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Topic Started: May 11 2013, 08:53 PM (57,076 Views)
Ihla
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Abc also made that desicion without consulting us. If the other admins/mods think that your poll should be validated when they pagecatch, then I will not say anything else about the matter, but for now this is how it is.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Right.


Okay.



Right.



Wow.
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Ihla
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Bye.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
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Here are the results anyway. I wasted 26+ hours on that, the least you can do is let it exist.
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Ihla
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Duly noted. Don't remove the image.
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Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 08:31 AM
Here are the results anyway. I wasted 26+ hours on that, the least you can do is let it exist.
wasted 26 hours? but it only takes 1m! :rofl:
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Artichoke
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Aug 4 2013, 08:34 AM
wasted 26 hours? but it only takes 1m! :rofl:
By "that", I mean "the culmination of all the time I spent on that topic".
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Aug 4 2013, 08:34 AM
Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 08:31 AM
Here are the results anyway. I wasted 26+ hours on that, the least you can do is let it exist.
wasted 26 hours? but it only takes 1m! :rofl:
One minute to create, Arti has obviously kept close watch over the poll to ensure no mass votes came in or whatever Frost allegedly found suspicious before. Looking at the numbers, they look quite normal, reminds me of the split on the poll that made OD mod.
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ShipCaptain
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tl;dr
Oh, Gosh, all those pages wasted over something so trivial, for fuck's sake Artie, learn when to shut up!
Personally I voted against the 20 pages, because it will mean more pages to load when I'm on my phone where my connection is crappy and I deal with it by choosing "Don't load images" from the settings - it makes the pages load much faster.
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Just want to say that I really like the idea of having Editors, I'm looking forward to see how it's going to look like. Keep up the good work! :soo:
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zyx
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Well, I'm definitely glad this heated discussion is happening over something this unimportant. Was it something more important, we could be facing quite a crisis here.

I'm with Ihla on this. Although Abc is a much older friend of mine, she obviously acted out of frustration you two are so good at causing when saying Arti could do this poll. It never was going to work. Some of the reasons are:

1) Most normal 'apolitical' voters cast their votes when they saw the notice up there for the first time. They weren't even aware any re-voting was going on
2) Even if some of them knew, I can imagine quite a number of them not caring enough to get involved in these games
3) I'm sorry to say this, Arti, but you are not always showing best of your sides in this topic and your go at Frost yesterday was pretty low, I can imagine a number of people not wanting to cooperate with you, especially after being directly told that you can see their IPs
4) There is absolutely no guarantee that your poll is not rigged. The person who most likely did it last time is here, watching whole thing closely. She has more than enough intelligence to adjust her strategy once caught and provided exact reason why and how. It's not that difficult to cast few votes an hour or so.
5) The wording of the question you chose while gaining some neutrality lost it's sense. We were never picking a prettier number, it was a question of whether people were going to accept inconvenience of a change for the sake of faster loading times for people who sees the difference. If you randomly asked me 'hey,do you want amount of posts per page changed?' without proving a reason I'd say 'Why? No'.

It's a shame that votes of people who went a voted honestly in this one have to go to waste. But if we were to accept this poll as legit, it would do injustice to a lot more.

With this said, unfortunately I don't see how any following poll on this particular matter would be representative regardless of who creates it. Each round you go makes more people give up and stop caring. I'd say this issue should be dropped for now. Yes, in this case it just happens that 'no change' option benefits the side opposite of ours. Tough luck, huh? We just need to make sure that next one is impossible to turn into a joke this easily.

This is my personal opinion though, please don't take it as an official statement. That one would have to be done by Abc or Ihla.
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zyx
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As for technicalities, Arti, it's always nice when discussion is happening on the level of actual pros and cons as opposed to politics. You are absolutely right when you say that any repeated image on the page only loads once (as long as it has same url).

Basically browser doesn't think in terms of pages, it deals with files. When you refresh the page the html file (either static or dynamically created) gets loaded. It has the structure code and textual part of the site plus references to external resources (scripts, images, video, audio etc). If the browser does not find linked resource in its memory - it downloads it, once it's in the memory those links are just indicators of where this loaded resource needs to display. There may be performance issues if something is repeated too many times as rendering does take computing power but it's true that no extra traffic gets generated.

You are missing one important detail though. It's called 'cache' and your internet experience in general would be much slower if this thing didn't exsit. Cache is a memory that stores previously downloaded resources and it does not get destroyed on refresh. In fact it does not get destroyed even on site change. A lot of modern sites take good advantage of that. For example zetaboards uses a popular javascript library jQuery to make some of the things on this site work. Most of developers use the link to the file hosted on a popular server (google). This means you don't have to download it on a site if previous site has loaded this resource already. It's used for fonts and a lot of other things.

You can run an experiment. Open the forum with a theme that does have a banner, find the setting in your browser and clear your cache (or install a plugin that does it), then refresh a page couple of times. Since our banner image is fairly heavy, if your connection is not ultra fast you should notice the process of it loading, on the second refresh it would load really fast. That's if your computer / browser are fairly modern and no cache settings were adjusted. It may differ from browser to browser and device to device since they have different memory size and settings. Or you may have noticed how sometimes some image would not load properly and all you see is an X, you refresh the page and the X is still there while everything loaded fine. That's once again cache storing this broken version and thinking it doesn't need to be downloaded again. Once cache is cleared it would load just fine.

So no, just because you change the page it does not automatically mean that every image or gif will have to be loaded again. In fact you can load a gif from some other site and then meet it on forum page without really having to download it.

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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
^ I didn't know that, so fair enough, but then wouldn't people will smaller computers suffer from having a smaller amount of memory, or is the impact of that negligible?

Also;
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your go at Frost yesterday was pretty low
Yep, I agree. I repeat my apology and say that I was out of line. Like I said to Orange, just because she was snappy didn't mean I had to be. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Frost
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Stand by Mode.
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Aug 4 2013, 02:57 PM
Just want to say that I really like the idea of having Editors, I'm looking forward to see how it's going to look like. Keep up the good work! :soo:
Thanks ^_^
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zyx
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Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 07:13 PM
^ I didn't know that, so fair enough, but then wouldn't people will smaller computers suffer from having a smaller amount of memory, or is the impact of that negligible?
Most stationary computers and laptops are keeping from hundreds of megabytes to several gigabytes worth of cache. It's smaller on mobile devices due to shortage of storage but they should still be able to store quite a bunch of images, I just checked latest page from the Main on my phone and no, images did not reload on refresh. It's somewhat pointless to argue about it at this point anyway. Just thought I'd clarify how it works.
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Artichoke
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zyx
Aug 4 2013, 07:34 PM
Most stationary computers and laptops are keeping from hundreds of megabytes to several gigabytes worth of cache. It's smaller on mobile devices due to shortage of storage but they should still be able to store quite a bunch of images, I just checked latest page from the Main on my phone and no, images did not reload on refresh. It's somewhat pointless to argue about it at this point anyway. Just thought I'd clarify how it works.
Okay. I assume it's negligible from that, then. Thanks for answering.
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zyx
Aug 4 2013, 04:10 PM
5) The wording of the question you chose while gaining some neutrality lost it's sense. We were never picking a prettier number, it was a question of whether people were going to accept inconvenience of a change for the sake of faster loading times for people who sees the difference. If you randomly asked me 'hey,do you want amount of posts per page changed?' without proving a reason I'd say 'Why? No'.
I almost didn't say a thing for obvious reasons but no, Arti's question is the right one. Questions should always be neutral. If the mods would like to explain their reasoning here in the Forum Discussion thread then welcome! But to make a poll where the question itself makes one choice look better than the other without proof its even correct is not good. Because if people read a question that makes the change look like the "correct" choice then they will vote for it without even thinking. Discussions here about the merits of the change have shed light as to how the change of post per page doesn't change the behavior of the posters and in the end it could potentially make things worse. Images loading "faster" per page because now there is a smaller amount that can be posted is just a small consideration. The discussions belongs here and if the voters do their due diligence they would then vote with a clearer understanding of the potential far reaching consequences of the change. If voters didn't read the discussions because they didn't care enough to do so and will vote what they feel like then so be it, it's their prerogative to do as well. So the question should be neutral, neither choice should have their platform campaign right there in the question, that would be unfair and unethical. imho
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ShipCaptain
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since IG and twatter aws, as well as FB are considered OT in the main thread, while the chat thread is really fast moving and there are a great number of topics discussed there, making it hard to pagecatch, I was wondering if there are other people interested in discussing the aforementioned subjects separately from the main and chat thread?
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Artichoke
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ShipCaptain
Aug 4 2013, 09:44 PM
since IG and twatter aws, as well as FB are considered OT in the main thread, while the chat thread is really fast moving and there are a great number of topics discussed there, making it hard to pagecatch, I was wondering if there are other people interested in discussing the aforementioned subjects separately from the main and chat thread?
I think everyone concluded that would be a waste of time.
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ShipCaptain
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Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 09:48 PM
ShipCaptain
Aug 4 2013, 09:44 PM
since IG and twatter aws, as well as FB are considered OT in the main thread, while the chat thread is really fast moving and there are a great number of topics discussed there, making it hard to pagecatch, I was wondering if there are other people interested in discussing the aforementioned subjects separately from the main and chat thread?
I think everyone concluded that would be a waste of time.
sorry, I wasn't aware there was a unanimous conclusion
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Artichoke
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ShipCaptain
Aug 4 2013, 09:59 PM
sorry, I wasn't aware there was a unanimous conclusion
http://w11.zetaboards.com/sogayshidae/topic/8793521/24/
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ShipCaptain
Aug 4 2013, 09:44 PM
since IG and twatter aws, as well as FB are considered OT in the main thread, while the chat thread is really fast moving and there are a great number of topics discussed there, making it hard to pagecatch, I was wondering if there are other people interested in discussing the aforementioned subjects separately from the main and chat thread?
I was for this because I know most are done and DONE with the AW shit with some bitching about it ruining the OT thread as well (though everyone is happy for it to be gone from the main thread) but we got told that's what the OT chat thread is for.

But IDK we can argue that unlike the OT Chat thread which is like the meeting, chill, kind of crazy place to me our fellow users a thread for the AW news and discussion would be good because it separates an irrelevant topic most don't give a shit about. It would not mean more work for mods because that thread is bound to be dead most of the time as it would only come alive when one of the AW does something and some need to bitch about it.

What FBs though? Any private FBs (or any other SNS) alleged or real can't be discussed, especially of the girls. Unless you mean a public FB? :hmmm:

I get the point though that creating a thread for some topics that only a small group wants to talk about probably looks to be a major waste of time.

IDK depends on what shit bothers people most.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
^ tbh I worry about facilitating that kind of behaviour. If we create a place specifically for it, we create an environment where only people who're interested will visit, so it's kind of encouragement to keep digging deeper and deeper since nobody is telling them to stop creeping, and I'm not sure that's the best idea where privacy concerns are relevant.
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ShipCaptain
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Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 10:01 PM
ShipCaptain
Aug 4 2013, 09:59 PM
sorry, I wasn't aware there was a unanimous conclusion
http://w11.zetaboards.com/sogayshidae/topic/8793521/24/
Thanks for the link! I had no idea someone already suggested the same thing as this wasn't brought up on the main thread (as far as I know, may have missed it, though I pagecatch regularly)
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Abc
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The real cat lady.
Jesus, quite the mess. Hadn't had the time to visit the forum.

Alright, it was my fault and my mistake not to consult my fellow mods.
The ONLY reason I asked Artichoke to run the poll was merely out of frustration because I wanted to prove that US mods didn't have anything to hide, nor we wanted to favor a decision.
I asked Artichoke to do it because there were accusations against Frost, because she looked deeply into the poll and found out that there were a bunch of "blurry" users using proxies, therefore making the poll and therefore the results something not so clean. Ppl here accused Frost of looking into ips, etc. Which in my opinion was out of the question, since we mods, by no means care about ppl's ips, we care only when it is related to the forum.

I also made the mistake of not asking Artichoke to leave the poll up for more days, the results you mentioned involved only 36 voters, and that's nothing. Not even half of the members here.
My fault again.

Anyway, that said. I do think a decision made by only 36 can't count.

I made a huge mistake and I apologize to everyone that got harmed because of my decision.

Edit: Wait, now we have 66 voters?

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Artichoke
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^ We have 81. Ihla has the updated poll.
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Ihla
Aug 4 2013, 04:28 AM
Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 04:25 AM
Ihla
Aug 4 2013, 04:21 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think many people will take your poll seriously, Artichoke.
If the users of the forum don't take the poll seriously, that's their problem, and also represents their interests.
IMO they won't take it seriously simply because it was not made by the mods hence there won't be as many votes, then it the result wouldn't really count.
Fuck, you assholes sound self-important. The only reason you're a fucking mod in the first place is because your body is warm. It's not like we have absolutely no short-term memory. Why don't you make Arti a mod too? Might as well make everyone a mod. The more the merrier.

I wasn't going to butt in, but you're so full of shit it's spewing out of your ears. Can you spell dysfunction?
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Aug 12 2013, 06:35 AM
Ihla
Aug 4 2013, 04:28 AM
Artichoke
Aug 4 2013, 04:25 AM
Ihla
Aug 4 2013, 04:21 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think many people will take your poll seriously, Artichoke.
If the users of the forum don't take the poll seriously, that's their problem, and also represents their interests.
IMO they won't take it seriously simply because it was not made by the mods hence there won't be as many votes, then it the result wouldn't really count.
Fuck, you assholes sound self-important. The only reason you're a fucking mod in the first place is because your body is warm. It's not like we have absolutely no short-term memory. Why don't you make Arti a mod too? Might as well make everyone a mod. The more the merrier.

I wasn't going to butt in, but you're so full of shit it's spewing out of your ears. Can you spell dysfunction?
SA For the record, I don't even like Artichoke.
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Ihla
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Ihla
Aug 12 2013, 06:55 AM
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I'll just go back to just silently watching you fuck up. My suggestion that you make Arti a mod is serious. She can't do worse than any of you. We should make a poll or something, lol.
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Ihla
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I need insoles
Enjoy the rest of the Forum.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
That was... a unique experience.
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Artichoke
Aug 12 2013, 07:03 AM
That was... a unique experience.
You should think about it, the mod thing. It doesn't even matter that you're not gay because 90% of this forum isn't.
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Cool
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~excitaeng~
Thanks for the SGSD feed :run: i appreciate the effort
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Artichoke
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Aug 12 2013, 07:11 AM
You should think about it, the mod thing. It doesn't even matter that you're not gay because 90% of this forum isn't.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but if it did happen, there's no point. I'd disagree on a lot of principles the Mods seem to espouse, but I'd be the only one, so I'd be outvoted and outmanned. :P
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