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Topic Started: May 11 2013, 08:53 PM (57,057 Views)
orangedaffodils
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Sep 5 2013, 06:52 AM
Deductive reasoning skills. I mean, if you say you're so good at being cohesive with each other (and you're all diverse people), why can't you be cohesive with this unknown variable (who is also somebody diverse with his/her own opinions)? It seems like, you're logically contradicting yourself.
Never said we couldn't though, so i'm not sure where you're getting that from.

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How did you arrive at that conclusion from what I said?

Actual deductive reasoning.
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orangedaffodils
Sep 5 2013, 06:59 AM
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Sep 5 2013, 06:52 AM
Deductive reasoning skills. I mean, if you say you're so good at being cohesive with each other (and you're all diverse people), why can't you be cohesive with this unknown variable (who is also somebody diverse with his/her own opinions)? It seems like, you're logically contradicting yourself.
Never said we couldn't though, so i'm not sure where you're getting that from.

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How did you arrive at that conclusion from what I said?

Actual deductive reasoning.
Did you even read what Zyx wrote?
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orangedaffodils
Sep 5 2013, 06:57 AM
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Sep 5 2013, 06:43 AM
Oh god. Repeat after me: "I don't need help."
Omg, you must be daft if you think that 1 admin would be able to handle this forum on her own - technical/logistical problems, massive troll invasions, wank and not to mention the fact that all of these things can be occurring simultaneously as well as at a time difficult for you to stay awake...it's damn well near impossible to handle all on your own; In practicality, you need a few other mods/admins to bounce ideas off of one another when it comes to these major areas of management.

@Ihla: I know, you think this would be as obvious as the grass is green, but I guess not.
What is wrong with you today? There isn't 1 of you right now. There are at least three, although I don't really know because I stopped counting.

She said "We still need help". I said, "No, you don't (because there are at least three of you)"
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orangedaffodils
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Sep 5 2013, 07:12 AM
What is wrong with you today? There isn't 1 of you right now. There are at least three, although I don't really know because I stopped counting.

She said "We still need help". I said, "No, you don't (because there are at least three of you)"
Nothing's wrong with me, i'm just confused about your responses because they're not making sense.

You told her to say, "I don't need help" which in turn seemed to mean, "I can do this on my own". And yes, there are three. Congrats, you can count. As for needing more help, i'd say we do. Again, it's your personal opinion.

As for what xyz said, yes I did. And nowhere did she mention that we can't get along with others.

xyz
 
It's still amusing to me how some of you want mods to hate each other. It would not only make it more difficult for the mods, it would make things messy for everyone here. In such situation mods would either each do their own thing and you'll never know which one you'll get to deal with your situation and what to expect, or they would end up doing nothing because disability to agree on anything would paralyze them. To function properly staff team needs at least basic ability to cooperate and reasonable amount of respect and trust for each other.

I think you're attempting to scrutinize the bolded, so let me clarify for you because it seems you're still missing the point: mods hating each other =/= inability to work with someone we didn't initially get along with. Because the simple fact is that if we didn't get along with someone before they became a mod, we would have to now if we want to get anything done. Which brings me back to the cohesiveness point.
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Yuwree
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Does the forum need janitors perhaps? People who can only delete or make posts 'invisible' pending for mods to make a verdict on them at a later date?

Or doesn't zetaboards have that option?
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Ihla
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We have an option that can make it so that the registered's posts need to get approved by a mod. We wouldn't want to enforce that even if we could apply it to anons as well though, as odious as it gets sometimes.

So far we've (more like I) had to rely on it once, under fishy circumstances.
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so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
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Ihla
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Sep 5 2013, 09:35 AM
so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
Sorry anon, we did bring up the subject, but nothing conclusive yet.
:sorry:
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Frost
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Sep 5 2013, 04:21 AM
Frost
Sep 4 2013, 11:15 AM
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Sep 4 2013, 09:50 AM
Frost
Sep 4 2013, 09:47 AM

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Again and again. You're not even listening. I asked you what public ridicule accomplishes here. It accomplishes nothing besides feeding your little egos. It makes you look like little kids.
Public ridicule? We said she was Rei, that's it. We asked her to stop when she was doing something trollish and that's pretty much it.
You're going to deny that what occurred was ridicule, now? Do you need me to actually go dig up the shit that you people have said about her (and all this without knowing for sure that she's actually who you think she is)?
Do whatever you want.
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zyx
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Sep 5 2013, 04:15 AM
"or they would end up doing nothing because disability to agree on anything would paralyze them."

You mean the possibility that your camp will encounter more difficulties trying to achieve what you're trying to achieve because the other camp also wants what's good for the forum but decides to achieve that with a different approach than yours, which you disagree with. It sounds like the only problem is you want to do what you want to do and you can't imagine compromising with people who don't want to do what you want to do. And in any case, the issues you disagree with can be voted on, so every quagmire you will encounter is only temporary.
Mod A says: We do this
Mod B says: We do that


What happens? I see two variants:

1) Each of them goes and makes their own thing = mess.
2) They try to convince each other, find middle ground and then act on what they agreed on.

Situation 2 is what's happening right now, so I'm not sure what kind of alternative you want.

I saw you mentioned possible voting in following posts but it's simply not in option in a lot of situations that contain private info. There are also dozens of smaller decisions to be made every day that would be highly impractical to vote on. They involve routine and measures that should be taken or not within existing system. Every major change ends up in Forum Discussions. You don't need more mods to ignite those discussions. You have that kind of power yourself as a regular user here.

You are somehow convinced that all current mods are alike. I personally disagree with most of them all the time. In fact the mod I personally agreed with the most was Frost and she's gone now. I had major argument with Abc who have been a friend of mine long before SNSD even existed. We barely talked for a while because of it. I see other girls disagreeing with each other all the time. Situations where someone says 'lets do it' and everyone goes 'ok' are about as rare as 'never'. All decisions take a while and sometimes it feels like people in the mod room are too different to make things happen. What is there though is human sympathy and mutual respect that helps everyone to be patient and listen to each other. That's why things happen.

Whenever new mod is picked, you hope it's someone you know to be adequate. It's only natural for mods to feel the same way, especially with this extra weight of responsibility they carry. It's not only a matter of comfort but security too. It's nice to know someone won't have an anger fit and turn destructive. I'm sure that when Frost and Orange were chosen Ihla and Abc felt relieved. Not because they expected agreement on everything (if you knew these people better, you wouldn't expect that) but simply because they knew they could count of these girls' adequacy. Still being glad something happened and making that thing happen are two different things. Mods could have a natural preference but it doesn't mean they'd be willing to pay a price of going dictators to achieve just that. Do they even have to? If majority of this forum shows trust and support for a candidate, chances are current mods will feel similar way too. Once this new person is in, she'd see more reasoning behind things mods do, face some difficult choices they have to make, get to understand and relate to them more, learn to find common language. You'd be effectively back to Situation 2, unless this new person's only goal is trouble.

You are trying to make it look like current mods are being clique-y and not letting alternative thinking mods on the team. But where are the ones trying to get in? So far Arti has been the only one to volunteer and she simply didn't have majority vote behind her. Do you expect current mods to go out, find someone who hates them and put her on the team against majority's will? Now if they do it I hope they all resign because it would be an obvious fail of sanity test or intentional sabotage of this forum.

And by the way, you are not any more important than any of the mods here. Yes it's true that they are here to serve the interests of this forum's users. The opinion of majority will always be a deciding factor here. You personally are not majority though and each of these mods is this forum's user just like you. They do not have any less rights or value than you. They do not owe you anything personally neither they are to be looked down upon. This is one of very rare forums where discussions like the ones happening here are allowed, so you are always welcome with you opinions, including negative / critical ones. But consider giving your attitude another look.

This is my last reply to you on the issue, at least for today. We all really want to be understood by users here and we try to explain and clarify things as much as we can, but you are here to feed your ego before anything else and going in circles with you is becoming quite a waste.
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zyx
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Sep 5 2013, 09:35 AM
so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
If you mean facebook-like system it could be done but it would be something only registered users can use, so I'm not sure it would be representative on forum like ours.
Making it available for anons would go against the way the forum typically works, and even if we do achieve such possibility, there will be a lot of space for abuse, which will once again render it somewhat useless.

I kind of miss the times messages like x2 were not this popular.
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zyx
Sep 5 2013, 03:05 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 09:35 AM
so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
If you mean facebook-like system it could be done but it would be something only registered users can use, so I'm not sure it would be representative on forum like ours.
Making it available for anons would go against the way the forum typically works, and even if we do achieve such possibility, there will be a lot of space for abuse, which will once again render it somewhat useless.

I kind of miss the times messages like x2 were not this popular.
da THIS. I don't get the point of x2-xN if they aren't saying anything else, fucking waste of post space if you ask me. About the same value a post containing some random emoticon so like 0. Is it so hard to say WHY you are x2 aka agreeing with the post? People being that fucking lazy kind of bothers me because its a forum not a chat room. Reason why I was all for the anons up vote suggestion.


But I don't get the comment of space for abuse? I would imagine the system would limit the upvote to one per person (or IP?). And unless upvoting will change something in the post like making it more noticeable one wonders if anyone would bother. How exactly would the possible abuse take form?

I think this idea is very valid and if we can get rid of all the x2-xN, we'll be better for it. I'd rather read people's opinions even if they are completely retarded.

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zyx
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Sep 5 2013, 03:53 PM
But I don't get the comment of space for abuse? I would imagine the system would limit the upvote to one per person (or IP?). And unless upvoting will change something in the post like making it more noticeable one wonders if anyone would bother. How exactly would the possible abuse take form?
Letting anons upvote posts would mean that I could make an ugly comment, use a bunch of proxies to give it a significant number of upvotes and claim that there is quite a bunch of people thinking that way. We could start a wank or two over it.

I could also go and twist the overall balance of upvotes in any way I please. For example there could be a post with 5 legit upvotes that would look like a popular opinion compared to posts with 0-2 upvotes. But if I go and make sure that other opinions around have 10 upvotes or more, it would look like an average opinion at best. You could say that a reasonably smart person would not take those votes seriously, but I've seen tests showing that people do get affected by numbers like this. You could have a person or two shaping out public opinion to look like they prefer it to look.

It would be a bit useless at best and dangerous at worst and there is no existing solution that allows anons to vote that I know of. It means I'd have to invest many hours in making something that doesn't seem very useful. I maybe mistaken though, so feel free to correct me if I'm missing something.

We can always voice out our concerns and ask people to respect each other a bit more here but then this problem is much bigger than this particular forum. Maybe we'll just have to accept that the world has changed.
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Sep 5 2013, 03:53 PM
zyx
Sep 5 2013, 03:05 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 09:35 AM
so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
If you mean facebook-like system it could be done but it would be something only registered users can use, so I'm not sure it would be representative on forum like ours.
Making it available for anons would go against the way the forum typically works, and even if we do achieve such possibility, there will be a lot of space for abuse, which will once again render it somewhat useless.

I kind of miss the times messages like x2 were not this popular.
da THIS. I don't get the point of x2-xN if they aren't saying anything else, fucking waste of post space if you ask me. About the same value a post containing some random emoticon so like 0. Is it so hard to say WHY you are x2 aka agreeing with the post? People being that fucking lazy kind of bothers me because its a forum not a chat room. Reason why I was all for the anons up vote suggestion.


But I don't get the comment of space for abuse? I would imagine the system would limit the upvote to one per person (or IP?). And unless upvoting will change something in the post like making it more noticeable one wonders if anyone would bother. How exactly would the possible abuse take form?

I think this idea is very valid and if we can get rid of all the x2-xN, we'll be better for it. I'd rather read people's opinions even if they are completely retarded.

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Da lol You sound so angry all the time.
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Sep 5 2013, 07:26 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 03:53 PM
zyx
Sep 5 2013, 03:05 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 09:35 AM
so is there any update on the upvote suggestion?
If you mean facebook-like system it could be done but it would be something only registered users can use, so I'm not sure it would be representative on forum like ours.
Making it available for anons would go against the way the forum typically works, and even if we do achieve such possibility, there will be a lot of space for abuse, which will once again render it somewhat useless.

I kind of miss the times messages like x2 were not this popular.
da THIS. I don't get the point of x2-xN if they aren't saying anything else, fucking waste of post space if you ask me. About the same value a post containing some random emoticon so like 0. Is it so hard to say WHY you are x2 aka agreeing with the post? People being that fucking lazy kind of bothers me because its a forum not a chat room. Reason why I was all for the anons up vote suggestion.


But I don't get the comment of space for abuse? I would imagine the system would limit the upvote to one per person (or IP?). And unless upvoting will change something in the post like making it more noticeable one wonders if anyone would bother. How exactly would the possible abuse take form?

I think this idea is very valid and if we can get rid of all the x2-xN, we'll be better for it. I'd rather read people's opinions even if they are completely retarded.

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Da lol You sound so angry all the time.
dda x2
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i think the forum needs to have upvotes if you want to get rid of x23456789
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Sep 5 2013, 07:53 PM
i think the forum needs to have upvotes if you want to get rid of x23456789
They would probably still do it anyway.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:10 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 07:53 PM
i think the forum needs to have upvotes if you want to get rid of x23456789
They would probably still do it anyway.
or we could make it rule that it's not allowed anymore because we have upvotes
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Sep 5 2013, 08:24 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:10 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 07:53 PM
i think the forum needs to have upvotes if you want to get rid of x23456789
They would probably still do it anyway.
or we could make it rule that it's not allowed anymore because we have upvotes
lol You can't just make rules like that, it would be another source of wank. Just drop this upvote thing, its completely unnecessary anyway.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:32 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:24 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:10 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 07:53 PM
i think the forum needs to have upvotes if you want to get rid of x23456789
They would probably still do it anyway.
or we could make it rule that it's not allowed anymore because we have upvotes
lol You can't just make rules like that, it would be another source of wank. Just drop this upvote thing, its completely unnecessary anyway.
it's not hard to implement a new rule if there's going to be another service provided lol you're being a little irrational right now
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The point of this place was not having many rules anyway.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:32 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:24 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:10 PM

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or we could make it rule that it's not allowed anymore because we have upvotes
lol You can't just make rules like that, it would be another source of wank. Just drop this upvote thing, its completely unnecessary anyway.
it's not hard to implement a new rule if there's going to be another service provided lol you're being a little irrational right now
Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:40 PM
The point of this place was not having many rules anyway.
yeah when this place was created it was supposed to not have so many rules, i know with so many trolls just waiting to screw this place up we need rules but not to this extent.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:32 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:24 PM

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lol You can't just make rules like that, it would be another source of wank. Just drop this upvote thing, its completely unnecessary anyway.
it's not hard to implement a new rule if there's going to be another service provided lol you're being a little irrational right now
Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
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Frost
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Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:49 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:32 PM

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it's not hard to implement a new rule if there's going to be another service provided lol you're being a little irrational right now
Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
10 times??? When did that happen :huh:
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Frost
Sep 5 2013, 08:50 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:49 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM

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Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
10 times??? When did that happen :huh:
it's called an exaggeration to make a point. i've seen the same pic/gif quoted at least 5 times on one page a few times.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:49 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:32 PM

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it's not hard to implement a new rule if there's going to be another service provided lol you're being a little irrational right now
Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
I don't care for them either. You can ask people in the thread to tone it down, but making a rule about it will only create chaos.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:55 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:49 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:36 PM

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Because having a rule prohibiting people to post x2 x3 is very rational.
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
I don't care for them either. You can ask people in the thread to tone it down, but making a rule about it will only create chaos.
i'm not saying make a rule right now.

i'm just saying IF we had upvotes, then there would be no purpose to having comments like x2 x3 x4.

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Ihla
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I personally don't mind the x2 comments, it's not really that different from writing an I agree/disagree comment, and people are not obligated to explain with they agree/disagree with another person's comments.

ETA:
Just to be clear, I don't really mind us having an upvote option, but it's almost certain that some people here, not to mention trolls + shit stirrers would abuse it.
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Sep 5 2013, 08:58 PM
Anon
Sep 5 2013, 08:55 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:49 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 08:45 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
because they're so significant to the forum, right? having the same pic/gif quoted 10 times on the same page with no comment attached to it except x2, x3, x4 isn't annoying at all, right?
I don't care for them either. You can ask people in the thread to tone it down, but making a rule about it will only create chaos.
i'm not saying make a rule right now.

i'm just saying IF we had upvotes, then there would be no purpose to having comments like x2 x3 x4.

da Someone gets the point of the upvote function. Four for you Glen Coco Anon. :goldstar:
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Abc
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Ihla
Sep 5 2013, 09:42 PM
I personally don't mind the x2 comments, it's not really that different from writing an I agree/disagree comment, and people are not obligated to explain with they agree/disagree with another person's comments.
x2 (the irony :rofl: )
:spy:

I honestly don't mind them, and a rule for it? Hell no lol that makes no sense.
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zyx
Sep 5 2013, 06:01 PM
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Sep 5 2013, 03:53 PM
But I don't get the comment of space for abuse? I would imagine the system would limit the upvote to one per person (or IP?). And unless upvoting will change something in the post like making it more noticeable one wonders if anyone would bother. How exactly would the possible abuse take form?
Letting anons upvote posts would mean that I could make an ugly comment, use a bunch of proxies to give it a significant number of upvotes and claim that there is quite a bunch of people thinking that way. We could start a wank or two over it.

I could also go and twist the overall balance of upvotes in any way I please. For example there could be a post with 5 legit upvotes that would look like a popular opinion compared to posts with 0-2 upvotes. But if I go and make sure that other opinions around have 10 upvotes or more, it would look like an average opinion at best. You could say that a reasonably smart person would not take those votes seriously, but I've seen tests showing that people do get affected by numbers like this. You could have a person or two shaping out public opinion to look like they prefer it to look.

It would be a bit useless at best and dangerous at worst and there is no existing solution that allows anons to vote that I know of. It means I'd have to invest many hours in making something that doesn't seem very useful. I maybe mistaken though, so feel free to correct me if I'm missing something.

We can always voice out our concerns and ask people to respect each other a bit more here but then this problem is much bigger than this particular forum. Maybe we'll just have to accept that the world has changed.
That shit sounds too fucking convoluted tbh and IDT upvotes would sway people so much. Like if you read a really stupid comment that makes you think DAFUQ and then you see 10 upvotes for it. What do you think" OMG maybe this person is right? or LOL We got 11 retards in this place? I think most would go with the second. :lol: Upvotes won't make shit more valid but just get rid of x2......... long ass chains that are becoming more common. Nothing more but I guess you are right and maybe this is just beyond the forum and the world has changed and too much work and all that shit. :sorry: Meh.
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This was supposed to be a response to ABC's post about Yoona ping but I quoted wrong. js

http://w11.zetaboards.com/sogayshidae/single/?p=8565069&t=8850116
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xyz
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Girls, I'm sorry to say this but this whole debate right now is a bit of waste. It's not like mods will be magically able to turn this system on once you convince everyone it's a good idea (and it definitely makes sense in a way).

The question is not about idea being good. It's about it being worth the price. And the price for this one would be very high.

I recall seeing an existing solution for this kind of functionality. It does work for registered users only. In fact a lot of features and modifications of ZB are registered user oriented - polls, chats, PM, all kinds of reputation systems. This makes sense if you think about it. Anonymous users are impossible to identify, it's very hard to store data their actions produce, and even if made possible a lot of functionality would be rendered useless by possibility of abuse. Developers just don't bother going in that direction. So as I said in my original answer, trying to make this work for anons would mean going against the principles this forum works on and that would mean countless hours spent on trying without any guarantee for success. I will not say that it's impossible with 100% confidence but I'm not sure I'm willing to spend all this time in hope to achieve something so little that can end up being abused.

Once again, I do not think this idea is stupid or hopeless by itself. It's just too expensive for the little result it can possibly bring.



x100500's are unfortunately the part of today's Internet culture. As much as I find them a sign of degradation personally, we just can't tell people how how to talk on an anonymous entertainment forum. It's definitely not a rule material. Doesn't mean you can't bitch about it from time to time.
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Abc
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xyz
Sep 5 2013, 11:10 PM



x100500's are unfortunately the part of today's Internet culture. As much as I find them a sign of degradation personally, we just can't tell people how how to talk on an anonymous entertainment forum. It's definitely not a rule material. Doesn't mean you can't bitch about it from time to time.
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