as well, which makes 7 red houses (including Taeyeon's and now Jessica's, and 3 blue houses, not including her own). So, she'll paint her house red. etc.

So, presume an even number to begin with, which we shall postulate as 12 houses, with 6 of each colour. From any perspective, there'll be a clear majority here, as whichever group you're part of, there'll be 1 more in the other group, since you don't count your own house to judge whether or not you should repaint. Thus, the same situation as an odd number would occur. I trust I don't need to explain why 8 red houses and 2 blue houses will result in everyone painting their house red after I've just explained ^ that, so I won't repeat myself.

But, what if there are only 2 dwarves that repaint, and they're both part of the majority group? They won't ever repaint, since they have no need to change, as they are already a part of the majority group, so there won't be any more repainting that will occur, as partly explained by 1. Thus, the default state is of nobody repainting anyway. But what if some new friends come along, and turn the majority group into a minority group? Then the dwarves will repaint and become a part of the majority again.

Finally, on the relevancy of the friendship groups - if there are a finite number of dwarves, that means there are a finite number of dwarves that can potentially be friends. The friendship groups themselves are irrelevant. There will always be a majority or minority from the perspective of the 2+ repainting dwarves within that friendship group resulting in the above, and the addition or removal of other dwarves doesn't effect the status quo, and will do nothing but simply increase the sample size irrelevantly.

For example, if the situation regarding the odd number of houses occurs, and then Tiffany joins the friendship group with a blue house to make 12 total houses, with 6 red and 6 blue. This makes the group numbers even, which will make the results mirror those in the situation directly above, with all houses becoming the same colour as the majority.

From this, we can conclude that it doesn't matter about the size of the friendship group, nor the amount of friends that are in it. The total numbers are inconsequential, as it is the colour ratio of the houses that is the crucial factor here (which I used in my example) and NOT "the number of friends becoming smaller and smaller", which Orange claims. Something I thought was self-evident, but I guess since I have to clarify, Orange needed me to state the incredibly obvious. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Detailed enough to convince you that 6 is right, and that your criticism of it is logically invalid? :sissies:
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babycakes
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holy shite idek if i can be bothered to read all of that but :goldstar: for effort jesus mary joseph

and it's alright, i'm good. idt my answer was wholly incorrect (because if taeyeon befreinds all the other dwarves than the condition would've been satisfied) only that it wasn't the most correct answer as xyz's was.
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Artichoke
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Xyz and I both posted the same thing at different times, but apparently hers was more correct because of no logical reason.
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Jul 28 2013, 10:37 AM
kinda feel bad for sushified rn. It's already the 28th and they only managed to gain 22% of their donations target. wth is going on? Is this like normal or the forum members are dwindling or they just don't donate? Or was it the number of sones that are dwindling? Huh, scary thought. I hate to see fans leaving the fandom.
da don't think its the number of fans going down just a lot of people don't even go to ssf anymore and the ones who do are really young so they wouldn't be donating

as soon as twatter got more active I pretty much stopped going on s00mpi and ssf when I used to be on them like all the time before, I think its like that with a lot of other fans. other than their subs they don't bring anything exclusive, by the time they post news its been everywhere for hours already
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babycakes
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Artichoke
Jul 28 2013, 01:17 PM
Xyz and I both posted the same thing at different times, but apparently hers was more correct because of no logical reason.
i just got through your op - yes i'm an agonisingly slow reader - and can sorta understand orange's issue with it. 6 was worded strangely so as to render your meaning a tad confusing to ppl who aren't privy to the inside of your mind. i also don't think that 1-5 were correct but feel that if i state this, you will not be satisfied until i explain why i think so and idk if i have the time to do this since i go back to uni tmr and there are more pressing things..
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Jul 28 2013, 01:30 PM
i just got through your op - yes i'm an agonisingly slow reader - and can sorta understand orange's issue with it. 6 was worded strangely so as to render your meaning a tad confusing to ppl who aren't privy to the inside of your mind. i also don't think that 1-5 were correct but feel that if i state this, you will not be satisfied until i explain why i think so and idk if i have the time to do this since i go back to uni tmr and there are more pressing things..
Hardly confusing. Everyone I've consulted about it has understood it perfectly and come to the same conclusion when presented with the problem, so idk what seems to be confusing the people on this board.

Sorry, you're right, my mistake. I mean to say, "potentially correct", given the probability of the first part of the brackets occurring.
*Which, given the parameters that Orange has set, I can easily set as my starting point, so I can set up my situation to require them to be correct.
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@arti tldr;

But I did read your answer and found it funny that you submitted several answers. As you can see in the solution that both xyz and orange provided, most of the unknown parameters were actually implied in the question. So if this was a real test, your answer would definitely not be correct.
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babycakes
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Jul 28 2013, 01:36 PM
Hardly confusing. Everyone I've consulted about it has understood it perfectly and come to the same conclusion when presented with the problem, so idk what seems to be confusing the people on this board.

Sorry, you're right, my mistake. I mean to say, "potentially correct", given the probability of the first part of the brackets occurring.
*Which, given the parameters that Orange has set, I can easily set as my starting point, so I can set up my situation to require them to be correct.
/shrugs perhaps the ppl you consulted have similar thought patterns to yourself and therefore understood your answer perfectly? i was just suggesting the reason why your answer was deemed less correct because i personally don't think you expressed it as clearly as xyz because i recognised her's as the correct answer almost instantaneously. (but girl you consulted other ppl about this omg that's dedication)

also, ia with orange that your prefacing your more correct answer (6) with 1-5 was a little (to me, it makes it seem as though you both didn't read the question carefully enough and read it too carefully at the same time, which isn't logical but watevs).. read anon above. orange kept mentioning that the premises were implicit in the qn and now i know why. it wasn't really for my benefit lol
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Artichoke
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Jul 28 2013, 01:42 PM
@arti tldr;

But I did read your answer and found it funny that you submitted several answers. As you can see in the solution that both xyz and orange provided, most of the unknown parameters were actually implied in the question. So if this was a real test, your answer would definitely not be correct.
If this were a test, I'd answer with the one that would provide the most to talk about, which would be 6, and thus I'd be correct anyway. Besides, it isn't a test, it's an open question, so your point is invalid.

Not only that, but the unknown parameters being implied is a matter of subjective opinion. I could easily interpret Orange's words as implying that there is only one dwarf that repaints her house, as inferred by the fact that she used "a", which implies singular and not plural, and giving a name to this very specific dwarf, referenced as Taeyeon, thus my answer 2 would be correct through that interpretation, as once Taeyeon has painted her house once, there is no need to paint it further.

I could easily argue that Orange's problem is like the Einstein Quiz and was intended to be a trick question, and my interpretation would be equally valid, given that apparently subjective opinion is enough to warrant being proof.

The only facts within the question are the ones I provided in my OP;
- there are a finite number of dwarves
- not all dwarves are friends
- not all dwarves know each other
- only the friends' houses are relevant
- taeyeon will paint her house to match her friends'
- if her house is red, but more of her friends have blue, she'll change to blue
- if her house is blue, but more of her friends have red, she'll change to red

Xyz's facts, as a comparison;
(1) - There is finite number of dwarfs
(2) - There are 2 kinds of paint they have access to
(3) - They all or at least some of them paint their houses once in a while, if it was just Taeyeon, she wouldn't have to face a choice every time and the problem would make no sense (plus some of your wording kind of implies they do)
(4) - They are all guided by popularity as if others colored their houses randomly this problem would not have a solution, so the proof should in theory work for any random dwarf, not just Taeyeon
(5) - There is an even number of them since you don't present 50/50 option in condition, meaning it's always less or more, so amount of friends one dwarf has is always odd
(6) - I assume Taeyeon isn't making new friends as she's painting neither do they chose to paint at the very same time but I'm 6am-tired and I'm not 100% sure it even matters as in theory they could all be split in pairs at any given moment and interesting things could be happening (thanks god they are all lesbians or it could get much more complicated).

1 is already stated by me, as is 2. These are valid.
3 is an assumption without proof, as it never said she always faced an either-or choice, just that she considers repainting her house, and that if she were (which also isn't stated as a definite) to, these are the rules by which she would abide. Xyz offers no proof other than "sounds like this is what you mean" for her rationale.
4 is obvious, it's clear that the choice isn't random as it's clearly specified within the question as a requirement and is the whole basis of the problem, not even sure why this is included.
5 is irrelevant - my proof states why.
6 is irrelevant - my proof states why.

So, yeah. No.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Jul 28 2013, 01:50 PM
/shrugs perhaps the ppl you consulted have similar thought patterns to yourself and therefore understood your answer perfectly? i was just suggesting the reason why your answer was deemed less correct because i personally don't think you expressed it as clearly as xyz because i recognised her's as the correct answer almost instantaneously. (but girl you consulted other ppl about this omg that's dedication)

also, ia with orange that your prefacing your more correct answer (6) with 1-5 was a little (to me, it makes it seem as though you both didn't read the question carefully enough and read it too carefully at the same time, which isn't logical but watevs).. read anon above. orange kept mentioning that the premises were implicit in the qn and now i know why. it wasn't really for my benefit lol
Yeah, I wanted to be sure, so I asked my friends, and they enjoy solving puzzles like this as well. They're Oxbridge students, though, so I guess that might affect something? Tho, we were convinced that the answers I had were too simple, so I didn't want to give them straight away, which I guess was pretty detrimental. :rofl:

Maybe I should give my most complex answer first in the future, then, presuming more brainteasers follow this pattern.
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