| Welcome to The Fictional Woods. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| philosophy | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Jan 4 2008, 11:01 AM (2,581 Views) | |
| suzannahhh | Jan 4 2008, 11:01 AM Post #1 |
Forum junkie
  ![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
|
got to Isaiah Berlin via Raymond Tallis biscuit (anybody) you read an ything of h is you recommend a starting place? I'm real interested in his notions on Counter-Enlightenment |
 |
 
|
| onefatman | Jan 4 2008, 11:08 AM Post #2 |
|
Unregistered
|
counter-.enlightenment, at least as outlined here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Enlightenment was, i thought, common knowledge but that's my narrow view of literary history well rounded reading in german and french romanticism can warp one's understanding it's not isiah's notion in all kinds of intellectual histories this NOTION though maybe not the word can't vouch for that is common common common books in the 1920s very off-handedly painted romanticist movements as counter-enlightenment thomas mann write about that rudolf borchardt and many more take your pick the georgekreis were obsessed with writing intellectual histories so you'd find more there |
|
|
|
| onefatman | Jan 4 2008, 11:11 AM Post #3 |
|
Unregistered
|
sorry tallis irks me |
|
|
|
| suzannahhh | Jan 4 2008, 11:30 AM Post #4 |
|
Forum junkie
|
well one of the things that off-put me reading that wikipedia entry which i did before i started the thread was that counter-enl;ightenment and Sturn und drang go together! can;t get that image of Werther trying to pull up a water lily in the storm on the lake so much silliness! the essence of adullescence |
|
|
|
| Pointsman | Jan 4 2008, 11:45 AM Post #5 |
A pessimist is never disappointed
|
Adam Curtis discusses Berlin's Two Concepts of Liberty in his documentary The Trap. Mostly in Part 3, but you'll probably need to watch Part 1 and Part 2 first, in order to get the gist of the argument. |
|
|
|
| oneofmurphysbiscuits | Jan 4 2008, 11:55 AM Post #6 |
marmalade modernist
|
I think Berlin is lightweight Suz, or i should say i did when i read bits of his work years ago.There is a huge difference as Iris once observed between talking about philosophy anddoing philosophy. i've yet to read any Tallis, but really if he's referencing Berlin as further reading or a source, then to be honest i think he's wasting your time. Berlin i know was quite self deprecating re his own abilities as thinker. But i really have to find my copy of existentialists and mysticsa bit later. Meantime, back to the novel. As for philosophy you know so many of my favourites already 
|
|
|
| suzannahhh | Jan 4 2008, 11:57 AM Post #7 |
|
Forum junkie
|
now, biscuit there are ways and ways of referencing as you well know I guess I should add that, while I ask for opinions, I don't necessarily abide by the tenor of them as I feel perfectly capable of reading and seeing how an author's thoughts feel to me though in the case of biscuit we are so copacetic I can usually be confident there will be agreement |
|
|
|
| oneofmurphysbiscuits | Jan 4 2008, 12:04 PM Post #8 |
|
marmalade modernist
|
fair dos, i stand corrected until i've read the books i'll reserve judgement i promise I should say that Suz of the books that were recommended by books that were recommended/sourcedin books that i've read this year, so many have bored me, so i was sort of projecting (shameful! ,grin>) hugs |
|
|
|
| suzannahhh | Jan 4 2008, 12:06 PM Post #9 |
|
Forum junkie
|
it's always disappointing when books referencing [positively] other books lead to less than great referrals! but what can we do there are things to be learned even in these circumstances |
|
|
|
| onefatman | Jan 4 2008, 02:09 PM Post #10 |
|
Unregistered
|
not quite. or rather: no. sturm und drang is a very hard to define period and many would take werther out of it excellent plays in there gerstenberg's ugolino, or lenz' plays very enlightenment, these. or wagner's kindermörderin (a different wagner) etc etc |
|
|
|
| onefatman | Jan 4 2008, 02:19 PM Post #11 |
|
Unregistered
|
dammit I knew there was a nicer way to put this. thank you. :D |
|
|
|
| oneofmurphysbiscuits | Jan 6 2008, 09:36 PM Post #12 |
|
marmalade modernist
|
Tallis..i'm only a little way inbut just once i wouldn't mind a right of reply, not to negate or manifest anything like hostility but simply for his being so predictable at this point. |
|
|
|
| oneofmurphysbiscuits | Jan 6 2008, 10:44 PM Post #13 |
|
marmalade modernist
|
Suz doesn't Tallis annoy you, seriously..because aside from anything else - and leaving aside the neurology as insight blah blah, he seems to fall into so many traps. To explain how things work is not to negate humanity and yet as presented by Raymond..It's very annoying and i'm not a scientist, though i do have an interesting portfolio of grips
|
|
|
|
| onefatman | Jan 6 2008, 11:03 PM Post #14 |
|
Unregistered
|
thx again. *bows* |
|
|
|
| suzannahhh | Jan 6 2008, 11:20 PM Post #15 |
|
Forum junkie
|
I'm not reading him right now, Biscuit I'm in the grips of TA-DAAAA FICTION which tends not to annoy me |
|
|
|
| oneofmurphysbiscuits | Jan 6 2008, 11:44 PM Post #16 |
|
marmalade modernist
|
TA DA indeed! there are things in the book i might play about with, interrogate, but it is dull for the most part. Have better fun with your fiction hugs |
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Apr 29 2010, 11:42 AM Post #17 |
|
Deleted User
|
Currently reading "Rorty and his Critics" which is a barrelful of fun. A longish quote from the introductory essay http://shigekuni.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/silly-rather-than-discussable/ |
|
|
|
| John Tanner | Apr 29 2010, 09:08 PM Post #18 |
Literary lunatic
|
I really admire that Rorty responded to so many of his critics. Along with Rorty and his Critics there is Rorty: Critical Dialogues and Rorty and Pragmatism: The Philosopher Responds to His Critics, also I know he has other exchanges in journals. He is a favourite of mine and an exceptional essayist in my opinion. |
|
|
|
| nnyhav | Apr 29 2010, 10:36 PM Post #19 |
itinerant kibitzer
|
But he's no longer among the living. (nor my fave tho of course I admire any philosopher that will take on Nabokov; but sheer pragmatism keeps me reaching into my Peirce ...) (and it occurs to me that perhaps "philosopher" requires scarequotes for RR as it does for LW) Edited by nnyhav, Apr 29 2010, 11:07 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Apr 29 2010, 11:30 PM Post #20 |
|
Deleted User
|
dammit- thank you |
|
|
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · General discussion · Next Topic » |
3:07 AM May 23