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Sad things happened to this board and this community has moved to the new place. If you lost touch with us, please find us at www.sogayshidae.com. First 10 pages of the new Forum Discussions thread should fill you in with the details of this drama. This forum was restored and frozen for archive purposes. |
| Forum Discussions | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 11 2013, 08:53 PM (57,077 Views) | |
| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 06:08 AM Post #1086 |
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I would have to consult that with the others first. If we wanted to change anything on the Forum easily enough, but that would defeat the purpose of this Forum and we do appreciate all of your opinions, even if we don't agree on a lot of things. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 06:15 AM Post #1087 |
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I did that poll as an attempt to apologise for my inappropriate behaviour; I was told to retract it, and so I did. I respected the Mods' authority on the subject. I pointed this out when one of the Mods first told me to do a poll for this, if I cared that much, and then that was overridden by Abc who gave me, I quote, "an Admin's permission" to make one, because the others were presumably too busy and couldn't find the time to redo the poll. As I said back then, I'm more than happy to offer my full capability in representing the interests of this forum through a democratic poll, no matter how trivial the issue might seem. Besides, Xyz herself said that this conversation has gone beyond mere numbers now, and that it's about the principle more than the result. You might also notice that I wasn't the only one who said something - I know Wind agreed with me on some points, as did another Anon, and it seems like a few more Anons are agreeing with me now. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 06:22 AM Post #1088 |
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I said I'd keep the poll open for an extra 12 hours, to allow the people on the main thread to vote as well. The poll will be closing at 3:16pm, or 15:16, in my local time. Please see here for the current time in my area: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=136 |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 06:29 AM Post #1089 |
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idk if what I'm feeling rn was the same abc felt but fine you win, I don't have the strenght to make you understand my point. I care about this thread but it's not my life. I hope mods take a wise decision though. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 06:31 AM Post #1090 |
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Please try, and I'll try to understand you as well. If you have concerns about how I'm conducting this poll, and think that I can do it better, this is the place to talk about it. I consider this as a job done within official capacity, so I should take it with as much seriousness as I would if I were a Mod. I would ask that you do the same thing as well, so as not to waste either of our times. |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 06:36 AM Post #1091 |
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There's nothing to hard to understand here lol we aren't speaking generally, at least I'm not. We are speaking of this specific poll, a poll that was authorized. It does not bode well for something to be authorized and then after the results its Oh gee a mod should've done this people might not take it seriously. That's bull, if they authorized it then Arti's poll was official and of no lower rank than one made by some mod. TBH I find I like having a neutral party like Arti make the poll anyhow, she's the most dedicated poll maker ever. The only reason Arti even volunteered to make this poll is because such a big deal was made about the alleged toll poll making was on some so she offered. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It doesn't even matter right now how this poll came about, what matters is that it was authorized so anything challenging that is weird. We cool, peeps.
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 06:53 AM Post #1092 |
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The only reason Arti offered was because she kept insisting that she could do a better job than Frost. You were there, you should know. And no, what matters is that now we have to question the validity of every poll made after the one made by Frost because of some sad troll who has nothing better to do than mess up a poll on a seemingly innocuous issue. Arti admitted that the poll - the one that Abc gave sanction to - wasn't representative. Although now, she posted it elsewhere, trying to get other anons to vote. And that's great! that's what should be done! However, that should've been the first thing done. I'm apt to be skeptical about results when there's been previous reason to believe they could be invalid; the troll hit and the fact that the poll was left open for 24 hrs in a place that no one save for vocally adamant opposition (from just you, really) bothers to check, and now will only remain open for 12 hrs in the place where the majority gathers, has too many free parameters for me to consider this a worthwhile endeavor. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 06:57 AM Post #1093 |
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You forget, Orange, that it was a Mod poll that was rigged in the first place. You have no less reason to trust me than you have to trust Frost, other than personal bias due to friendship. As I said, running a fair poll is something I'll be very adamant about doing, as shown by all of my previous polls in the Main Thread. If I'm so rigid about those, done for personal amusement, you have even more reason to trust that I'll be even better at a poll done in official capacity, as this is. Like I said, if you have true concerns about the validity of my poll, I'll do all within my effort to assuage them, including handing over the password to my account. If that isn't enough, then you should refrain from hosting all polls in the future, and invalidate the ones done in the past. If I can't tell if a vote is legit based on exactly the same information provided to the Mods, neither too can the Mods, and so all polls should be rendered inapplicable on those premises. |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 07:03 AM Post #1094 |
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Perhaps a bit of both but Arti only said to make the poll herself because some were complaining about lost time and Arti thought was BS because she can make far more detailed polls in no time at all so she offered since it was no trouble to her. Actually no, if we are going to question validity of poll results we would have to question the results of all polls made before as well, including the one that elected you and others as mods. Because as others have stated, this poll in a seemingly "innocuous issue" is rigged but not the ones with actual validity? Weird. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:07 AM Post #1095 |
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You forget, Arti, that it's not you that i'm worried about. I couldn't care less about the polls you make (although the idea that you're creating polls when it should be handled by mods/admins is another topic that I really don't feel like getting into). I only care about the troll b/c if they have the nerve to mess with an official mod poll, what makes you think they're going to refrain from messing up yours? Yes, I know you make a lot of polls out of enjoyment. That's all well and good, but I already pointed out where you went wrong beforehand in your analysis. I know you tried correcting it, and that's great, but if you're our "official poll person" shouldn't you have thought about that in the first place? This type of poll is on a different scale as far as consequences go, and you should've thought a little bit more carefully about sample size, duration of voting and all the other things I mentioned previously. I do have concerns. And I believe you already spoke to an admin about them so all of that is fine and squared away; however, in the future, it's probably best to leave official polls to mods/admins. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:12 AM Post #1096 |
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LOL did you even read what Frost wrote the other day? There was no suspicion to check ips on other polls; this was the first time she even checked them. What's weird is you keep coming back with thoughts, theories and accusations that have already been dismissed and explained away. I don't even know why you're still harping on about the issue at this point - Arti said she'd do what she could to assuage our fears of the problem. |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 07:17 AM Post #1097 |
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I don't really care if Frost didn't think there was no cause to be suspicious of the other polls. Her opinion is irrelevant to the fact that it cannot be discounted they could have been or not, so no I don't think this makes future polls any less reliable than the previous ones. If you disagree that's fine. I'm not harping on anything, if you quote a post of mine (that wasn't even in a conversation with you in the first place) I will reply just like you replied to my reply.
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:20 AM Post #1098 |
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Her opinion isn't irrelevant if she's the one who is analyzing the results... LOL it is a conversation with me if you're questioning moderators - which you do quite frequently. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:22 AM Post #1099 |
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Please refrain from being unnecessarily rude to Anons, especially when you don't understand what that Anon is saying. Her point was that if you have issues with this poll potentially being rigged, despite the fact that there is nothing to suggest that is the case, then that implies a subtler rigging. If this troll can rig an "innocuous issue" without our knowledge, she can similarly rig other ones without your knowledge - if you question the validity of my poll on that premise, you question the validity of all of your polls, as that premise necessitates it. Like I also said, if I can't tell, you can't tell, so no polls should be considered valid. Also, to your previous post directed at me... Why should you making them automatically ensure more protection than me? The person who made the poll is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the rigging, and since you already mentioned that the troll had the audacity to rig your poll (but not mine), Modship has very little to do with the end result of being rigged. In fact, judging from this, it's safer if I make it, since mine wasn't rigged (to my knowledge, and if you think it was, see my previous paragraph). I only made this one because an Admin specifically asked me to. Now, I'm attempting to do it to the best of my ability. You made a valid point in criticising my technique, I was tired and didn't consider it, but now it's rectified, and I will ensure that nothing like that happens again. In the future, I will know better as well, so this criticism is invalid, and irrelevant to bring up. |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 07:29 AM Post #1100 |
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I do believe, if I understood Arti's comment well, that in SurveyMonkey the default results tab shows the global results and that to analyze the votes further like seeing IP's and such its required to look into them individually and it's another tab. So if Frost didn't have her alleged poll rigging senses tingling then she probably didn't go thru all that trouble in any of the other polls, in fact that's basically what she said before that she didn't. As such there was no analysis done before making your point moot. So I do but in this case I'm mostly echoing shit other people have said first that I agree with so it's not like I came up with anything and just like other people express their opinions so do I. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:30 AM Post #1101 |
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Actually, it is. Whether Frost analyses the results or not, that doesn't change whether or not they were rigged. They're two separate variables. You're a scientist, and I'd say you're an intelligent girl - this should be obvious to you. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:35 AM Post #1102 |
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This Anon is not above rudeness to mods/admins, and i'm sure you're quite aware of who i'm speaking to at this point. And I understand exactly what the Anon was saying, I just disagree with it. If there was no suspicion beforehand, then there's no reason to even search through 170+ ips - which all happened to differ by about 1 number, iirc. There's really no other way to rig polls - especially online polls, and ones as unsophisticated as surverymonkey for that matter - other than using various proxies. LOL ours would "require more protection" because they're official and carry more weight than yours; the person making the poll isn't irrelevant, this is going towards the topic of "should non-mods/admins be able to make polls concerning official matters on the management of the thread?" and like I said, I don't feel like getting into that topic right now. Like I said to Anon - you said you'd do your best to assuage our fears, and I believe it. Honestly, I don't agree with Abc in that case. But you know why she did it - because you kept insisting that you were better than Frost and could do her job for her (and were being more rude with her than I am to this particular Anon who's the same Anon that happens to be the biggest proxy abuser - just like xyz said yesterday; the fact that she's even discussing a security problem having to do with proxies is ironic). And no, the criticism still stands, and I was bringing it up for reference as an explanation, not for using it as a means to discredit a future poll of yours; it's for the same exact one. I do believe you when you say you'll think better of it next time. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:41 AM Post #1103 |
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I know full well who that Anon is, even if Mods didn't consistently bring up that you know her whenever she comments, but two wrongs don't make a right. You're a position of authority, so you should be acting in a way that behooves that position, whether you feel it is or not. I understand that you don't feel the need to censor your opinions, and I both respect and fully agree with that, but when you're commenting in official capacity on official policy, as you are now, you should at least perform in a way that befits your position. My poll is also official, since it was sanctioned by Abc. Unless you want to invalidate her word, then you should treat my poll with all the respect that you'd treat a poll made by her, since it was her that commissioned it, and I'm acting as a representative of this forum's interests by conducting it as well as I am currently able. I acknowledged that I was rude to Frost, and I apologised for being inappropriate, since I could've handled that situation better than I did. She might've been acting out, but that doesn't mean I had to mimic her. All it did was reduce my credibility and make me look like a child, which, I suppose you can argue, I am, and was acting like. I'm not so arrogant as to consider myself above making mistakes in communicating with other people, and how I spoke to Frost was definitely a mistake. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:42 AM Post #1104 |
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LOL are you serious right now? That comment was in response to checking previous polls. They may be two separate variables, but they're definitely dependent upon one another; she's a mod, and has jurisdiction (as well as personal autonomy and intelligence for that matter to know when something is up) as to what constitutes suspicion based on the inherent fact that it's her job to take note of that. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:43 AM Post #1105 |
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Again, you miss the point. Whether or not she checked for rigging doesn't necessitate rigging being absent. It merely necessitates her being unaware of rigging. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:49 AM Post #1106 |
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I should be acting in a way that I see fit to mod - which is quite frankly none of your concern. And when someone consistently comes at you in a way that's disrespectful and rude, it's apparent that they have no intention of taking heed to your points. I'm not going to sugar coat my words for someone who clearly doesn't value them anyway. Agree to disagree, but you're not a mod and also not me - so don't tone police me. Please see above reasoning as to why Abc let you make that poll. I don't invalidate her word, I respect her opinion but I don't agree with this one; She told you to make that poll without getting everyone's consent and that was bad on her part. But I understand how she felt at that moment and don't fault her for that. |
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| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 07:53 AM Post #1107 |
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Alright this is getting us nowhere. Both polls are useless now. We will think of another way. |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 07:53 AM Post #1108 |
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Again, i'm aware of that. But again, you're making the assumption that there was reason to doubt previous polls before this. Like she said, they came in at a timely uniform manner like all others. Except this poll. Why this poll? What made 10 votes or so come in all at the same time when, statistically as shown from previous polls, it should trickle in over the course of several days? You see an anomaly, you investigate. That's how science works. You don't question the validity of things that have no reason to be questioned. So yeah, i'm kind of a scientist. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:54 AM Post #1109 |
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Then, also, you shouldn't "tone police" that Anon, either. She's expressing her opinion in a way I think is cogent, and she hasn't insulted you within this discussion. I think that deserves the same in return, but as you say, we differ in that regard. I'll be sure to behave in a way that vindicates Abc's choice. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:54 AM Post #1110 |
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What? Why? How have you decided this? Bad joke, Ihla. |
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| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 07:56 AM Post #1111 |
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Because this has turned into a pissing contest. We will not accept the results of either poll now. It's not a joke. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 07:58 AM Post #1112 |
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How does that invalidate the results of the poll? What about the Anons who voted? Are their opinions not counted, now? This has nothing to do with the poll. You can't dismiss the opinions of the users on this forum because I misbehaved, that's completely unfair to them. That's ridiculous. What do I have to do in order to make this poll count, then? |
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| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 08:00 AM Post #1113 |
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Like I said, we will think of another way, discuss it here with you all here as always. My first time pulling a Rei. Oh well. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 08:02 AM Post #1114 |
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What's the point in having a poll at all, if you can decide the results don't matter on a whim? Why are the opinions of these Anons suddenly irrelevant to you? They were collected in a legitimate way, nothing suggests this poll was rigged. You're wasting the time of Anons, and you're wasting my time, and you've wasted the time of everyone who got involved enough to discuss this. Not only that, but you're actively insulting them all. I repeat. Why have a poll if you can decide that you don't want to accept it just like that? Without the input of any of the users on this forum? To be quite frank, I preferred Rei. At least she was honest with her intentions. |
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| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 08:09 AM Post #1115 |
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Everyone's time got wasted, and I'm not just invalidation your poll, but ours as well, this doesn't mean that we will go and change everything inmediately, we will work on it together and you'll still get your chance to voice your opinion. Sadly for you, Rei is not an admin here, so go back to TLC if you prefer her. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 08:11 AM Post #1116 |
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Your poll was invalidated because it was rigged. Mine wasn't. You invalidated mine because you felt like it. What will it take for me to get you to accept the opinions of these Anons? Don't punish them because of me. |
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| Guest | Aug 4 2013, 08:14 AM Post #1117 |
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Wow, you are Joan of Arc'ing everything right now...this is like that movie with Mel Gibson shouting Freedom where he has his face painted. GDI what was the name of that movie?Yo Arti quit lambasting yourself yeah? None of your actions were wrong and even if they were it's no reason to invalidate the poll. I would say more but I can't.
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| Ihla | Aug 4 2013, 08:16 AM Post #1118 |
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I stopped this, or you all would go at it endlessly and no decision would be made at the end. |
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| Artichoke | Aug 4 2013, 08:18 AM Post #1119 |
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Everyone agreed that the result of this poll is the one we would go with. Orange said that. I said it. Abc said it. The people who have commented on this thread are okay with it. Nobody has complained about this specific poll being used to determine the results. I repeat. What do I need to do to make this poll valid in your eyes, since your opinion is the only one that needs changing? |
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| orangedaffodils | Aug 4 2013, 08:24 AM Post #1120 |
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And where did I say this? I never consented to the use of your poll - even after corrections. I simply pointed out what was flawed with it. You took the initiative to post it to the main thread right afterwards. |
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I'm not harping on anything, if you quote a post of mine (that wasn't even in a conversation with you in the first place) I will reply just like you replied to my reply.
GDI what was the name of that movie?

9:16 PM Jul 11