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Korean Pop Culture
Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 08:10 AM (211,447 Views)
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lol at the anon like you only think she wasn't in the wrong because you don't understand what went on properly :eyeroll:
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Ihla
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I need insoles
The more I listen to SP!CA's Tonight, the more I like it. Gave the english version a listen as well and yup, the Korean ver. is definitely superior.
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Sep 7 2013, 12:14 AM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 09:12 PM
^Anon above conveniently ignoring that H@ra tried to laugh it off at first. Tired of arguing about this though. Some of ya'll need to learn about microaggression before making comments.
x2
she tried to downplay it at first then asked not to talk about it more than once, as hosts they should have listened not carried on making her uncomfortable which lead to her crying
that's normal on the show. on toopm's episode they were trying to figure out who broke t@ecyeon's arm and kept pushing them until one of them admitted doing it. that's kim gur@'s specialty, and he's known for criticizing celebrities and politicians on his shows. that's what the audience likes about him.

you can hate the concept of the show, but if you willingly guest on the show you should know what treatment to expect. if every guest decided that they don't want to talk about their scandals on the show, the hosts would have nothing to discuss.
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Artichoke
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Anon
Sep 6 2013, 07:13 PM
da Sorry, but I can't let this go. "If this was a male idol" is completely irrelevant to the topic and an informal fallacy. A man will never experience what H@ra did in this situation. It's superficial as fuck to even equate the two. Saying she could have done this or that differently is just subtle oppression. Her job is to entertain not listen to derogatory comments and be harassed on television.

At the end of the day she is a goddamn human being. She told them to stop and she tried to keep her composure, but she couldn't. She shouldn't be blamed for showing emotion ffs.
Her job is to act in a professional capacity. She willingly signed onto this variety business, and she should know what to expect from it (which wasn't even that bad, imo, but that might be a personal standard and this may be sensitive for her, so the point is moot) so thus be prepared for what's going to come. If she were forced to be present, that's another story, although I'd still argue it's her responsibility as an idol to be mindful of the public image because that's part of her job description. Again, she should know what the show is like, and she should know what they're going to talk about, so she should adequately prepare for it.

An idol is a product, engineered to be in and appeal to the public eye within the confines of the personality that's been created for them, and your job is to stick to that, because you're not selling your music, you're selling you. You go on variety shows, you play along with the theme to promote yourself as a polished image, you gain fans who feed into that image, you maintain that image throughout your career, because that's the responsibility of an idol.

I would expect the same conduct of any person who worked in that industry, because that's their job. Any idol who goes on a variety that's famed for bringing up scandals and talking about them should expect them to bring up a scandal they've had and respond professionally, and that's what they do. I expect her to act how all of the other idols on that show have acted, but she didn't, and she instead reacted both immaturely and unprofessionally. I don't suddenly become more sympathetic because the idol in question happens to be a female.

Everyone has to do things that they don't like doing, especially when working, but that doesn't mean avoiding those things should be accepted because they cry about it. If she can't handle being an idol, she should quit.

We should agree to disagree.
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Sep 7 2013, 12:26 AM
Anon
Sep 7 2013, 12:14 AM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 09:12 PM
^Anon above conveniently ignoring that H@ra tried to laugh it off at first. Tired of arguing about this though. Some of ya'll need to learn about microaggression before making comments.
x2
she tried to downplay it at first then asked not to talk about it more than once, as hosts they should have listened not carried on making her uncomfortable which lead to her crying
that's normal on the show. on toopm's episode they were trying to figure out who broke t@ecyeon's arm and kept pushing them until one of them admitted doing it. that's kim gur@'s specialty, and he's known for criticizing celebrities and politicians on his shows. that's what the audience likes about him.

you can hate the concept of the show, but if you willingly guest on the show you should know what treatment to expect. if every guest decided that they don't want to talk about their scandals on the show, the hosts would have nothing to discuss.
da
they should be respectful that the girl is obviously uncomfortable and asking not to talk about it
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1- girl asks to stop
2- they don't and keep pressuring her about it
3- she starts crying
4- they act all awkward almost on purpose to make her look even worse

yeah, I would throw my bottle
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Artichoke
Sep 7 2013, 01:01 AM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 07:13 PM
da Sorry, but I can't let this go. "If this was a male idol" is completely irrelevant to the topic and an informal fallacy. A man will never experience what H@ra did in this situation. It's superficial as fuck to even equate the two. Saying she could have done this or that differently is just subtle oppression. Her job is to entertain not listen to derogatory comments and be harassed on television.

At the end of the day she is a goddamn human being. She told them to stop and she tried to keep her composure, but she couldn't. She shouldn't be blamed for showing emotion ffs.
Her job is to act in a professional capacity. She willingly signed onto this variety business, and she should know what to expect from it (which wasn't even that bad, imo, but that might be a personal standard and this may be sensitive for her, so the point is moot) so thus be prepared for what's going to come. If she were forced to be present, that's another story, although I'd still argue it's her responsibility as an idol to be mindful of the public image because that's part of her job description. Again, she should know what the show is like, and she should know what they're going to talk about, so she should adequately prepare for it.

An idol is a product, engineered to be in and appeal to the public eye within the confines of the personality that's been created for them, and your job is to stick to that, because you're not selling your music, you're selling you. You go on variety shows, you play along with the theme to promote yourself as a polished image, you gain fans who feed into that image, you maintain that image throughout your career, because that's the responsibility of an idol.

I would expect the same conduct of any person who worked in that industry, because that's their job. Any idol who goes on a variety that's famed for bringing up scandals and talking about them should expect them to bring up a scandal they've had and respond professionally, and that's what they do. I expect her to act how all of the other idols on that show have acted, but she didn't, and she instead reacted both immaturely and unprofessionally. I don't suddenly become more sympathetic because the idol in question happens to be a female.

Everyone has to do things that they don't like doing, especially when working, but that doesn't mean avoiding those things should be accepted because they cry about it. If she can't handle being an idol, she should quit.

We should agree to disagree.
da she's human btw not a robot idol or not.
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Artichoke
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Anon
Sep 7 2013, 01:08 AM
da she's human btw not a robot idol or not.
You're right, she's a human, who makes her own decisions and should be responsible for them. If she can't handle the requirements of the job, she should quit.

I think it's just a matter of personal opinion, here. At the end of the day, I have absolutely no sympathy for her, but you most likely do, so... that's that, I guess.
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Frost
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Stand by Mode.
Artichoke
Sep 7 2013, 01:12 AM
Anon
Sep 7 2013, 01:08 AM
da she's human btw not a robot idol or not.
You're right, she's a human, who makes her own decisions and should be responsible for them. If she can't handle the requirements of the job, she should quit.

I think it's just a matter of personal opinion, here. At the end of the day, I have absolutely no sympathy for her, but you most likely do, so... that's that, I guess.
You're like the less empathic person I've ever seen :rofl:
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Artichoke
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Frost
Sep 7 2013, 01:16 AM
You're like the less empathic person I've ever seen :rofl:
I wouldn't doubt it. I don't tend to care about people.
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Ihla
Sep 7 2013, 12:26 AM
The more I listen to SP!CA's Tonight, the more I like it. Gave the english version a listen as well and yup, the Korean ver. is definitely superior.
There is an english version?
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Ihla
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Way to dehumanize a person, Artichoke.
Idols or not, they're still entitled to basic human rights, like I don't know, privacy.
.
@Anon above: There is, and I for one didn't like it.

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Artichoke
Sep 7 2013, 01:20 AM
Frost
Sep 7 2013, 01:16 AM
You're like the less empathic person I've ever seen :rofl:
I wouldn't doubt it. I don't tend to care about people.
Are you a sociopath?
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Artichoke
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Ihla
Sep 7 2013, 01:21 AM
Way to dehumanize a persong, Artichoke.
Idols or not, they're still entitled to basic human rights, like I don't know, privacy.
They're entitled to privacy, which they can get when they quit. If they choose a profession that revolves around being in the public eye, they can't turn around and complain about the very same thing.

If you can't endure people being interested in your life, then being an idol isn't for you, so quit.
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Artichoke
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Sep 7 2013, 01:23 AM
Are you a sociopath?
Probably not.

This is OT, so... Chat thread?
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she makes millions by selling a certain image to the public.
this image is the bond between the idol and the public, and allows her to get cf deals, drama roles, album sales, requests for show appearances etc.

as a human with free will, she can break this bond by presenting an image inconsistent with this. however she must deal with the consequences of doing so.
you can act unprofessionally on a show and you can make your living from the industry, but you cannot expect to do both.

she didn't just cry, she showed her temper at the mcs who were doing their jobs. they're not going to treat her with kid gloves just because she's a female or because she doesn't feel comfortable: she is not the first or last to be put in an uncomfortable position on that show. they will do their jobs and treat her like any other guest.

in the end, i hope both parties learned something from the experience.
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Frost
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Stand by Mode.
What worries me is not the MC's reaction, is the public reaction. It's like everyone is hating on her now.
And the slut shaming is getting me on my nerves. Damn oppa lovers.
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Yuwree
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Sep 6 2013, 07:53 PM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 07:48 PM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 07:23 PM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 06:31 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
i'm not arguing in the first place i just don't agree with your view lol that he doesn't give a fuck when he plays up the idol image to get albums sold.

on variety shows he does exactly that watch him on that singing show or any variety he's done in korea. i used to be a fan but i got tired of his arrogance and acting like he's above being an idol then see him going on variety shows and putting on a nicer image and doing the things his friends laugh at on his youtube channel to sell more albums in korea.

this isn't going anywhere i don't think and i've said the variety thing like 4 times already so no point saying it again after this
you're stuck on variety that's why. i'm saying everything they do, whether it's on variety or twatter or IG, it's all judged by the public eye. anything that is on the internet, on camera in pictures and film will be judged.

anyway, i don't like him because he's not good at anything. he's an average rapper, dancer, singer at best.
da
I think he was the best performer on 2peeeem
compared to the others of course
I agree with this anon ^
+ he's actually a pretty good dancer, as far as idols go.

Atleast he didn't audition as a model and get promoted to a singer =\
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Dyslexia
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Shit, if I were an idol I'd get bashed so much
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Oh god forbid a female crying and showing real feelings on TV, jesus christ some of you are making the excuse that she should have been prepared, she should have expected that in her culture, she should be a robot by now and that really worries me about your perspectives on human rights. The idol life is scary as it is seeing what SNSD went through and the hate they've been dealt with and now to go about shaming another idol for standing up and showing her feelings!? no girls should go through this ever, she signed up to entertain not to be mocked directly by her supposed friend and then attacked by the public for something he caused then having all these men trying to talk some gossip out of her when she is clearly uncomfortable. The asian entertainment industry itself really need to change in regards to female rights and general working conditions in the industry. I guess some would have strong feelings for the culture and traditions, but come on things can't carry on like this, women cannot be treated like this.
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Artichoke
Sep 7 2013, 01:01 AM
Anon
Sep 6 2013, 07:13 PM
da Sorry, but I can't let this go. "If this was a male idol" is completely irrelevant to the topic and an informal fallacy. A man will never experience what H@ra did in this situation. It's superficial as fuck to even equate the two. Saying she could have done this or that differently is just subtle oppression. Her job is to entertain not listen to derogatory comments and be harassed on television.

At the end of the day she is a goddamn human being. She told them to stop and she tried to keep her composure, but she couldn't. She shouldn't be blamed for showing emotion ffs.
Her job is to act in a professional capacity. She willingly signed onto this variety business, and she should know what to expect from it (which wasn't even that bad, imo, but that might be a personal standard and this may be sensitive for her, so the point is moot) so thus be prepared for what's going to come. If she were forced to be present, that's another story, although I'd still argue it's her responsibility as an idol to be mindful of the public image because that's part of her job description. Again, she should know what the show is like, and she should know what they're going to talk about, so she should adequately prepare for it.

An idol is a product, engineered to be in and appeal to the public eye within the confines of the personality that's been created for them, and your job is to stick to that, because you're not selling your music, you're selling you. You go on variety shows, you play along with the theme to promote yourself as a polished image, you gain fans who feed into that image, you maintain that image throughout your career, because that's the responsibility of an idol.

I would expect the same conduct of any person who worked in that industry, because that's their job. Any idol who goes on a variety that's famed for bringing up scandals and talking about them should expect them to bring up a scandal they've had and respond professionally, and that's what they do. I expect her to act how all of the other idols on that show have acted, but she didn't, and she instead reacted both immaturely and unprofessionally. I don't suddenly become more sympathetic because the idol in question happens to be a female.

Everyone has to do things that they don't like doing, especially when working, but that doesn't mean avoiding those things should be accepted because they cry about it. If she can't handle being an idol, she should quit.

We should agree to disagree.
DA I agree with you

It's their job. It's not like only celebrities that give up some human right for their job. many other jobs have to give up some human right too It's professional and viewers have right to complain too because they paid TV subscription fee and watched TV commercials for their work. they should show what viewers want. It's responsibility
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Artichoke
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Dyslexia
Sep 7 2013, 02:42 AM
Shit, if I were an idol I'd get bashed so much
I think most people would. I certainly don't think I could handle working as hard as they do.
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Dyslexia
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Artichoke
Sep 7 2013, 02:50 AM
Dyslexia
Sep 7 2013, 02:42 AM
Shit, if I were an idol I'd get bashed so much
I think most people would. I certainly don't think I could handle working as hard as they do.
I'd probably end up in jail :unsure:
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Artichoke
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Sep 7 2013, 02:49 AM
Oh god forbid a female crying and showing real feelings on TV, jesus christ some of you are making the excuse that she should have been prepared, she should have expected that in her culture, she should be a robot by now and that really worries me about your perspectives on human rights. The idol life is scary as it is seeing what SNSD went through and the hate they've been dealt with and now to go about shaming another idol for standing up and showing her feelings!? no girls should go through this ever, she signed up to entertain not to be mocked directly by her supposed friend and then attacked by the public for something he caused then having all these men trying to talk some gossip out of her when she is clearly uncomfortable. The asian entertainment industry itself really need to change in regards to female rights and general working conditions in the industry. I guess some would have strong feelings for the culture and traditions, but come on things can't carry on like this, women cannot be treated like this.
It's not about showing her feelings, it's the context within which she did it. If she had said afterwards in a polite way that the show was uncomfortable for her because she was sensitive about her scandals, and that it was a difficult thing to address publicly, that would be the professional thing to do, and I'd respect that she dealt with her discomfort in a mature and dignified way. But, since she went through with the filming of her own volition and chose to reject the responsibility that came with her choice, that's her own fault, and I don't see why that should brook sympathy.

She should expect her life and actions to be in public scrutiny, because that's part and parcel of the idol career. In fact, it's a career that revolves entirely around putting yourself at the mercy of the public, and so if she had issues with being put in that situation, these are issues she should have resolved before becoming an idol, or just accepted that the requirements of being an idol were beyond her and not became one. It's a bit like a nurse complaining about having to tend to sick people and throwing a tantrum about it in a hospital - that's what the job is, it's ridiculous to complain about it upsetting you to this degree when you made the decision to follow this path on your own.

Although, I agree that the industry should be improved. It seems like a terrible place to be for people in general, not just women, and I'm certainly not arguing against that.
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yeah she should handle whatever thrown at her bla bla bla
so you agree with all the slut shaming and backlash this girl is getting just for crying?

and the asshole from s00j00, don't you think it was terrible for him to do that to his friend when she asked him personally to not talk about her dating life?
imagine if it was a girl doing the hosting and the victim was a male idol, you think they would blame who?

All this shit is coming from oppar fangirls
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Artichoke
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Sep 7 2013, 03:02 AM
yeah she should handle whatever thrown at her bla bla bla
so you agree with all the slut shaming and backlash this girl is getting just for crying?
I don't agree with the slut-shaming, no, but I also don't agree with absolving her of any blame just because she was upset. Thinking she was out of line =/= Women should be oppressed.

Sep 7 2013, 03:02 AM
and the asshole from s00j00, don't you think it was terrible for him to do that to his friend when she asked him personally to not talk about her dating life?
No. That was his job, and she was there to talk about it.

tl;dr She can be unprofessional and still not deserve the asshole comments that she's getting.
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Sep 7 2013, 12:24 AM
lol at the anon like you only think she wasn't in the wrong because you don't understand what went on properly :eyeroll:
Keep rolling your eyes and enjoying your status as a second class citizen. It's upsetting honestly that you'd rather focus on so called unprofessionalism and not the underlying reason behind why this has even become an issue.

I really cannot at people with the job excuse. The idol industry is litered with problems and the fact that you're just talking about it as if this should just be accepted and that's it is just ridiculous.

I'm floored that a lesbian forum is really defending that show. You'd think an oppressed group would actually have some empathy.
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Ihla
Sep 7 2013, 01:21 AM
Way to dehumanize a person, Artichoke.
Idols or not, they're still entitled to basic human rights, like I don't know, privacy.
.
@Anon above: There is, and I for one didn't like it.

i liked the song. my music taste is beyond questionable 'cos i also loved Sica's 'do you believe in this situation?'. i felt it's sexy. she might speak ' do you like cat burger?' and i still digged it.

after i read Artichoke's, i thrilled. she may reflect the opinion of those koreans who bashed Harakiri. we asian often shade the westerner for your individualism but we are becoming heartless collectivists who curse someone who violate the major norm to death. i thought Japan was the strongest collective society but they still leave a tiny space for the rebels. the korean is also extremely double standarded. they were indifferent to geedee's weed smoking 'cos he was an artist but an idol is being chopped just for crying in a dissing program. an artist can do any wild thing but an idol can only be a smiling doll.
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Sep 7 2013, 03:11 AM
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Sep 7 2013, 12:24 AM
lol at the anon like you only think she wasn't in the wrong because you don't understand what went on properly :eyeroll:
Keep rolling your eyes and enjoying your status as a second class citizen. It's upsetting honestly that you'd rather focus on so called unprofessionalism and not the underlying reason behind why this has even become an issue.

I really cannot at people with the job excuse. The idol industry is litered with problems and the fact that you're just talking about it as if this should just be accepted and that's it is just ridiculous.

I'm floored that a lesbian forum is really defending that show. You'd think an oppressed group would actually have some empathy.
lol you can replace the dating scandal with any other scandal and she'd still get backlash because she handled herself poorly in public.

don't think that you can guilt the people here into defending her because of some "us girls should stick together" mentality. i'll call a spade a spade, regardless of her gender.

1nfinite's leader got backlash because he disrespected a female sunbae on a show and he got hate for 'top-star' mentality by refusing to do aegyo on a show. his 'male status' didn't protect him.


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oh she handled herself poorly in public *gasp* how dare she
women these days right?

Spoiler: click to toggle


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Artichoke
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Sep 7 2013, 03:27 AM
they were indifferent to geedee's weed smoking 'cos he was an artist but an idol is being chopped just for crying in a dissing program. an artist can do any wild thing but an idol can only be a smiling doll.
That's a different situation entirely. GeeD's decision to smoke weed is a personal one and is a self-contained action, whereas H@ra's tantrum was in a professional capacity, and therefore reflects appropriately on her professionalism.

Plus, smoking weed isn't really a "wild" thing, even if it does happen to be illegal. Idols drink alcohol in their spare time and that's much the same thing.
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I noticed since we talked about NU3ST. some anons in here don't understand that It's a business and idol is a job that sell their image, not their music or talent.
and funny. I think japan is more harsh about idol. one idol girl kicked out because she smoked
when she came back to industry. MC gave her cigarette -_-


Spoiler: click to toggle
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Sep 7 2013, 03:32 AM
oh she handled herself poorly in public *gasp* how dare she
women these days right?

Spoiler: click to toggle


keep acting like a victim and you'll be treated like one.

the mentality in that gif is the kind of mentality that people use to excuse themselves of responsibility for their actions.

in this world, where humans interact with each other, we should all strive to be 'proper' with one another because our actions affect each other. i can react however i want to others, but i must also accept that people will react to me. you should be considerate of others and have the ability understand the trade-offs of behaving a certain way. you don't have to act how others want, but you should have the maturity to acknowledge that people will respond.
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Sep 7 2013, 03:11 AM
Anon
Sep 7 2013, 12:24 AM
lol at the anon like you only think she wasn't in the wrong because you don't understand what went on properly :eyeroll:
Keep rolling your eyes and enjoying your status as a second class citizen. It's upsetting honestly that you'd rather focus on so called unprofessionalism and not the underlying reason behind why this has even become an issue.

I really cannot at people with the job excuse. The idol industry is litered with problems and the fact that you're just talking about it as if this should just be accepted and that's it is just ridiculous.

I'm floored that a lesbian forum is really defending that show. You'd think an oppressed group would actually have some empathy.
x2 This is a serious issue, How can people not see that she is shamed because she is a female showing anger towards older males trying to slut shame her. She is attacked because she is a female failing to be 'perfect' for the viewers and korean standards of professionalism.

Sure professionalism is important in this industry regardless of gender but some of you calling 'boo-hoo' when some of us want to show you the bigger picture and the huge gap between how male idols are treated and how female idols are treated just doesn't sit right with me.
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Sep 7 2013, 03:28 AM
Anon
Sep 7 2013, 03:11 AM
Anon
Sep 7 2013, 12:24 AM
lol at the anon like you only think she wasn't in the wrong because you don't understand what went on properly :eyeroll:
Keep rolling your eyes and enjoying your status as a second class citizen. It's upsetting honestly that you'd rather focus on so called unprofessionalism and not the underlying reason behind why this has even become an issue.

I really cannot at people with the job excuse. The idol industry is litered with problems and the fact that you're just talking about it as if this should just be accepted and that's it is just ridiculous.

I'm floored that a lesbian forum is really defending that show. You'd think an oppressed group would actually have some empathy.
lol you can replace the dating scandal with any other scandal and she'd still get backlash because she handled herself poorly in public.

don't think that you can guilt the people here into defending her because of some "us girls should stick together" mentality. i'll call a spade a spade, regardless of her gender.

1nfinite's leader got backlash because he disrespected a female sunbae on a show and he got hate for 'top-star' mentality by refusing to do aegyo on a show. his 'male status' didn't protect him.


The dating scandal is what happened. That is part of the context of this situation. Just stop with the "what if" because it's not relevant.

Funny you bring up 1nfinite's leader who was under fire for a sexist comment which is actually problematic and not even close to H@ra's "disrespect".

This will go nowhere though. Thanks for the discussion I guess.
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