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Western Entertainment
Topic Started: Sep 9 2013, 01:13 AM (16,882 Views)
Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Oct 11 2013, 09:49 PM
You're forgetting that mages throughout the rest of Thedas aren't treated like royalty as they are in Tevinter (Merril even less so since she's a Dalish elf). Fenris himself even says that not all Magistrates are like Danarius, but a select few are corrupt malificarum. He's nice to Bethany because she doesn't show any emotion in her interactions with him besides passive agreement.

I agree though, it's a major step for him in thought; his actions and words still come across as belligerent. Maybe he'll reappear in DAIII with a less hypocritical agenda, we'll see. Didn't like Anders either, but that's just because I found him annoying. I also compared him a lot with Awakening Anders.

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I don't think you've tried to understand the characters in DA2 at all.

That is quite the jump considering I've given a lot of thought to how the characters come across :rofl: Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I lack any sort of understanding - it just means I interpret the characters differently.
I'm not forgetting that. Fenris also says their treatment doesn't eliminate the potential threat they pose, and he's also very right - you just need to look at the Ferelden Circle to understand that. All it takes is one mage going mental to kill so many people, and it's the potential for mages - any mage, even a child - to become so dangerous that makes them such a big threat, which is true. Heck, they don't even have to be malicious about it; Connor could've killed an entire village of people by accident if your Warden hadn't stepped in, and he was just a 7 year old kid.

He's also seen constant evidence of mages turning to blood magic and becoming abominations when there's the slightest hint of trouble, or even if they fancy lording it up over people. He wants them to be governed harshly because to not govern them harshly is to open up the potential for another Tevinter Imperium, where people can sacrifice non-mages for no reason other than they need their blood for some blood magic. If you let Feynriel go to Tevinter instead of making him tranquil, he'll mention in his letter that the Magisters can kill their slaves in the middle of the street to start a duel with blood magic and nobody even bats an eyelid, which implies it's a pretty common occurrence. When a slave can be sacrificed just to have a little fight with another guy, it's no wonder that Fenris is bitter about it, because every dead or sacrificed slave is a slave he could have been, and it shows how little a non-mage life is worth there.

Of course he's belligerent. You don't grow out of a lifetime of oppression, torture and enslavement because one guy was nice to you. He rethinks his position because of Hawke, he doesn't suddenly get cured of all of the bitterness that his past has caused him.

Anders was a fucking terrorist. Yeah, blow up the most important religious building in the city and kill all the people in it, that'll definitely help people become sympathetic to the mages. Great going. :eyeroll:

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That is quite the jump considering I've given a lot of thought to how the characters come across :rofl: Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I lack any sort of understanding - it just means I interpret the characters differently.

It's not so much interpretation as much as it doesn't even seem like you listened to his dialogue. Fenris says pretty much word for word when you recruit him that he sticks with mage Hawke for both protection and to repay him, so it's really not that hard to grasp why he's a party member. He also never "turns a blind eye", either, because again, he says word for word that he'll be keeping his eye on mage Hawke and any mages in your party, again when you recruit him.
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orangedaffodils
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Connor isn't really the best example - he's a child, and probably an impressionable one at that. Isolde refused to send him to the Circle despite Eamon's protests and then hired that dumbass Jowan to be his teacher. Not surprised at all about what went down.

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Of course he's belligerent. You don't grow out of a lifetime of oppression, torture and enslavement because one guy was nice to you. He rethinks his position because of Hawke, he doesn't suddenly get cured of all of the bitterness that his past has caused him.

And the same can be said about mages elsewhere outside of Tevinter...

I mean, I had no trouble grasping why he decides to join the party - his intent is made very clear. What I don't understand is why the developers thought it made sense for him to stick around (why waste one's time sticking around to simply "keep an eye" on the mages in the party? His immediate worry should be running away from - or engaging - Danarius, not playing nanny to Hawke and his/her friends). Like I said, it's not so much a problem with Fenris as it is with the rivalry/friend scaling system that's in place. That aside, I stand by my interpretation and don't think it dulls my understanding of Fenris's character.

Anders was quite unhinged in about the opposite way that Fenris was. Him blowing up the church reminds me of what V did to the clock tower in V for Vendetta. Only thing I enjoyed about Anders in DAII was that he was healing those that are usually ignored in Kirkwall.
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Artichoke
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He is the best example, though, if you understand what point I'm making - he is an impressionable child, and he didn't do what he did out of malice, but because he didn't know better. If an innocent kid can cause that much devastation, it drives home how important it is to have mages in the Circle, no matter how they feel about it.

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And the same can be said about mages elsewhere outside of Tevinter...
Not really... You can't compare slavery to being in a strict boarding school, lmfao.

And it does make sense for him to stick around, he states that very clearly in his intro, too. He's paying Hawke back, because while he hates mages, he's not ungrateful, and it's safer to be with the kickass guy who was prepared to help him out the first time and could probably have a chance at defeating Danarius (which he was planning to do) and is willing to do so (as has just been proven). He's sick of running, which he ALSO states.

It's all explained VERY EXPLICITLY in his dialogue, especially in his Questioning Beliefs, haha. He says he's helping Hawke because Hawke helped him when you recruit him, and he says that he stayed because he wants to turn and start to fight Danarius when you're talking to him during Questioning Beliefs, and that Hawke is his best chance of doing that. I really don't think you were paying attention at all.
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Anybody read Calvin and Hobbes?
There's gonna be a Bill Watterson/C&H documentary being released in November :run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtmV7-f_j7Y
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 01:13 AM
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And the same can be said about mages elsewhere outside of Tevinter...
Not really... You can't compare slavery to being in a strict boarding school, lmfao.
You're forgetting about Qunari mages who are lugged around in chains doing the bidding of the Arvaraad - that's slavery.

And it's not like the Circle is some boarding school that's all peachy keen; Kirkwall templars started making mages tranquil for absolutely no reason other than because Meredith went craycray. As if getting your conscience ripped from your being is somehow better. The exceptional treatment of mages on such a large systematic scale is really only practiced in Tevinter - it's an isolated occurrence in relation to all the other countries in Thedas where mages are discriminated and persecuted for not adhering to Chantry law. So when Fenris echoes all that anti-mage sentiment in an environment where mages are actively getting shit on, it just further exacerbates this.

Lmao, if you want to think that I wasn't paying attention then that's on you. Don't think this conversation is really going anywhere tbh. Feel like we're just going to end up talking in circles and I don't have that kind of attention span.
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Oct 12 2013, 04:36 AM
You're forgetting about Qunari mages who are lugged around in chains doing the bidding of the Arvaraad - that's slavery.

And it's not like the Circle is some boarding school that's all peachy keen; Kirkwall templars started making mages tranquil for absolutely no reason other than because Meredith went craycray. As if getting your conscience ripped from your being is somehow better. The exceptional treatment of mages on such a large systematic scale is really only practiced in Tevinter - it's an isolated occurrence in relation to all the other countries in Thedas where mages are discriminated and persecuted for not adhering to Chantry law. So when Fenris echoes all that anti-mage sentiment in an environment where mages are actively getting shit on, it just further exacerbates this.

Lmao, if you want to think that I wasn't paying attention then that's on you. Don't think this conversation is really going anywhere tbh. Feel like we're just going to end up talking in circles and I don't have that kind of attention span.
That's not slavery, that's just culture differences, and the ones who disagree and can be considered oppressed can escape to become Tal Vashoth, which they do. The Qunari also are quite content with their restrictions and agree that they make sense, if you remember Sheparding Wolves and Ketojan's reaction to being freed, because that's their role in Qunari society. You can disagree with the Qun if you want, but the Saarebas agree with it and more than happily abide by it, so it's not like they're doing it out of lack of choice. There could be some non-Qunari Kossith in Par Vollen etc. who aren't able to escape, true, but that's not likely.

It's also stated that Kirkwall is a very rare case because of how thin the Veil is there (see: Enigma of Kirkwall codex), which leads to a disproportionate amount of demonic possessions and abominations, and Meredith went mental because of lyrium idol poisoning, so was acting under strenuous circumstances. Plus, a lot of Templars in Kirkwall are incredibly uncomfortable with the practice and actively try and overthrow her and help mages escape for over 6 years, and even Cullen, the most anti-mage guy ever because of the Ferelden Circle shit, begins to question Meredith about 4 years in, which suggests that the general state of the Circle is precisely like that of a strict boarding school.

If you were actually paying attention, you should show it by having even the most basic and explicitly stated knowledge of Fenris's character. Everything you've said has been directly answered in Fenris's dialogue word for word, so what other conclusion am I supposed to draw? Bad memory? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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babycakes
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This thread is in a foreign language for me..

Blue is slated to hit Aussie cinemas in Feb 2014, maybe I can catch it on the anniversary of St. Valentine's execution. ^_^
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 05:20 AM
This thread is in a foreign language for me..
I like video games. :$
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orangedaffodils
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Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 05:15 AM
If you were actually paying attention, you should show it by having even the most basic and explicitly stated knowledge of Fenris's character. Everything you've said has been directly answered in Fenris's dialogue word for word, so what other conclusion am I supposed to draw? Bad memory? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ok, Arti. Whatever you say. :rofl:
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Artichoke
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orangedaffodils
Oct 12 2013, 05:42 AM
ok, Arti. Whatever you say. :rofl:
Indeed. You go enjoy your life. :)
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babycakes
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Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 05:21 AM
I like video games. :$
Me too, only I like the ones that don't involve thinking. :)
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Yuwree
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Warcraft would have made such a fantastic anime
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Windmill
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Yuwree
Oct 12 2013, 11:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTQxfs15Z-Q

Warcraft would have made such a fantastic anime
A live action movie is in the make. It's scheduled for 2015.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1928490/news/1928490/weekly-ketchup-colin-farrell-and-paula-patton-in-talks-for-lead-emwarcraftem-roles/
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Windmill
Oct 12 2013, 11:34 AM
Yuwree
Oct 12 2013, 11:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTQxfs15Z-Q

Warcraft would have made such a fantastic anime
A live action movie is in the make. It's scheduled for 2015.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1928490/news/1928490/weekly-ketchup-colin-farrell-and-paula-patton-in-talks-for-lead-emwarcraftem-roles/
I know right! I'm excited but nervous at the same time :'(
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Panda
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The purge can also be added to the list of terrible movies that have come out recently
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babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 09:29 AM
Me too, only I like the ones that don't involve thinking. :)
I'm totally a fan of fantasy, ngl. My love for it in fiction extends to it in video games, and there's actually a surprising amount original about a lot of the games' approaches to the genre. Occasionally you get a game that decides to try and shove every cliche possible into it, like Dragon Age: Origins, but most of the time, it's not like that. :rofl:

What games have you played?
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babycakes
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Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 04:37 PM
I'm totally a fan of fantasy, ngl. My love for it in fiction extends to it in video games, and there's actually a surprising amount original about a lot of the games' approaches to the genre. Occasionally you get a game that decides to try and shove every cliche possible into it, like Dragon Age: Origins, but most of the time, it's not like that. :rofl:

What games have you played?
Mostly PlayStation

A little Gameboy

Pathetic list of Online/PC-based games

Plus, random fb and mobile app games. Probably left some out because my memory's not too good.

I haven't played for a while though, any recommendations?
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Windmill
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No wonder Jessica Lange aged so gracefully, she was gorgeous when she was younger!

Posted Image
more pictures


Never thought of looking up what she looked like when she was younger before.
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Artichoke
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babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 05:54 PM
Mostly PlayStation

A little Gameboy

Pathetic list of Online/PC-based games

Plus, random fb and mobile app games. Probably left some out because my memory's not too good.

I haven't played for a while though, any recommendations?
I thought I replied to this. :$

Those are some solid game series! I'd recommend Shadow Hearts and Drakengard, for PS2, and Kingdoms of Amalur. Dragon Age, too, but if you're not a fan of cliche generic fantasy, I'd stick to Dragon Age 2 - the events of Origins are pretty predictable, so you won't miss much. Assassin's Creed, too.


Also, who're your favs in Tekken and SC?
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Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 08:34 PM
babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 05:54 PM
Mostly PlayStation

A little Gameboy

Pathetic list of Online/PC-based games

Plus, random fb and mobile app games. Probably left some out because my memory's not too good.

I haven't played for a while though, any recommendations?
I thought I replied to this. :$

Those are some solid game series! I'd recommend Shadow Hearts and Drakengard, for PS2, and Kingdoms of Amalur. Dragon Age, too, but if you're not a fan of cliche generic fantasy, I'd stick to Dragon Age 2 - the events of Origins are pretty predictable, so you won't miss much. Assassin's Creed, too.


Also, who're your favs in Tekken and SC?
WHAT???
No, go play Dragon Age: Origins. It's the better game.
Dragon Age 2 it's alright, but you can notice from a mile away how rushed it was with its repetition of the same map throughout the whole game. The gameplay is more fluid yes, but less strategic and more action oriented. Origins is the hardcore RPG, DA2 is the action gamer friendly RPG trying to be a fantasy Mass Effect.
Origins has a world map, DA2 you're stuck in a city. Events in Origins are bigger, DA2 you're just a champion of your city doing little jobs here and there.
Origins has more interesting characters, DA2 everyone is like out of an anime or JRPG, except Varric and Isabela


Skyrim is overrated.
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Oct 13 2013, 01:38 AM
Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 08:34 PM
babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 05:54 PM
Mostly PlayStation

A little Gameboy

Pathetic list of Online/PC-based games

Plus, random fb and mobile app games. Probably left some out because my memory's not too good.

I haven't played for a while though, any recommendations?
I thought I replied to this. :$

Those are some solid game series! I'd recommend Shadow Hearts and Drakengard, for PS2, and Kingdoms of Amalur. Dragon Age, too, but if you're not a fan of cliche generic fantasy, I'd stick to Dragon Age 2 - the events of Origins are pretty predictable, so you won't miss much. Assassin's Creed, too.


Also, who're your favs in Tekken and SC?
WHAT???
No, go play Dragon Age: Origins. It's the better game.
Dragon Age 2 it's alright, but you can notice from a mile away how rushed it was with its repetition of the same map throughout the whole game. The gameplay is more fluid yes, but less strategic and more action oriented. Origins is the hardcore RPG, DA2 is the action gamer friendly RPG trying to be a fantasy Mass Effect.
Origins has a world map, DA2 you're stuck in a city. Events in Origins are bigger, DA2 you're just a champion of your city doing little jobs here and there.
Origins has more interesting characters, DA2 everyone is like out of an anime or JRPG, except Varric and Isabela


Skyrim is overrated.
*DA, sorry
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babycakes
Oct 12 2013, 05:54 PM
Artichoke
Oct 12 2013, 04:37 PM
I'm totally a fan of fantasy, ngl. My love for it in fiction extends to it in video games, and there's actually a surprising amount original about a lot of the games' approaches to the genre. Occasionally you get a game that decides to try and shove every cliche possible into it, like Dragon Age: Origins, but most of the time, it's not like that. :rofl:

What games have you played?
Mostly PlayStation

A little Gameboy

Pathetic list of Online/PC-based games

Plus, random fb and mobile app games. Probably left some out because my memory's not too good.

I haven't played for a while though, any recommendations?
gurl you seem more into action/fighting games
since you didn't like WOW, even tho it's MMORPG, I think you won't like hardcore WRPGs such as Dragon Age, especialy Dragon Age: Origins
WRPGs are more similar to the table RPGs
you seem to enjoy JRPGs with FF series. You can try older FF games like FFVI and VII which are classics
you can try Mass Effect, I think you will enjoy it and Dead Space, if you are not one of those who can't stand "scary" games
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Artichoke
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Anon
Oct 13 2013, 01:38 AM
WHAT???
No, go play Dragon Age: Origins. It's the better game.
Dragon Age 2 it's alright, but you can notice from a mile away how rushed it was with its repetition of the same map throughout the whole game. The gameplay is more fluid yes, but less strategic and more action oriented. Origins is the hardcore RPG, DA2 is the action gamer friendly RPG trying to be a fantasy Mass Effect.
Origins has a world map, DA2 you're stuck in a city. Events in Origins are bigger, DA2 you're just a champion of your city doing little jobs here and there.
Origins has more interesting characters, DA2 everyone is like out of an anime or JRPG, except Varric and Isabela


Skyrim is overrated.
It's got crappy plot, a stilted combat system with awkward animations that relies more on random number selection and random ability selection than it does actual strategic thought and the characters are a collection of cliches taken from every damn Tolkein-copied fantasy book ever, not to mention the bullshit conlang to boot, and the terribad voice acting just makes it even more embarrassing to listen to. The interaction system plays like an awkward search algorithm and the approval is incredibly crappily implemented - it feels like you're just playing an echo chamber to whatever your companions want you to say so they don't get retardedly pissy with you and leave. Hell, it doesn't even matter, because spam gifts at them and you'll get to +100 without ever having said a word.

Origins might have a world map, but it's shallow and cliche, and if you've even read the first chapter of any fantasy novel before, you've already seen it all. Dwarves with a coronation crises, wow, original. Elves suffering under a curse, watch out, creativity is running amok. Overthrowing the tyrannical and delusional regent, never seen that before. Mages getting possessed, make sure you don't drown in the sweat shed to think that up. The overarching story is KILL THE BIG DRAGON, which we can all agree is a very unique idea.

And you complain about re-used maps, but Mass Effect is one giant grey corridor, and nobody complains about that. :rofl:

And yes, Skyrim is definitely overrated, but it's still a fun game.
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Artichoke
Oct 13 2013, 02:16 AM
Anon
Oct 13 2013, 01:38 AM
WHAT???
No, go play Dragon Age: Origins. It's the better game.
Dragon Age 2 it's alright, but you can notice from a mile away how rushed it was with its repetition of the same map throughout the whole game. The gameplay is more fluid yes, but less strategic and more action oriented. Origins is the hardcore RPG, DA2 is the action gamer friendly RPG trying to be a fantasy Mass Effect.
Origins has a world map, DA2 you're stuck in a city. Events in Origins are bigger, DA2 you're just a champion of your city doing little jobs here and there.
Origins has more interesting characters, DA2 everyone is like out of an anime or JRPG, except Varric and Isabela


Skyrim is overrated.
It's got crappy plot, a stilted combat system with awkward animations that relies more on random number selection and random ability selection than it does actual strategic thought and the characters are a collection of cliches taken from every damn Tolkein-copied fantasy book ever, not to mention the bullshit conlang to boot, and the terribad voice acting just makes it even more embarrassing to listen to. The interaction system plays like an awkward search algorithm and the approval is incredibly crappily implemented - it feels like you're just playing an echo chamber to whatever your companions want you to say so they don't get retardedly pissy with you and leave. Hell, it doesn't even matter, because spam gifts at them and you'll get to +100 without ever having said a word.

Origins might have a world map, but it's shallow and cliche, and if you've even read the first chapter of any fantasy novel before, you've already seen it all. Dwarves with a coronation crises, wow, original. Elves suffering under a curse, watch out, creativity is running amok. Overthrowing the tyrannical and delusional regent, never seen that before. Mages getting possessed, make sure you don't drown in the sweat shed to think that up. The overarching story is KILL THE BIG DRAGON, which we can all agree is a very unique idea.

And you complain about re-used maps, but Mass Effect is one giant grey corridor, and nobody complains about that. :rofl:

And yes, Skyrim is definitely overrated, but it's still a fun game.
Maybe fantasy WRPGs are not for you and you dig more the JRPG style of story telling
Yes it's a fantasy story that everyone is familiar with, but you were part of it, you saved the world, your character had the personality you wanted, your choices influenced the game and everyone around you, you cared about what was going on and about your companions. The world was huge and you notice how much time and dedication was spent on the development of that game, while DA2 they made in 1 year
you were the main protagonist of this tale, not some errand girl doing chores for the folks in town and then you're a champion...yay! or should it be the popular girl in town?

raining enemies from the sky on THE ONLY dungeon map, spam spells (if you're a mage), lack of tactics
fast action combat
DA2 is ridiculously easier compared to Origins

Fenris = JRPG character
Anders = annoying and whiny
Merril = JRPG character
Varric and Isabela are cool
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Artichoke
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Guest
Oct 13 2013, 02:27 AM
Maybe fantasy WRPGs are not for you and you dig more the JRPG style of story telling
Yes it's a fantasy story that everyone is familiar with, but you were part of it, you saved the world, your character had the personality you wanted, your choices influenced the game and everyone around you, you cared about what was going on and about your companions. The world was huge and you notice how much time and dedication was spent on the development of that game, while DA2 they made in 1 year
you were the main protagonist of this tale, not some errand girl doing chores for the folks in town and then you're a champion...yay! or should it be the popular girl in town?

raining enemies from the sky on THE ONLY dungeon map, spam spells (if you're a mage), lack of tactics
fast action combat
DA2 is ridiculously easier compared to Origins

Fenris = JRPG character
Anders = annoying and whiny
Merril = JRPG character
Varric and Isabela are cool
I love fantasy, it's my favourite genre ever, what? I have tens of fantasy books and practically all of my games are WRPGs, which is why I find DA: O so stale and repetitive. It's like they didn't even try to add anything original to it at all, and thought that somehow trying to grimdark up Lord of the Rings would somehow fool everyone into ignoring the fact that it's a blatant copy. Like I said, pick up any fantasy novel ever and read the first chapter, and there's Origins in a nutshell.

You're part of the action in Two Worlds, too, and you also save the world there, but nobody's hailing that as the GotY. Being the one to kill the big dragon doesn't make killing the big dragon any less of a shitty story motivation. :rofl:

Caring is subjective. I didn't care about anyone except Sten, and although I liked Leliana, Shale and Morrigan, I can hardly say they were the most original characters, but they did have their own flair to them that made them fun to keep around. Oghren, on the other hand, was Black Whirlwind as a dwarf and his only personality trait was "drunk", and Zevran was the generic "sexually promiscuous rogue", whereas Wynne's only setting was "preach", and Alistair was so generic I can't even think of any personality traits he had, other than "i don't want to be king".

Origins had 5 years in development, and all that came out of it was bad pacing, beige textures, characters we've seen before, and a story that reads like the Wikipedia article of LoTR. At least 2 had an excuse to be crappy.

TL;DR

+ Morally gray choices
+ Party interactions
+ Two/Three characters with enough complexity to keep me going
+ UI was innovative

- Mage is OP as fuck, rendering tactics pretty much irrelevant
- Bland graphics, bland textures, bland colours
- Terrible pacing - spent at least 5 hours in the Deep Roads
- Enemies are all the same
- Subquests are bland and have no character
- Shallow combat
- Shallow world-building
- Classes are boring and generic
- Dull, cliche setting
- Uninspired
- Tactics seem to work randomly

Anders was annoying and whiny, but Alistair was even whinier, and at least Anders was complex - same with Fenris. I didn't like either of them because their constant preaching got on my tits, but I can at least appreciate what they were as characters. I quite liked Merrill, and while I'll admit the setup for her character was definitely pretty retarded, they write her in a charming enough way to get over that, and I liked that her being shunned was pretty much her fault for making stupid decisions. It's nice when characters actually have a different spin on them than usual, and provoke agreement or disagreement. I nearly always pursued a rivalry with her bc I thought she was being dumb, but then a dialogue with Anders (something like, "I understand that there are no good spirits in the Fade, I'm sorry you didn't") shows that she does actually know what she's on about and is actually rather responsible.

DA2 was Hawke's personal quest, and the quests therefore were more personalised and felt more central to my character. DAO was generic and contrived - oh, btw, you're totally a Warden now, so you have to go to these four places to get an army!! Even if you have no personal motivation to do so!!! BECAUSE PLOT!!!!
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Artichoke
Oct 13 2013, 02:43 AM
Anon
Oct 13 2013, 02:27 AM
Maybe fantasy WRPGs are not for you and you dig more the JRPG style of story telling
Yes it's a fantasy story that everyone is familiar with, but you were part of it, you saved the world, your character had the personality you wanted, your choices influenced the game and everyone around you, you cared about what was going on and about your companions. The world was huge and you notice how much time and dedication was spent on the development of that game, while DA2 they made in 1 year
you were the main protagonist of this tale, not some errand girl doing chores for the folks in town and then you're a champion...yay! or should it be the popular girl in town?

raining enemies from the sky on THE ONLY dungeon map, spam spells (if you're a mage), lack of tactics
fast action combat
DA2 is ridiculously easier compared to Origins

Fenris = JRPG character
Anders = annoying and whiny
Merril = JRPG character
Varric and Isabela are cool
I love fantasy, it's my favourite genre ever, what? I have tens of fantasy books and practically all of my games are WRPGs, which is why I find DA: O so stale and repetitive. It's like they didn't even try to add anything original to it at all, and thought that somehow trying to grimdark up Lord of the Rings would somehow fool everyone into ignoring the fact that it's a blatant copy. Like I said, pick up any fantasy novel ever and read the first chapter, and there's Origins in a nutshell.

You're part of the action in Two Worlds, too, and you also save the world there, but nobody's hailing that as the GotY. Being the one to kill the big dragon doesn't make killing the big dragon any less of a shitty story motivation. :rofl:

Caring is subjective. I didn't care about anyone except Sten, and although I liked Leliana, Shale and Morrigan, I can hardly say they were the most original characters, but they did have their own flair to them that made them fun to keep around. Oghren, on the other hand, was Black Whirlwind as a dwarf and his only personality trait was "drunk", and Zevran was the generic "sexually promiscuous rogue", whereas Wynne's only setting was "preach", and Alistair was so generic I can't even think of any personality traits he had, other than "i don't want to be king".

Origins had 5 years in development, and all that came out of it was bad pacing, beige textures, characters we've seen before, and a story that reads like the Wikipedia article of LoTR. At least 2 had an excuse to be crappy.

TL;DR

+ Morally gray choices
+ Party interactions
+ Two/Three characters with enough complexity to keep me going
+ UI was innovative

- Mage is OP as fuck, rendering tactics pretty much irrelevant
- Bland graphics, bland textures, bland colours
- Terrible pacing - spent at least 5 hours in the Deep Roads
- Enemies are all the same
- Subquests are bland and have no character
- Shallow combat
- Shallow world-building
- Classes are boring and generic
- Dull, cliche setting
- Uninspired
- Tactics seem to work randomly

Anders was annoying and whiny, but Alistair was even whinier, and at least Anders was complex - same with Fenris. I didn't like either of them because their constant preaching got on my tits, but I can at least appreciate what they were as characters. I quite liked Merrill, and while I'll admit the setup for her character was definitely pretty retarded, they write her in a charming enough way to get over that, and I liked that her being shunned was pretty much her fault for making stupid decisions. It's nice when characters actually have a different spin on them than usual, and provoke agreement or disagreement. I nearly always pursued a rivalry with her bc I thought she was being dumb, but then a dialogue with Anders (something like, "I understand that there are no good spirits in the Fade, I'm sorry you didn't") shows that she does actually know what she's on about and is actually rather responsible.

DA2 was Hawke's personal quest, and the quests therefore were more personalised and felt more central to my character. DAO was generic and contrived - oh, btw, you're totally a Warden now, so you have to go to these four places to get an army!! Even if you have no personal motivation to do so!!! BECAUSE PLOT!!!!
- Mage is OP as fuck, rendering tactics pretty much irrelevant - NOPE
- Bland graphics, bland textures, bland colours - LOOKED GREAT HERE, MAYBE IT'S YOUR CONSOLE? DID YOU PLAY ON PC? I ACTUALLY CAN SAY ALL THAT ABOYT SKYRIM
- Terrible pacing - spent at least 5 hours in the Deep Roads - THE DEEP ROADS WAS THE LONGEST AND PRETTY MUCH THE HARDEST TASK. IS THIS YOUR ONLY COMPLAIN OF THE PACING? THE DEEP ROADS? I GOT SOME PRETTY COOL ARMOR AND OTHER SHIT THERE
- Enemies are all the same - WELL, THEY ARE DARKSPAWN
- Subquests are bland and have no character - SUBJECTIVE. THE QUESTS IN DA2 HAD NO CHARACTER. GO FIGHT THAT PERSON, OK, GO TO THE ONLY DUNGEON MAP, WIN, COME BACK AND TAKE MONEY
- Shallow combat - WHAT THE HELL IS A SHALLOW COMBAT?
- Shallow world-building - SEE QUESTION ABOVE
- Classes are boring and generic - THE SAME CLASSES USED IN EVERY WRPG. WARRIOR, ROGUE AND MAGE. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? AT LEAST EVERY RACE HAD A INDIVIDUAL ORIGIN AND EVOLVED WITH THE GAME
- Dull, cliche setting - WHAT'S THAT?
- Uninspired - YOU PREFER DA2 WHICH HAVE ONE SINGLE MAP FOR DUNGEONS AND MANSIONS AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT AN OPEN WORLD GAME WITH VERY DIFFERENT SETTINGS IS UNINSPIRED?
- Tactics seem to work randomly - IT WORKED HERE JUST FINE, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ARRANGE IT?
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lol I honestly think you're in the 1% of the people who says DA2 is better than Origins
I've never met anyone that played both games and said that
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Artichoke
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Anon
Oct 13 2013, 02:55 AM
- Mage is OP as fuck, rendering tactics pretty much irrelevant - NOPE
- Bland graphics, bland textures, bland colours - LOOKED GREAT HERE, MAYBE IT'S YOUR CONSOLE? DID YOU PLAY ON PC? I ACTUALLY CAN SAY ALL THAT ABOYT SKYRIM
- Terrible pacing - spent at least 5 hours in the Deep Roads - THE DEEP ROADS WAS THE LONGEST AND PRETTY MUCH THE HARDEST TASK. IS THIS YOUR ONLY COMPLAIN OF THE PACING? THE DEEP ROADS? I GOT SOME PRETTY COOL ARMOR AND OTHER SHIT THERE
- Enemies are all the same - WELL, THEY ARE DARKSPAWN
- Subquests are bland and have no character - SUBJECTIVE. THE QUESTS IN DA2 HAD NO CHARACTER. GO FIGHT THAT PERSON, OK, GO TO THE ONLY DUNGEON MAP, WIN, COME BACK AND TAKE MONEY
- Shallow combat - WHAT THE HELL IS A SHALLOW COMBAT?
- Shallow world-building - SEE QUESTION ABOVE
- Classes are boring and generic - THE SAME CLASSES USED IN EVERY WRPG. WARRIOR, ROGUE AND MAGE. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? AT LEAST EVERY RACE HAD A INDIVIDUAL ORIGIN AND EVOLVED WITH THE GAME
- Dull, cliche setting - WHAT'S THAT?
- Uninspired - YOU PREFER DA2 WHICH HAVE ONE SINGLE MAP FOR DUNGEONS AND MANSIONS AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT AN OPEN WORLD GAME WITH VERY DIFFERENT SETTINGS IS UNINSPIRED?
- Tactics seem to work randomly - IT WORKED HERE JUST FINE, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ARRANGE IT?
:rofl:

If you want to stan to the point of delusion, you go ahead and do that, it's no skin off my nose. There's clearly no point in continuing this.

@Babycakes Another one I've thought of - the Legacy of K@!n series. You should probably stick to the Soul Reaver titles and Defiance, though - Blood Omen 1 & 2 aren't as good.
*Kingdom Under Fire, too. Prince of Persia (I only really liked Sands of Time and Two Thrones, tho), GrimGrimoire, Persona series, Deadly Premonition, I second the other rec of Dead Space since it's a decentish survival horror though imo not that scary, El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron, Fallout, L.A. Noire, Prototype, Red Dead Redemption, Demon's Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Heavy Rain, Rage, Resonance of Fate, Skate 1, 2 & 3...
:P
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You're the one not making sense
maybe you sucked at the game and go around saying the game is bad and DA2 is better just because is easier to play with it
DA2 is the inferior game and any soul that played both games with no problems can say that
just because you have difficulty with the game it doesn't mean it's bad, maybe it's just not for you. Origins requires strategy not button smashing
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Artichoke
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Anon
Oct 13 2013, 03:07 AM
You're the one not making sense
maybe you sucked at the game and go around saying the game is bad and DA2 is better just because is easier to play with it
DA2 is the inferior game and any soul that played both games with no problems can say that
just because you have difficulty with the game it doesn't mean it's bad, maybe it's just not for you. Origins requires strategy not button smashing
Yes, I definitely sucked at it. It was incredibly difficult to keep spamming Cone of Cold and AoE ice spells for everything, and it was oh-so-trying to have a party of tank-mage-mage-archer so I could Scattershot all the time, so I struggled with it a lot. Woe is me. :'(
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Artichoke
Oct 13 2013, 03:09 AM
Anon
Oct 13 2013, 03:07 AM
You're the one not making sense
maybe you sucked at the game and go around saying the game is bad and DA2 is better just because is easier to play with it
DA2 is the inferior game and any soul that played both games with no problems can say that
just because you have difficulty with the game it doesn't mean it's bad, maybe it's just not for you. Origins requires strategy not button smashing
Yes, I definitely sucked at it. It was incredibly difficult to keep spamming Cone of Cold and AoE ice spells for everything, and it was oh-so-trying to have a party of tank-mage-mage-archer so I could Scattershot all the time, so I struggled with it a lot. Woe is me. :'(
you're talking about Origins? because you can't just spam spells
which difficulty did you play?
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Oct 13 2013, 03:11 AM
you're talking about Origins? because you can't just spam spells
which difficulty did you play?
Yes, you can. I was playing it on Normal, but that was easy as piss, so I ramped it up to Nightmare. You can overcomplicate it if you want, but Scattershot, CoC and ice AoEs made everything ridiculously easy because mages are ridiculously unbalanced. The only thing I've got left to beat is the Harvester.
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Artichoke
Oct 13 2013, 03:13 AM
Anon
Oct 13 2013, 03:11 AM
you're talking about Origins? because you can't just spam spells
which difficulty did you play?
Yes, you can. I was playing it on Normal, but that was easy as piss, so I ramped it up to Nightmare. You can overcomplicate it if you want, but Scattershot, CoC and ice AoEs made everything ridiculously easy because mages are ridiculously unbalanced. The only thing I've got left to beat is the Harvester.
HAHA sure
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Artichoke
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Oct 13 2013, 03:14 AM
HAHA sure
Sounds like you're the one who's shit at the game, tbh. I've got the cheeves to prove it. :whistle:
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Artichoke
Oct 13 2013, 03:15 AM
Anon
Oct 13 2013, 03:14 AM
HAHA sure
Sounds like you're the one who's shit at the game, tbh.
did I hurt your feelings saying you suck at the game? I was just assuming
you seem to get upset when people disagree with you
I played on normal both times, but back then when it was released bioware had to release a patch to make the game easier because everyone was complaining of the difficulty
this was in 2009/10
now it is easier, however certain enemies are particularly difficult, unless you avoid them
like the Revenants to get the juggernaut armor and the mountain top dragon
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