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Topic Started: May 11 2013, 08:53 PM (57,072 Views)
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zyx
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Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 07:33 AM
I do see your side of things, but I don't agree with them. You can blame her for trolling and creating these situations, like I said, but that doesn't mean you had to act as you did, that's all on you. So, when she criticises your response, that doesn't mean that criticism of your response is suddenly invalid because she created the situation, because those two are separate.

I'm not saying it's not a shitty thing to do, because I sort of think that it is. I'm just saying that it being a shitty thing to do doesn't discredit what she's saying. If she had created the situation and, say, Rexie had commented saying the exact same thing as her, you'd respect that comment as legitimate. Why is that comment suddenly lacking that legitimacy? It's the same point.
Would you accept a lecture on being kind to animals from someone who just killed your kitten?
How enjoyable do you think is being constantly accused of lying in public by someone who does things I wrote about above?
How about being called out for being dictators and going Rei from someone who did what she did on lchat?

If Rexie criticised mods I'd take it as honest opinion. If more people did it, it would indicate a problem and I'd listen even more attentively. When it's one person creating traps and guiding mods there as a hobby, I can not take her opinions with same level of respect.

You are a smart girl and I'm sure you realize that it's impossible to cover every single thing that may happen on the forum with a rule. It's not even possible in that bigger real life. On this forum mods try to keep rules at minimum so you can feel freedom in expressing your opinions. Of course it means there are huge gaps everywhere and we all here fill them in using personal judgement. And it requires common agreement to live in peace with conditions like this. But it's not very secure. If one wants, they can ruin it pretty easily. Start spamming links, if they get deleted, demand all other links to be deleted. Because if you deleted first bunch you implied a rule for that exists. It's exaggerated obviously but I hope you get the idea. There are a lot of holes to abuse this way and this person enjoys finding them and facing mods with decisions they can't make without limiting freedom of users. They don't want to make such decisions. Believe it or not, most mods here believe in freedom quite a lot. She enjoys seeing them suffering.


Anon, we are not making fun of her. She's not funny at all. We hope people are aware what's going on and can arrive to their own conclusions whatever they are. You don't see it's just her when she plays more roles than one. If we don't tell you, how will you know what to think of it? We are not banning her because it's useless. She'd come back with another proxy indeed. Not banning her all this time allowed her to feel more secure and lazy. She's been using just 1 IP lately and putting pieces together was easier. Now once it's out of the bag she can hide better but keeping it in the bag for too long would mean you all would be defenseless. It was a tough choice to make.

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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
That's not the same thing at all, and you know it, so that analogy is pointless. She didn't kill anything, she made mistakes and didn't communicate forum politics properly so people misunderstood her and hysteria balled from there. Rei didn't solely cause the downfall of the forum, it had been coming for a while.

And tbh, she's not the only one who thinks you're behaving like dictators, so it's obviously not all in her mind. Blaming it all on her when I know she's not the only one who thinks that is irresponsible and misleading.

You say this about Mods struggling, but if Mods are suffering doing their job, then they should quit. They don't have an obligation to do what they're doing, so if it's getting too much for them, it's on their shoulders to stop doing it. You're trying to create sympathy for an unsympathetic situation. They had a responsibility to Mod properly, they accepted this burden to bear, so I expect them to bear it. If they feel like they don't want to or it's too much, step down, don't bitch about it. It's like cutting your legs off, refusing to have prosthetics and then complaining about having to use a wheelchair. You created this situation for yourself and you refuse to accept the remedy.
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zyx
Aug 14 2013, 08:04 AM
Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 07:33 AM
I do see your side of things, but I don't agree with them. You can blame her for trolling and creating these situations, like I said, but that doesn't mean you had to act as you did, that's all on you. So, when she criticises your response, that doesn't mean that criticism of your response is suddenly invalid because she created the situation, because those two are separate.

I'm not saying it's not a shitty thing to do, because I sort of think that it is. I'm just saying that it being a shitty thing to do doesn't discredit what she's saying. If she had created the situation and, say, Rexie had commented saying the exact same thing as her, you'd respect that comment as legitimate. Why is that comment suddenly lacking that legitimacy? It's the same point.
Would you accept a lecture on being kind to animals from someone who just killed your kitten?
How enjoyable do you think is being constantly accused of lying in public by someone who does things I wrote about above?
How about being called out for being dictators and going Rei from someone who did what she did on lchat?

If Rexie criticised mods I'd take it as honest opinion. If more people did it, it would indicate a problem and I'd listen even more attentively. When it's one person creating traps and guiding mods there as a hobby, I can not take her opinions with same level of respect.

You are a smart girl and I'm sure you realize that it's impossible to cover every single thing that may happen on the forum with a rule. It's not even possible in that bigger real life. On this forum mods try to keep rules at minimum so you can feel freedom in expressing your opinions. Of course it means there are huge gaps everywhere and we all here fill them in using personal judgement. And it requires common agreement to live in peace with conditions like this. But it's not very secure. If one wants, they can ruin it pretty easily. Start spamming links, if they get deleted, demand all other links to be deleted. Because if you deleted first bunch you implied a rule for that exists. It's exaggerated obviously but I hope you get the idea. There are a lot of holes to abuse this way and this person enjoys finding them and facing mods with decisions they can't make without limiting freedom of users. They don't want to make such decisions. Believe it or not, most mods here believe in freedom quite a lot. She enjoys seeing them suffering.


Anon, we are not making fun of her. She's not funny at all. We hope people are aware what's going on and can arrive to their own conclusions whatever they are. You don't see it's just her when she plays more roles than one. If we don't tell you, how will you know what to think of it? We are not banning her because it's useless. She'd come back with another proxy indeed. Not banning her all this time allowed her to feel more secure and lazy. She's been using just 1 IP lately and putting pieces together was easier. Now once it's out of the bag she can hide better but keeping it in the bag for too long would mean you all would be defenseless. It was a tough choice to make.

Ya'll decided to keep her around and be catty and passive-aggressive to her, instead. I'm gonna go now, but thanks for the laugh. I'm not even trying to be an asshole right now. That actually made me laugh a little. That one's probably a 50%.
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Rei didn't solely cause the downfall of the forum, it had been coming for a while.


Actually, it was fine before Windmill went crazy. So yeah, if that qualifies as a while.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Anon
Aug 14 2013, 08:19 AM
Actually, it was fine before Windmill went crazy. So yeah, if that qualifies as a while.
I mean, in terms of forum politics. From what I've seen, there had been a lot of BTS stuff involving the general forum Admin that most users weren't aware of. Rei most certainly handled it and the ensuing reaction badly, and in that, she was also a factor. :P
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zyx
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Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 08:13 AM
That's not the same thing at all, and you know it, so that analogy is pointless. She didn't kill anything, she made mistakes and didn't communicate forum politics properly so people misunderstood her and hysteria balled from there. Rei didn't solely cause the downfall of the forum, it had been coming for a while.
You'll be surprised probably but I agree. I don't blame Rei for killing lchat alone. It's been coming for ages, mods faced pressure from both users and administration and Rei just happened to be the catalyst that killed it off. It doesn't change the fact that she went to push rules almost blindly, she behaved aggressively when users tried to talk sense into her, she keeps insisting on all kinds of limitations even here and she herself uses 'going Rei' as synonym for dictatorship. She's still the last person to lecture mods on democracy.

I honestly don't see how what's going on on this forum can be called dictatorship. We have more freedom than majority of forums I've ever been to. But if a lot of people feel this way, they should come here and express their opinions. So far it's been 3 people, including you, Rei and the other anon, out of thousands. Don't you think it's a bit unfair to call us unfair for not seeing something that's not really there?

There are no mods in this discussion so you should probably stop putting my words into their mouths. They aren't asking for your pity. I, as a 3rd party, am allowed to feel bad for people being treated unfairly as I'm free to feel they are being treated that way. You do feel sympathy for Wind's and Rei's situation, don't you? I actually do as well. I've been a mod/admin on various resources many times and it was never easy neither to stay, nor to quit. There is a huge burden of responsibility that comes with the title. You telling current mods to leave so easily only shows how few you know about what actually being there is like.

I had plenty of experience of going in circles with you before and I don't think I'm ready for another of those now. Let's prove me wrong and stop it for now.
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That's not the same thing at all, you know it, so that analogy is pointless. Mods didn't cut their legs off D:

Artichoke, dear beloved Einstein/Confucius hybrid wannabe. You sound pretentious as fuck, try to get a better internet personality then maybe you can get the backing from others to be a mod. I'm far from liking any of the mods that is not ninja, but choosing the lesser of two evils is never this easy with you in it.

P.S. There's no evil, the analogy is pointless.

tl;dr Artichoke hurt of the butt not being a mod or editor




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Frost
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zyx
Aug 14 2013, 09:01 AM
Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 08:13 AM
That's not the same thing at all, and you know it, so that analogy is pointless. She didn't kill anything, she made mistakes and didn't communicate forum politics properly so people misunderstood her and hysteria balled from there. Rei didn't solely cause the downfall of the forum, it had been coming for a while.
You'd be surprised probably but I agree. I don't blame Rei for killing lchat alone. It's been coming for ages, mods faced pressure from both users and administration and Rei just happened to be the catalyst that killed it off. It doesn't change the fact that she went to push rules almost blindly, she behaved aggressively when users tried to talk sense in her, she keeps insisting on all kinds of limitations even here and she herself uses 'going Rei' as synonym for dictatorship. She's still the last person here to lecture mods on democracy.

I honestly don't see how what's going on on this forum can be called dictatorship. We have more freedoms than majority of forums I've ever been to. But if a lot of people feel this way, they should come here and express their opinions. So far it's been 3 people, including you, Rei and the other anon, out of thousands. Don't you think it's a bit unfair to call us unfair for not seeing something that's not really here?

There are no mods in this discussion so you should probably stop putting my words into their mouths. They aren't asking for your pity. I, as a 3rd party, am allowed to feel bad for people being treated unfairly as I'm free to feel they are being treated that way. You do feel sympathy for Wind's and Rei's situation, don't you? I actually do as well. I've been a mod/admin on various resources many times and it was never easy neither to stay, nor to quit. There is a huge burden of responsibility that comes with the title. You telling current mods to leave so easily only shows how few you know about what actually being there is like.

I had plenty of experience of going in circles with you before and I don't think I'm ready for another of those now. Let's prove me wrong and stop it for now.
She still does it, here.
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Yuwree
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Why is there so much shit against the mods here? They're not overstepping their powers, they're not deleting whole threads on mass comments that shouldn't be deleted. What is the problem?

Also I'm really liking the Feed guys,
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 08:13 AM
You say this about Mods struggling, but if Mods are suffering doing their job, then they should quit. They don't have an obligation to do what they're doing, so if it's getting too much for them, it's on their shoulders to stop doing it. You're trying to create sympathy for an unsympathetic situation. They had a responsibility to Mod properly, they accepted this burden to bear, so I expect them to bear it. If they feel like they don't want to or it's too much, step down, don't bitch about it. It's like cutting your legs off, refusing to have prosthetics and then complaining about having to use a wheelchair. You created this situation for yourself and you refuse to accept the remedy.
None of the mods are "suffering" doing their job - we're all frustrated because we are constantly having to deal with one person who seems to take amusement in making our work difficult. Doesn't mean we hate it so much we want to quit, it's like any other frustrating customer who frequents an establishment. Although, unlike a real job, we're not bound by a paycheck - none of us are really obligated to stand for her shit, and rightfully so.

And you thought xyz's analogy was pointless? Yours is so far off the mark it's not even funny. In fact, it's a bit disrespectful.

While I appreciate your opinions, like always, as to how a mod should act, this is again out of your area of expertise. You may feel as if mods/admins should be impassive, but unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way - doesn't make your idea any more or less right, however; I will mod as I see fit (and I think I have enough intelligence to make the call for myself, thank you) and that is not with an impassive approach.
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Abc
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Yuwree
Aug 14 2013, 03:49 PM
Also I'm really liking the Feed guys,
I'm glad you enjoy it, it took great effort and coordination from all the members involved. I also think it looks pretty neat! :D
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Aug 14 2013, 11:19 AM
That's not the same thing at all, you know it, so that analogy is pointless. Mods didn't cut their legs off D:

Artichoke, dear beloved Einstein/Confucius hybrid wannabe. You sound pretentious as fuck, try to get a better internet personality then maybe you can get the backing from others to be a mod. I'm far from liking any of the mods that is not ninja, but choosing the lesser of two evils is never this easy with you in it.

P.S. There's no evil, the analogy is pointless.

tl;dr Artichoke hurt of the butt not being a mod or editor




I thought she chose not to be an editor, which, as much as she is unfit to be a mod, she would probably be alright as an editor. And maybe having an important job in the forum would calm her tits a bit.

AND all the cakes in the world for the Editors! Great job, girls.

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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Well, clearly you all have your opinions, and that's the end of this. I try not to debate where it's obvious the other party isn't open to changing their mind if appropriate, so there's no point in continuing this debacle.
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Frost
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Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 09:34 PM
Well, clearly you all have your opinions, and that's the end of this. I try not to debate where it's obvious the other party isn't open to changing their mind if appropriate, so there's no point in continuing this debacle.
We have the same thought.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Frost
Aug 14 2013, 10:01 PM
We have the same thought.
Glad you chose to add that.
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Abc
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The real cat lady.
Artichoke
Aug 14 2013, 09:34 PM
Well, clearly you all have your opinions, and that's the end of this. I try not to debate where it's obvious the other party isn't open to changing their mind if appropriate, so there's no point in continuing this debacle.
Wow, Artichoke.
You of all people talking about an open mind.
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Artichoke
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Abc
Aug 15 2013, 01:58 AM
Wow, Artichoke.
You of all people talking about an open mind.
I've always admitted when I've been in the wrong, especially where it regards my behaviour. You only need to pagecatch this thread to know that - I've apologised for my childishness with the theme, I've apologised for my shortness with Frost, I've admitted I handled the poll wrongly the first time around and amended what you pointed out as my errors. In other threads, I've apologised where I felt I've been unnecessarily rude to people, and I try to improve those things so that my apologies don't ring hollow.

In regards to my views, I've done the same - on the main thread, I've admitted that I was wrong to say that Jessica was being rude, because Korean culture is different than my own. I've admitted error when Babycakes provided me reasons as to why I was wrong, and I admitted it as soon as I saw it. I'm always open to criticism of my views so that I might see something that proves me wrong. I don't see anything negative in admitting where I've erred, since only by doing that can I finally do the right thing, so being wrong is just a natural progression to being right.

You sit there, and you tell me I have a closed mind, but you have nothing that suggests this but your own bias and prejudice. If you want to sling accusations against me as a person, at least make sure they're accurate. I'm stubborn, I can be childish, I can be rude and dismissive, I can be condescending, I can come off as arrogant, I'm hardly the best at empathising with people and I struggle to understand what's expected of me in certain circumstances, and I expect of others what I expect of myself, which can lead to hypocrisy when I'm unable to meet those standards that I set. I can be prone to tantrums when pushed out of what I'm familiar with and I'm easily frustrated, which leads to me being difficult to deal with at times, and I'm quite argumentative regarding subjects I have strong opinions on.

I am all of those things, and probably more that I'm unaware of, but I'm not closed-minded.
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Abc
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The real cat lady.
Artichoke
Aug 15 2013, 02:11 AM
Abc
Aug 15 2013, 01:58 AM
Wow, Artichoke.
You of all people talking about an open mind.
I've always admitted when I've been in the wrong, especially where it regards my behaviour. You only need to pagecatch this thread to know that - I've apologised for my childishness with the theme, I've apologised for my shortness with Frost, I've admitted I handled the poll wrongly the first time around and amended what you pointed out as my errors. In other threads, I've apologised where I felt I've been unnecessarily rude to people, and I try to improve those things so that my apologies don't ring hollow.

In regards to my views, I've done the same - on the main thread, I've admitted that I was wrong to say that Jessica was being rude, because Korean culture is different than my own. I've admitted error when Babycakes provided me reasons as to why I was wrong, and I admitted it as soon as I saw it. I'm always open to criticism of my views so that I might see something that proves me wrong. I don't see anything negative in admitting where I've erred, since only by doing that can I finally do the right thing, so being wrong is just a natural progression to being right.

You sit there, and you tell me I have a closed mind, but you have nothing that suggests this but your own bias and prejudice. If you want to sling accusations against me as a person, at least make sure they're accurate. I'm stubborn, I can be childish, I can be rude and dismissive, I can be condescending, I can come off as arrogant, I'm hardly the best at empathising with people and I struggle to understand what's expected of me in certain circumstances, and I expect of others what I expect of myself, which can lead to hypocrisy when I'm unable to meet those standards that I set. I can be prone to tantrums when pushed out of what I'm familiar with and I'm easily frustrated, which leads to me being difficult to deal with at times, and I'm quite argumentative regarding subjects I have strong opinions on.

I am all of those things, and probably more that I'm unaware of, but I'm not closed-minded.
Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.
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zyx
Aug 14 2013, 02:49 AM
Anon
Aug 13 2013, 03:11 PM
... there is such a thing called "checks and balances" dear. "Little shits" like this anon are the ones that keep those in power in check because if they aren't they will run everything to the ground.
Calling someone 'little shit' for having a different opinion is not something to applause for indeed. But then this anon and the one she was talking to were speaking same language, so there's hardly a reason to complain.

I'm more interested in logic that makes you come here and declare war on mods on pretty much daily basis. 'Checks and balances'?
I didn't complain, just gave some thoughts to that anon.

I'm more interested in what made you quote my post and write a bunch of stuff. Wait, no I'm not interested at all actually and I didn't read most of it or any of these posts, I don't know what problem is right now but it ain't my battle so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Frost
Aug 13 2013, 07:25 PM
Anon
Aug 13 2013, 03:11 PM
Anon
Aug 13 2013, 06:32 AM
Anon
Aug 13 2013, 06:18 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepBut that's not gonna happen because somebody will surely step up to be mod.
Twice the admins asked everyone on the forum if anyone is willing to help out by becoming a moderator and no more than 4 people actually applied for the job(GG, Arti, Frost and Orangedaffodils). Less people want to be mods than you think.... And no wonder with shits like you criticizing their every move. -_-

Da I have no clear idea WTF happened in this thread as I skipped about 75% of the new posts BUT there is such a thing called "checks and balances" dear. "Little shits" like this anon are the ones that keep those in power in check because if they aren't they will run everything to the ground. So even if you don't agree with what they are saying or how, at least accept their right to do so and how good or bad such posts have a purpose to fill.

Arti as mod is 50/50 for me but I don't think it would be fair to her considering her latest clashes with the current PTB. Yeah she might have been a little childish at times but unlike others she recognizes this and strives to be better, which is a whole lot better than those who pretend their actions weren't childish as well and strive for nothing.


By the way there's a penis above my post, a dangling penis is not a nice view. =_= Why can't these fuckers ever troll with boobs or vjjs? :nails:
Who are you talking about?
In general speaking.

But whoever thinks their shoe fits can wear the shoe I don't give a fuck totally like whatever pepper.
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nam fuit ante Helenam cunnus taeterrima belli causa
Abc
Aug 15 2013, 02:16 AM
Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.
:-/
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Artichoke
Aug 15 2013, 02:38 AM
Abc
Aug 15 2013, 02:16 AM
Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.
:-/


 :grouphug:


[marq=right] :run: [/marq]
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Abc
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The real cat lady.
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Aug 15 2013, 03:42 AM


 :grouphug:


[marq=right] :run: [/marq]
That was actually amusing to watch lol
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Aug 14 2013, 11:19 AM
That's not the same thing at all, you know it, so that analogy is pointless. Mods didn't cut their legs off D:

Artichoke, dear beloved Einstein/Confucius hybrid wannabe. You sound pretentious as fuck, try to get a better internet personality then maybe you can get the backing from others to be a mod. I'm far from liking any of the mods that is not ninja, but choosing the lesser of two evils is never this easy with you in it.

P.S. There's no evil, the analogy is pointless.

tl;dr Artichoke hurt of the butt not being a mod or editor




mte :rofl:

:sissies:
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i suggested a +1 -1 system and some people think there may be too many downvotes

then someone suggested how about only upvotes and i think that could be a good idea if you don't want to include downvotes.
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orangedaffodils
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Let ε <0
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Aug 18 2013, 11:32 PM
i suggested a +1 -1 system and some people think there may be too many downvotes

then someone suggested how about only upvotes and i think that could be a good idea if you don't want to include downvotes.
upvotes only is a good idea, I think. Downvotes might prompt vindictive users to downvote out of spite.

I think it's more of a technical issue though, so let's wait for xyz to chime in about that possibility ^_^
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GuaranaGirl
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Key of Jail.
I just wanted you guys to know how grateful I am for the pagecatching thread :) I hope it lasts. thank you editors and mods :hug:
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Yuwree
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It's fairly safe to assume that despite our best efforts, this forum is really starting to become known right? =/

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Ihla
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I need insoles
I have no objection to making one if everyone else is okay with it.
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^^ how did you come to this conclusion?
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Ihla
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I need insoles
Guest
Aug 21 2013, 05:28 AM
^^ how did you come to this conclusion?
It's been pretty obvious IMO, epsecially for users who have came her from TLC. Some users saying that they're newbs here, some don't know what SA or DA mean (or any of our old guidelines for that matter) they don't care about editing names, increase of discussion of male bands and such and like Yuwree said, some people link this forum on Dumblr, Tweeter and such.
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Macro Anon
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Seohyun's wife
Ihla
Aug 21 2013, 05:45 AM
Anon
Aug 21 2013, 05:28 AM
^^ how did you come to this conclusion?
It's been pretty obvious IMO, epsecially for users who have came her from TLC. Some users saying that they're newbs here, some don't know what SA or DA mean (or any of our old guidelines for that matter) they don't care about editing names, increase of discussion of male bands and such and like Yuwree said, some people link this forum on Dumblr, Tweeter and such.
is there a way to send the message that we don't want to be linked?
I understand we got new people, we can't stop them but maybe outing them? like some people did with those twitter aw
or idk edit the banner an add something that express our wish to not be linked.
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Macro Anon
Aug 21 2013, 05:52 AM
Ihla
Aug 21 2013, 05:45 AM
Anon
Aug 21 2013, 05:28 AM
^^ how did you come to this conclusion?
It's been pretty obvious IMO, epsecially for users who have came her from TLC. Some users saying that they're newbs here, some don't know what SA or DA mean (or any of our old guidelines for that matter) they don't care about editing names, increase of discussion of male bands and such and like Yuwree said, some people link this forum on Dumblr, Tweeter and such.
is there a way to send the message that we don't want to be linked?
I understand we got new people, we can't stop them but maybe outing them? like some people did with those twitter aw
or idk edit the banner an add something that express our wish to not be linked.
SGSD: Where we keep it gay and in the closet, don't link us bitch.

And it's obvious we got a boat load of newer newbies the past 2 weeks, I would bet we got linked again. :ermm:
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Cool
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~excitaeng~
yeah, even if this place hasn't been directly linked, i noticed some on twatter refer to here as sgsd, then by go0gling sgsd, the archive here comes up on the first page :-/
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