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Korean Pop Culture
Topic Started: Jan 30 2013, 08:10 AM (211,436 Views)
The Anon
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Whenever I try to explain cultural differences and prevent foreigners from making uneducated guesses about my country I, too, refuse to converse with them and start of my sentences in a condescending tone.

... I don't normally engage in these debates (and have stayed away the last time this happened), but I see nothing in what was said today as having warranted that response. Most people were genuinely curious. :-/
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babycakes
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Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 05:09 PM
Blast, there goes my hopes of raking my eyes suggestively over females in Korea. :-/
I feel ya bud :dramaqueen:
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that anon was totally miss my point so I refuse to converse
and what was condescending tone ? my English writing have always been like this. I just posted like as usual
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
babycakes
Sep 17 2013, 05:22 PM
I feel ya bud :dramaqueen:
Sad times for us all, my friend. :(
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I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
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The Anon
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Sep 17 2013, 05:28 PM
that anon was totally miss my point so I refuse to converse
and what was condescending tone ? my English writing have always been like this. I just posted like as usual
I know you just posted as usual. It is precisely why I felt a need to say something. Yeah, it's the tone. This could be a language barrier issue, but the things you say come of as dismissive and rude at times. Don't take this as me taking sides. I do understand your need to point out cultural differences, but surely there has to be a different way of doing so?
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Sep 17 2013, 05:28 PM
my English writing have always been like this. I just posted like as usual
then obviously you should change it because it comes across as condescending, defensive, and quite whiny too
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Posted Image

Posted Image

:faint:
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well people dismissed my explain too

massive lesbo crush and hot and kiss to break the tension

even I explained It's rude


I never learn how to write English tone
and don't even teach it in here
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
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Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 06:19 PM
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
what should I say then?
when I said It's rude three times but they just ignore it
what should I say except "don't try to understand"
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Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 06:19 PM
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
da
what are you talking about? you know nothing
I won't talk to you anymore
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The Anon
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Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 06:19 PM
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
I don't mind not understanding things, Artie. There is, in fact, a lot I do not understand about Korea, which is why I don't claim ultimate wisdom when a lot of Korea related topics are brought up. What comes of as condescending is being told you do not understand cultural differences, attached to a lot of "sighs", "as usuals", etc. Besides, any attempt at pointing out these differences seems rather futile if the starting point is "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean" (as was the case previously... I think the argument was about democratization).
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Artichoke
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Sep 17 2013, 06:27 PM
what should I say then?
when I said It's rude three times but they just ignore it
what should I say except "don't try to understand"
I understand that it can be frustrating if people aren't fully knowledgeable about your cultural norms and seem to be ignoring what you have to say when you try and explain, but perhaps try and be a little more patient, if you want to avoid being called condescending. Sometimes people are asking because they want to know more, but aren't aware enough of what to say to avoid potentially offensive questions.

Personally, I don't have a problem with how you phrase things. I'm used to talking to people who have trouble with their tone in English, including native speakers, so I just put it down to a language barrier. :P
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strawberry shortcake
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Sep 17 2013, 06:16 PM
well people dismissed my explain too

massive lesbo crush and hot and kiss to break the tension

even I explained It's rude


I never learn how to write English tone
and don't even teach it in here
First, I'll just express my gratitude to you for attempting to inform us on your culture. I can understand what you're saying about lacking knowledge of formal/polite forms, which is why I hadn't mentioned it before even if you could come off a little.. blunt.

As for the words you italicised, I said it jokingly (and I assume the other respondents did also). Try not to take us too seriously. Well, honestly, if you've read half of the things I've posted on this forum, you don't need to be told.

 :grouphug:
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Artichoke
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The Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:35 PM
I don't mind not understanding things, Artie. There is, in fact, a lot I do not understand about Korea, which is why I don't claim ultimate wisdom when a lot of Korea related topics are brought up. What comes of as condescending is being told you do not understand cultural differences, attached to a lot of "sighs", "as usuals", etc. Besides, any attempt at pointing out these differences seems rather futile if the starting point is "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean" (as was the case previously... I think the argument was about democratization).
Yeah, I didn't realise that. The implication that people "can't understand" rather than "don't understand" is a definitely part of the problem, I think.

It's natural to say "you don't understand this subject as well as someone who lives in Korea and experiences it first hand", and that's a pretty accurate perspective, but saying it's impossible for someone to understand is just insulting, because it implies you're stupid rather than just lacking knowledge.
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I said as usual because It's really as usual

and democratization
you better not to say about politics if you don't know situation.
It's really sensitive issue. and I remember that too.
one anon said "fuck you netizen"
It was reasonable people so upset about it. It wasn't just idol hating
but saying like whole netizens are same person and It was wrong blaming about it
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I think It's insulting too saying "fuck you" when people blaming about really sensitive situation.
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Artichoke
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Anon
Sep 17 2013, 07:03 PM
I said as usual because It's really as usual

and democratization
you better not to say about politics if you don't know situation.
It's really sensitive issue. and I remember that too.
one anon said "fuck you netizen"
It was reasonable people so upset about it. It wasn't just idol hating
but saying like whole netizens are same person and It was wrong blaming about it
It may seem so, yes, and I can understand why you'd be frustrated at people not knowing things about your country then seeming to ignore what you have to say to correct them, but when people think you're acting condescending towards them, they're even less likely to listen to what you have to say. Being told that they "can't understand", or that it's "impossible" for them to say anything, will sour their opinion of you and be more inclined to think you're correcting them just to be pedantic, or just won't read what you post because they think you'll respond in a potentially insulting way.

I think that asking people to refrain from making uninformed judgements is a reasonable request, especially given something which has a lot of difficult history behind it which most non-Koreans probably won't be aware of, but if people are interested and want to learn, it might be better off explaining to them what the situation actually is, rather than just telling them not to comment. A lot of people here probably won't have much access to a Korean perspective, so they won't be very aware of societal norms within Korea and will therefore make a lot of incorrect guesses about what Korean culture is like and what's going on within Korea, which can - again, reasonably - upset you. However, you (and the minority of other k-anons here) will probably be their only access to understanding events as Koreans see them, so them not listening to you will only perpetuate more of the same (although that's a two-way street - they should also try and look things up on their own, but that might be difficult without any idea of what exactly they should look up, and not all sources they find will be reliable).

Like I said, if they don't have a favourable impression of you or your posts, they probably won't want to listen to you, since it may seem like you're just insulting them. Even if it is "as usual", it might be better to omit that so people don't think you're being intentionally offensive, which I'm sure is not true.

lol tl;dr :P
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well I said 'don't try to understand' and I didn't say "impossible"

It wasn't about commenting situation, It was judging Koreans about the situation.
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Artichoke
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Sep 17 2013, 07:33 PM
well I said 'don't try to understand' and I didn't say "impossible"

It wasn't about commenting situation, It was judging Koreans about the situation.
I think I remember you talking about how we shouldn't judge all of Korea or all of the Korean netizens because of the translated comments on that one site, yeah.

Well, I admit, I can't remember your exact wording, so I might be wrong about this. :$
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I think "don't try to understand" and "can't understand" is different. isn't it?

I remember democratization situation
one anon said "fuck you netizen" and netizens are just wrong.
but netizens just said their "opinion" too. isn't it?
so I said don't judge Koreans who expressing "opinion" about this situation

is it "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean" ??


anyway I should go to sleep now.. go to trip at morning
happy Chuseok . there will be many idol shows I think..
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whatever
I still think it's condescending town (and I'm not gonna kiss ass) and don't play innocent with me
I doubt you talk like this in korean
why be so defensive with us?
you have this i-fans versus korea thing which I have no idea where you got it from
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Sep 17 2013, 07:54 PM
whatever
I still think it's condescending town (and I'm not gonna kiss ass) and don't play innocent with me
I doubt you talk like this in korean
why be so defensive with us?
you have this i-fans versus korea thing which I have no idea where you got it from
I mean tone
wtf lol
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Btw

http://askakorean.blogspot.com.br/2008/07/why-are-koreans-hyper-sensitive-to.html
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I don't know why telling fact is defensive

what was defensive thing exactly?
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Artichoke
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Sep 17 2013, 07:54 PM
I think "don't try to understand" and "can't understand" is different. isn't it?

I remember democratization situation
one anon said "fuck you netizen" and netizens are just wrong.
but netizens just said their "opinion" too. isn't it?
so I said don't judge Koreans who expressing "opinion" about this situation

is it "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean" ??


anyway I should go to sleep now.. go to trip at morning
happy Chuseok . there will be many idol shows I think..
In a way, they're the same. If you say, "don't try to understand", that carries the implication that, even if they do try to understand, they won't be able to, so, in effect, it does mean "you can't understand". It also shuts them out of the conversation, which some people might see as being rude.

I don't think anyone should be judged for only expressing their opinion, so I agree with you there. That doesn't mean opinions aren't open for being criticised - if you choose to air your opinion, you accept that some people can air an opinion that's opposite to yours, or that they think your opinion is wrong. That's their opinion, and they shouldn't be judged for it, either.
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what should I say when people keep ignoring my explanation then?

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Windmill
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Gertrude
How many more times are we gonna have this exact same conversation? :lol:
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Artichoke
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Sep 17 2013, 08:07 PM
what should I say when people keep ignoring my explanation then?

I'm not sure, it depends on the context. I'd ask whether or not they understand what you're saying, or just continue to explain to them in the same way, or say "I don't think we're understanding each other"/"Let's agree to disagree".

But I'm argumentative, so I'd probably keep explaining using different words until they finally got my point. :$
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The Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:35 PM
Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 06:19 PM
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
I don't mind not understanding things, Artie. There is, in fact, a lot I do not understand about Korea, which is why I don't claim ultimate wisdom when a lot of Korea related topics are brought up. What comes of as condescending is being told you do not understand cultural differences, attached to a lot of "sighs", "as usuals", etc. Besides, any attempt at pointing out these differences seems rather futile if the starting point is "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean"(as was the case previously... I think the argument was about democratization).
da x2 there is someone in this thread who is constantly doing this
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Sep 17 2013, 08:13 PM
The Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:35 PM
Artichoke
Sep 17 2013, 06:19 PM
Anon
Sep 17 2013, 06:00 PM
I'm sure that if you try to explain about your country to Koreans with poor Korean language skill, you would use informal-Korean and simple sentences like me just like when 0mona users try to educate Koreans about black face in Korean language

and please answer right now because I will go to trip. happy Chuseok


what was condescending tone?
I don't think it's purely your tone, I think it's more your choice of words. People don't like being told they "don't understand" something, or that they're being ignorant, even if you think it's the truth (even if it is the truth, in fact), so they view that as condescending.
I don't mind not understanding things, Artie. There is, in fact, a lot I do not understand about Korea, which is why I don't claim ultimate wisdom when a lot of Korea related topics are brought up. What comes of as condescending is being told you do not understand cultural differences, attached to a lot of "sighs", "as usuals", etc. Besides, any attempt at pointing out these differences seems rather futile if the starting point is "you do not get to have an opinion because you are not Korean"(as was the case previously... I think the argument was about democratization).
da x2 there is someone in this thread who is constantly doing this
DA Yes
Maybe this is why: http://askakorean.blogspot.com.br/2008/07/why-are-koreans-hyper-sensitive-to.html
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Sep 17 2013, 08:07 PM
what should I say when people keep ignoring my explanation then?

You don't really explain things. You just say its rude or its a cultural thing and when people ask you more about it you get super defensive.
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So when the irresistible compulsion to defend Korea against non-Korean-generated criticism of Korea strikes an average Korean, she is often poorly equipped to do so. Her argumentative tools simply are not adequate to properly express her fervor. Therefore, she flails about as she tries to stand her ground, and frequently resorts to poor rhetoric and obstinate denial.


I'm trying to understand you pressed k-anon :hug:
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In terms of infrastructure and wealth, Korea is no longer a developing nation. Top fifteen economy in the world, people from South Asia coming HERE to work and send money home -- in the ways of the won, Korea's made it. It's a major player. Other countries look to Korea's development model to figure out how to raise their standard of living and set up infrastructure. One of the drags that comes with being one of the big boys is being a big target, and people pay more attention, and take more shots at big targets. Griping about facing criticism from the international community that Korea worked so hard to join, is like the little boy who wants to play soccer with his older brother's big friends, and then cries when they knock him down with a sliding tackle."


This is a nice blog
I'm just sharing these so lazy people (that don't want to read everything) can understand what's happening =_=
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