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Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 10:20 PM (722,600 Views)
Artichoke
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Die Zicke
Jul 31 2013, 03:54 AM
Point taken, Arti.
What?

It might have something to do with probability theory.
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Die Zicke
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Caffeine is good for you.
Artichoke
Jul 31 2013, 03:55 AM
Die Zicke
Jul 31 2013, 03:54 AM
Point taken, Arti.
What?

It might have something to do with probability theory.
I just thought someone would have a more complete, succinct explanation than just the general definition I know, that's all.
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orangedaffodils
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Die Zicke
Jul 31 2013, 03:50 AM
Does anybody have an explanation for Occam's razor? I know the general principle but thought you math-centered people might help me fill me in with a more detailed explanation.
I don't really know...sorry i'm kinda useless here - it's a little too philosophical for me; not enough numbers. All I know is that it's involved with the scientific method (which tbh, most scientists don't really follow anyway. Stuff usually happens by mistake) :P

@Arti: ok! just gimme a couple minutes to find an old question

@ihlita: LOL I will try to do it over the weekend. it's difficult b/c most of my time involves doing math or what have you; not a lot of room for overlap during the day. we can't all be awesome and get paid for our art like you :D
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Artichoke
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Die Zicke
Jul 31 2013, 03:57 AM
I just thought someone would have a more complete, succinct explanation than just the general definition I know, that's all.
Well, judging from the theory itself, it's best to stick with that general definition. ;)

But, I don't think there is a more complicated explanation. When given two hypotheses, according to Occam's Razor, it's better to stick with the simplest, because it's broader and therefore has more chance of being true. So it might have some calculations in probability theory, but I think that this is more of a field for formal logic rather than maths.
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 31 2013, 03:59 AM
I don't really know...sorry i'm kinda useless here - it's a little too philosophical for me; not enough numbers. All I know is that it's involved with the scientific method (which tbh, most scientists don't really follow anyway. Stuff usually happens by mistake) :P

@Arti: ok! just gimme a couple minutes to find an old question
lol, my psychology teacher would have an aneurysm if he heard you say that. He was determined that psychology wasn't a science because not all branches followed the scientific method as strictly as possible. :whistle:

And thanks! :P
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Psyduck
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A Wild Psyduck Appeared
Hey I gots a question! If I had 5 cookies and I were to share with one of you how many would I have left? Posted Image
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sicachu
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Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:09 AM
Hey I gots a question! If I had 5 cookies and I were to share with one of you how many would I have left? Posted Image
NONE! *poof*
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Artichoke
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Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:09 AM
Hey I gots a question! If I had 5 cookies and I were to share with one of you how many would I have left? Posted Image
Depends on who you'd share them with. If you shared them with Yul, you'd have none. She'd eat them all. :whistle:
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Artichoke
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Posted Image

Discriminating bastards... =_=
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Psyduck
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Posted Image
Look at what I found :lol:

@Arti and Sicachu Posted Image
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babycakes
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Artichoke
Jul 31 2013, 04:03 AM
lol, my psychology teacher would have an aneurysm if he heard you say that. He was determined that psychology wasn't a science because not all branches followed the scientific method as strictly as possible. :whistle:

And thanks! :P
This is so strange to me because all the psychologists I've met are extremely hurt of the butt that psychology was not recognised/continues to be devalued as a science by physicists, chemists, the like, because of it was traditionally deemed to be to "wishy-washy". My university is very heavily focused on the research design component and they always do a shit ton of calculations to try and back up their hypotheses (overcompensation, really).

Orange: I'm starting a research experiment (or maybe it's a correlational study, we haven't decided) about how electronic media affects mental health. Sounds ridiculously broad rn since I haven't done enough reading to specify the independent variables.

Zicke: I'm not certain, it does sound to be related to the scientific method. It's acutally not because you want to cast a wider net (as Arti has suggested) but because you don't want to add more assumptions/variables than necessary because this inevitably means more error/probability of what you're trying to predict happening due to chance more than anything else. edit: I guess what I mean is that you assume the hypothesis that contains the fewest extraneous variables/assumptions to be the most likely to be true because it is least likely to be reliant on chance/other sources of error. And then you attempt to find support for it via experiments.
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orangedaffodils
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Let ε <0
ok!!

BONUS ROUND QUESTION:

Seohyun tediously lists the positive integers from 1 to 100, inclusive. Taeyeon then comes by and erases any prime number because she's a douche. Sooyoung then comes and erases any remaining multiple of 3 because Seohyun took away her junk food and she wanted vengeance. Hyoyeon, not wanting to miss out on the fun, follows suit and erases any remaining multiple of 5, and finally Ginger sits on the whiteboard effectively smearing remaining multiples of 7 as to make them indistinguishable. In the end, how many numbers remain?
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Brity Spear
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We should have some kind of challenges that i can actually do =_=
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paper.star
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s l e e p y
orangedaffodils
Jul 31 2013, 04:28 AM
ok!!

BONUS ROUND QUESTION:

Seohyun tediously lists the positive integers from 1 to 100, inclusive. Taeyeon then comes by and erases any prime number because she's a douche. Sooyoung then comes and erases any remaining multiple of 3 because Seohyun took away her junk food and she wanted vengeance. Hyoyeon, not wanting to miss out on the fun, follows suit and erases any remaining multiple of 5, and finally Ginger sits on the whiteboard effectively smearing remaining multiples of 7 as to make them indistinguishable. In the end, how many numbers remain?
is this a trick question
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orangedaffodils
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paper.star
Jul 31 2013, 04:38 AM
is this a trick question
no! it's legit! :P
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Jul 31 2013, 04:28 AM
Zicke: I'm not certain, it does sound to be related to the scientific method. It's acutally not because you want to cast a wider net (as Arti has suggested) but because you don't want to add more assumptions/variables than necessary because this inevitably means more error/probability of what you're trying to predict happening due to chance more than anything else.
idk, I was trying to think about it in terms of probability theory, since she asked about maths, but I've really no clue as to how I would integrate that, so I made an assumption. :P

From how I understand it, it's definitely more to do with the scalability of the model. If you add more stuff to do with a hypothesis that's supposed to act as a basis for other things, like if you want to make a point from which you can develop other theories, you should do it very simply, because you can complicate things infinitely and the application of it is likely to get so complex it'll become unusable, especially if you want to use that theory to explain more complicated things.
So, if I want to talk about a theory that encompasses something to do with how we interpret sense data, I shouldn't add more information than necessary, because there are a huge number of ways to talk about that, and when it comes to talking about individual kinds of sense data and the variants thereof, it'll become even more complicated, and it'll just end up sounding like a mess.



dis is fab
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Psyduck
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Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:36 AM
We should have some kind of challenges that i can actually do =_=
Brity you can try my question. What would you do if you were in my place? ;)
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Artichoke
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@Orange Is it 1? :P
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Brity Spear
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Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:40 AM
Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:36 AM
We should have some kind of challenges that i can actually do =_=
Brity you can try my question. What would you do if you were in my place? ;)
0 because you eat the rest of them? idk psy cookies isnt my forte either...
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Jul 31 2013, 04:42 AM
@Orange Is it 1? :P
Nooooooo

keep trying!
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It's been a while, so.. what is a positive integer, anyone? :$
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Psyduck
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A Wild Psyduck Appeared
Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:42 AM
Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:40 AM
Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:36 AM
We should have some kind of challenges that i can actually do =_=
Brity you can try my question. What would you do if you were in my place? ;)
0 because you eat the rest of them? idk psy cookies isnt my forte either...
Muhahaha I did eat them all! :evil:

Goodjob brity! :goldstar:
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Jeccica
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this song omfg i can't breathe kjaslkdffasdf. the intro had me rolling.
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Brity Spear
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Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:45 AM
Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:42 AM
Psyduck
Jul 31 2013, 04:40 AM
Brity Spear
Jul 31 2013, 04:36 AM
We should have some kind of challenges that i can actually do =_=
Brity you can try my question. What would you do if you were in my place? ;)
0 because you eat the rest of them? idk psy cookies isnt my forte either...
Muhahaha I did eat them all! :evil:

Goodjob brity! :goldstar:
yay i can solve things!
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paper.star
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s l e e p y
orangedaffodils
Jul 31 2013, 04:39 AM
paper.star
Jul 31 2013, 04:38 AM
is this a trick question
no! it's legit! :P
i will play your game
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orangedaffodils
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Jul 31 2013, 04:44 AM
It's been a while, so.. what is a positive integer, anyone? :$
it just means a whole number greater than 0

^_^
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 31 2013, 04:43 AM
Nooooooo

keep trying!
24? Or, 23, depending on whether 1 is a prime or not.

If that's not it, idk.
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Die Zicke
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Caffeine is good for you.
Okay well thanks for trying ladies.

I'm not nearly as good at math as you fine people so I'm just gonna hang around and wait for WGTG :nails:
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babycakes
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@Arti: perhaps a more detailed discussion another time, i am actually busy (which is unusual). i don't think your wrong about the possibly of using probability theory to explain OR. but it's more like you're trying to limit the probability of you're being incorrect, which in turn should increase your probability of correctness or something. and the objective of keeping it simple, i think, is so that it can be reliably tested. because if you're trying to legitimise a theory, you have to present evidence of its validity and reliability and this won't be possible if you are putting a clusterfuck of variables in there. it's just not feasible.
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Jul 31 2013, 04:48 AM
24? Or, 23, depending on whether 1 is a prime or not.

If that's not it, idk.
you're kinda right, but you know the drill: explanation needs to accompany an answer :nails:

also, 1 is not a prime number
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Jul 31 2013, 04:28 AM
This is so strange to me because all the psychologists I've met are extremely hurt of the butt that psychology was not recognised/continues to be devalued as a science by physicists, chemists, the like, because of it was traditionally deemed to be to "wishy-washy". My university is very heavily focused on the research design component and they always do a shit ton of calculations to try and back up their hypotheses (overcompensation, really).
Yeah, I think it's a science, even if it's not a hard one. I think my teacher just liked to be ~controversial~.
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orangedaffodils
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Die Zicke
Jul 31 2013, 04:49 AM
Okay well thanks for trying ladies.

I'm not nearly as good at math as you fine people so I'm just gonna hang around and wait for WGTG :nails:
sorry I wasn't of much help :P

AND OMG GURL I ALMOST FORGOT, THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME!! I can't wait! :dance2:
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Jul 31 2013, 04:51 AM
you're kinda right, but you know the drill: explanation needs to accompany an answer :nails:

also, 1 is not a prime number
Yeah, I didn't think so, but some of my previous maths teachers have told me that it is.

And I just wrote down all of the multiples and prime numbers. Got this, organised in lines of 10s for easy counting.
02-03-05-06-07-09-10-11-12-13
14-15-17-18-19-20-21-23-24-25
27-28-29-30-31-33-35-36-37-39
40-41-42-43-45-47-48-49-50-51
53-54-55-56-57-59-60-61-63-65
66-67-69-70-71-72-73-75-77-78
79-80-81-83-84-85-87-89-90-91
93-85-96-97-98-99

@Babycakes Personally, I wouldn't use probability theory to explain OR, since I don't think it's really got much to do with solid calculations. Zicke asked for a maths explanation, and that's the closest link I could find, so I guessed as to what it might be.
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paper.star
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s l e e p y
IT IS 23
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Jul 31 2013, 04:53 AM
Yeah, I didn't think so, but some of my previous maths teachers have told me that it is.

And I just wrote down all of the multiples and prime numbers. Got this, organised in lines of 10s for easy counting.
02-03-05-06-07-09-10-11-12-13
14-15-17-18-19-20-21-23-24-25
27-28-29-30-31-33-35-36-37-39
40-41-42-43-45-47-48-49-50-51
53-54-55-56-57-59-60-61-63-65
66-67-69-70-71-72-73-75-77-78
79-80-81-83-84-85-87-89-90-91
93-85-96-97-98-99
ok, but a chart doesn't really tell me anything. What did you do? How did you manipulate those numbers?

@paper: gurl, explanation if you want credit. :nails:
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