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Evolution or Creation?; What do you believe?
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Topic Started: Jan 7 2009, 01:58:24 AM (689 Views)
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Rebelz
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Jan 8 2009, 08:27:34 PM
Post #41
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who does biology at school...
Anyway evolution is the only plausible explanation
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Sh0ot
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Jan 8 2009, 08:32:48 PM
Post #42
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Evolution leaves too much to chance for me.
Because betting your money on a fairy is so much more reliable.
What evolved first the mouth, teeth, tongue, esophagus, stomach, large/small intestines, or ass? Or did they all appear at the same time..
Evolution is based on the theory that you evolve only to couple that being/species necessities. If I had to guess, I'd say the mouth first. Physical consumption is definitely a large staple in growth. Perhaps not an esophagus was formed next, but some form of stem that allowed nutrients to branch to other parts of the body, and a very early model of the intestines to dispose of food (and further disperse nutrients to the body) These obviously evolved into what is now the esophagus and intestines, just as a person's body evolved into what it now is. I'd imagine stomach would be next as acidic properties are needed to break down more complicated foods. With more complicated foods come fat deposits, so the "ass" would most likely have begun forming then. The tongue next, to help break food into swallowing, and finally the teeth. All theory, none of it is backed by evolutionary evidence. It's just that it's as plausable as to say all of them appeared at once.
Pretty good explanation, but still leaves me unsatisfied. I agree with you that the mouth would have had to develop first, to actually consume stuff. Now lets assume a creature was born with a mouth, jaw, etc. Say it started grazing on grass and stuff because it didn't have any teeth (unless the teeth and mouth developed in the exact same animal, at the exact same time, which to me is complete BS given the genetic changes that would have to occur) The animal picks up grass, swallows it (can this animal even have developed a swallowing mechanism too? lets say it slid to the back of its mouth...?) Now this 'stem' would be needed, lets say that luckily developed also. The nutrients wouldn't just be able to 'branch off' because digestion is required. That requires a stomach or something like it. The human stomach has HCl in it I believe? If this stomach happened to have HCl or another acid occurring in it (quite lucky too) the HCl would rip through that stomach...thats where the mucus would occur that we humans have to protect the stomach from the HCl. Lets assume that through extreme luck this animal had all thats required so far (mouth, basic tube to the stomach). Now that the food's broken down in the stomach it needs to get into the body somewhere to support growth and life. Lets once again assume that simple intestines also came about in this animal. This simple intestine would require muscle to move the food along and all the stuff required to digest the food so it can be used. Now this stuff needs to be removed from the body somehow. Lets say the animal also developed an asshole which had all the normal mechanisms like a sphincter and stuff. The waste leaves the body. That is the most dumbed down and most plausible way a digestive system would evolve. Lets not forget that the real mechanics of our digestive system are INSANELY more complicated and intricate than this evolution version. A real stomach has different layers which do different things, it has 2 sphincters to hold the food in and release it, it has HCl and a mucous layer to stop it getting owned. Also lets not forget that all this would have to have 'evolved' in ONE animal at a single point in time. So some random thing somewhere millions of years ago was born with all that stuff, even an EXTREMELY basic version. You'll try to say that a digestive system developed over millions over years but what happened to that poor animal at 500k years that had a perfect mouth but had no intestines to digest the food. It would of died!!! Removing it and its perfect mouth from the gene pool leaving the rest of the animals at square 1 again. The first animal with say a mouth would of had to had babies somewhere down the line that luckily developed teeth, but had no use. Then a weird pipe would of had to have appeared which again at this point had no use, and so on and so forth... Seems impossibly lucky to me. I had more to say but can't word it right, this is just a big ramble and probably doesn't make too much sense. And also I sense a repeat of what happened on the last thred but IDK I'll just defend what I said now and won't come up with anymore stuff.
that's such an un educated post lol.
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Narsil
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Jan 9 2009, 12:28:04 AM
Post #43
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Scientific proof from really smart people > A storybook
Where's the proof you dumbass hippie?
And you're going to tell me that you have proof of creationism?
no you fucking moron, i never said that. he, on the other hand, said there's proof.
No you fucking moron, this wouldn't be muh of a debate if one or the other had evidence would it? Inb4blackpeoplearentthesamespeciesjoke
he said it had been proven you moron. not me, him.
O.
why are you so uncool lately
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Brendan_
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Jan 9 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Post #44
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Evolution leaves too much to chance for me.
Because betting your money on a fairy is so much more reliable.
What evolved first the mouth, teeth, tongue, esophagus, stomach, large/small intestines, or ass? Or did they all appear at the same time..
Evolution is based on the theory that you evolve only to couple that being/species necessities. If I had to guess, I'd say the mouth first. Physical consumption is definitely a large staple in growth. Perhaps not an esophagus was formed next, but some form of stem that allowed nutrients to branch to other parts of the body, and a very early model of the intestines to dispose of food (and further disperse nutrients to the body) These obviously evolved into what is now the esophagus and intestines, just as a person's body evolved into what it now is. I'd imagine stomach would be next as acidic properties are needed to break down more complicated foods. With more complicated foods come fat deposits, so the "ass" would most likely have begun forming then. The tongue next, to help break food into swallowing, and finally the teeth. All theory, none of it is backed by evolutionary evidence. It's just that it's as plausable as to say all of them appeared at once.
Pretty good explanation, but still leaves me unsatisfied. I agree with you that the mouth would have had to develop first, to actually consume stuff. Now lets assume a creature was born with a mouth, jaw, etc. Say it started grazing on grass and stuff because it didn't have any teeth (unless the teeth and mouth developed in the exact same animal, at the exact same time, which to me is complete BS given the genetic changes that would have to occur) The animal picks up grass, swallows it (can this animal even have developed a swallowing mechanism too? lets say it slid to the back of its mouth...?) Now this 'stem' would be needed, lets say that luckily developed also. The nutrients wouldn't just be able to 'branch off' because digestion is required. That requires a stomach or something like it. The human stomach has HCl in it I believe? If this stomach happened to have HCl or another acid occurring in it (quite lucky too) the HCl would rip through that stomach...thats where the mucus would occur that we humans have to protect the stomach from the HCl. Lets assume that through extreme luck this animal had all thats required so far (mouth, basic tube to the stomach). Now that the food's broken down in the stomach it needs to get into the body somewhere to support growth and life. Lets once again assume that simple intestines also came about in this animal. This simple intestine would require muscle to move the food along and all the stuff required to digest the food so it can be used. Now this stuff needs to be removed from the body somehow. Lets say the animal also developed an asshole which had all the normal mechanisms like a sphincter and stuff. The waste leaves the body. That is the most dumbed down and most plausible way a digestive system would evolve. Lets not forget that the real mechanics of our digestive system are INSANELY more complicated and intricate than this evolution version. A real stomach has different layers which do different things, it has 2 sphincters to hold the food in and release it, it has HCl and a mucous layer to stop it getting owned. Also lets not forget that all this would have to have 'evolved' in ONE animal at a single point in time. So some random thing somewhere millions of years ago was born with all that stuff, even an EXTREMELY basic version. You'll try to say that a digestive system developed over millions over years but what happened to that poor animal at 500k years that had a perfect mouth but had no intestines to digest the food. It would of died!!! Removing it and its perfect mouth from the gene pool leaving the rest of the animals at square 1 again. The first animal with say a mouth would of had to had babies somewhere down the line that luckily developed teeth, but had no use. Then a weird pipe would of had to have appeared which again at this point had no use, and so on and so forth... Seems impossibly lucky to me. I had more to say but can't word it right, this is just a big ramble and probably doesn't make too much sense. And also I sense a repeat of what happened on the last thred but IDK I'll just defend what I said now and won't come up with anymore stuff.
It's called symbiosis you stupid fuck.
I know, everyone must agree with you that there is no chance two daughter cells somehow decided to work together and they formed more and more cells that worked together and eventually created life in about 4.6 billion years.
I mean, there's no chance that other attempts at life tried to function and ended up dying within those 4.6 billions years too which leaves us with the best possible form of life.
Oh, and humans are so perfect too. Who would've thought that placing all of our internal organs in our torso would've been the ideal thing to do when they could easily be punctured with one swipe of a bear claw.
Basically, prokaryotes did not jump to humans overnight. Look up protists, that will fill in the huge gap you're obviously missing your information.
Oh and by the way, if a bunch of cells were to develop some form of grinding mechanism as you have stated, it would not need to digest it because the only thing digestion does is break up the nutrients even more to spread it around which isn't need if all of the cells are there to easily phagocytose it.
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Jonno
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Jan 9 2009, 12:58:02 AM
Post #45
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O X Pain X O
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Oh, and humans are so perfect too. Who would've thought that placing all of our internal organs in our torso would've been the ideal thing to do when they could easily be punctured with one swipe of a bear claw.
Lol I CBF getting into big argument again.
Just thought this was funny. Our torso is the perfect place for our vital organs >_< Think about it. Our lungs in our arms would fail quite hard. Their in our torso protected by a big bone cage, lucky that eh? And our brain, our most important organ is situated in our skull, in a massive bone structure. The only thing I could see improving is a stronger neck of some sort but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
And how does symbiosis help? Explain. I have a few ideas in my head but lets see yours.
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Vanity Light
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Jan 9 2009, 01:27:11 AM
Post #46
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WuD fan.
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- Jan 7 2009, 04:56 AM
Scientific proof from really smart people > A storybook
Where's the proof you dumbass hippie?
And you're going to tell me that you have proof of creationism?
no you fucking moron, i never said that. he, on the other hand, said there's proof.
No you fucking moron, this wouldn't be muh of a debate if one or the other had evidence would it? Inb4blackpeoplearentthesamespeciesjoke
he said it had been proven you moron. not me, him.
O.
why are you so uncool lately
I haven't been paying a lot of attention.
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- Jebus
- Sep 23 2009, 01:46 PM
I wont even close this, this is fucking hilarious. Fuck the rules.
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Brendan_
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Jan 9 2009, 01:28:46 AM
Post #47
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вяєиdαи™
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See, you're looking at evolution the wrong way.
Why is it that we evolved and our organs happened to be there? We had NO control over it. Why isn't it that we have separate place in our body completely protected from the world to prevent us from getting it damaged? Because a bag of chemicals with no emotion or awareness decided our fate, not some mystical being. Oh, and with that example I was comparing us to four legged animals who hide their organs on their underside whereas we evolved upright and put our organs in clear view of danger.
And how would symbiosis not help? Two small single cellular organisms working together will easily over come one large single cellular organism. This relationship still works.
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Jonno
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Jan 9 2009, 02:04:41 AM
Post #48
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See, you're looking at evolution the wrong way.
Why is it that we evolved and our organs happened to be there? We had NO control over it. Why isn't it that we have separate place in our body completely protected from the world to prevent us from getting it damaged? Because a bag of chemicals with no emotion or awareness decided our fate, not some mystical being. Oh, and with that example I was comparing us to four legged animals who hide their organs on their underside whereas we evolved upright and put our organs in clear view of danger.
And how would symbiosis not help? Two small single cellular organisms working together will easily over come one large single cellular organism. This relationship still works.
Yes, we did have no control over our 'evolution' It's all genetics and survival of the fittest and a LOT more. It happens through mutations and all that stuff, which is why I find it so hard to believe that our whole self evolved from that. I might look into it more later, but busy IRL. I did senior biology in which we learned a fair amount about evolution, probably 6 months focused on it, but im not trying to claim im an expert or anything rofl. Just saying i'm not some 8th grader.
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Brendan_
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Jan 9 2009, 02:17:45 AM
Post #49
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See, you're looking at evolution the wrong way.
Why is it that we evolved and our organs happened to be there? We had NO control over it. Why isn't it that we have separate place in our body completely protected from the world to prevent us from getting it damaged? Because a bag of chemicals with no emotion or awareness decided our fate, not some mystical being. Oh, and with that example I was comparing us to four legged animals who hide their organs on their underside whereas we evolved upright and put our organs in clear view of danger.
And how would symbiosis not help? Two small single cellular organisms working together will easily over come one large single cellular organism. This relationship still works.
Yes, we did have no control over our 'evolution' It's all genetics and survival of the fittest and a LOT more. It happens through mutations and all that stuff, which is why I find it so hard to believe that our whole self evolved from that. I might look into it more later, but busy IRL. I did senior biology in which we learned a fair amount about evolution, probably 6 months focused on it, but im not trying to claim im an expert or anything rofl. Just saying i'm not some 8th grader.
You're forgetting this all happened within 500 million years. In these years, other things evolved into other various things and they all ended up dying by now. And it's not like we went from a single celled organism to 6 foot human being overnight. It was a very gradual change.
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Chill
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Jan 9 2009, 03:44:39 AM
Post #50
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play it cool kiby
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tl;dr everything i said was right.
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jesus christ its a snail
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Jonno
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Jan 9 2009, 08:05:15 AM
Post #51
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O X Pain X O
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See, you're looking at evolution the wrong way.
Why is it that we evolved and our organs happened to be there? We had NO control over it. Why isn't it that we have separate place in our body completely protected from the world to prevent us from getting it damaged? Because a bag of chemicals with no emotion or awareness decided our fate, not some mystical being. Oh, and with that example I was comparing us to four legged animals who hide their organs on their underside whereas we evolved upright and put our organs in clear view of danger.
And how would symbiosis not help? Two small single cellular organisms working together will easily over come one large single cellular organism. This relationship still works.
Yes, we did have no control over our 'evolution' It's all genetics and survival of the fittest and a LOT more. It happens through mutations and all that stuff, which is why I find it so hard to believe that our whole self evolved from that. I might look into it more later, but busy IRL. I did senior biology in which we learned a fair amount about evolution, probably 6 months focused on it, but im not trying to claim im an expert or anything rofl. Just saying i'm not some 8th grader.
You're forgetting this all happened within 500 million years. In these years, other things evolved into other various things and they all ended up dying by now. And it's not like we went from a single celled organism to 6 foot human being overnight. It was a very gradual change.
I know its very gradual >_< I just wanna know, how the hell did say....a mouth form? Did a cavity in the face occur or something? Or did an asshole occur? Like some random sphincter appear on one of our very distant ancestors and then it went from there >_< The thing is each of these organs in the digestive tract is kinda useless without the other, some could be left out but the whole overall quality of the system would fall dramatically.
Lol Kiba!
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Deleted User
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Jan 9 2009, 08:28:12 AM
Post #52
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Deleted User
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who created god
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Jonno
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Jan 9 2009, 08:51:23 AM
Post #53
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O X Pain X O
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- Crank
- Jan 9 2009, 08:28 AM
who created god
Zezima.
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Deleted User
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Jan 9 2009, 09:02:13 AM
Post #54
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Deleted User
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ye bt zezima dnt evn play nemre lozl!2
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Jonno
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Jan 9 2009, 09:09:56 AM
Post #55
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O X Pain X O
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Hes out getting pussy! *cough*
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Chill
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Jan 9 2009, 02:19:21 PM
Post #56
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play it cool kiby
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See, you're looking at evolution the wrong way.
Why is it that we evolved and our organs happened to be there? We had NO control over it. Why isn't it that we have separate place in our body completely protected from the world to prevent us from getting it damaged? Because a bag of chemicals with no emotion or awareness decided our fate, not some mystical being. Oh, and with that example I was comparing us to four legged animals who hide their organs on their underside whereas we evolved upright and put our organs in clear view of danger.
And how would symbiosis not help? Two small single cellular organisms working together will easily over come one large single cellular organism. This relationship still works.
Yes, we did have no control over our 'evolution' It's all genetics and survival of the fittest and a LOT more. It happens through mutations and all that stuff, which is why I find it so hard to believe that our whole self evolved from that. I might look into it more later, but busy IRL. I did senior biology in which we learned a fair amount about evolution, probably 6 months focused on it, but im not trying to claim im an expert or anything rofl. Just saying i'm not some 8th grader.
You're forgetting this all happened within 500 million years. In these years, other things evolved into other various things and they all ended up dying by now. And it's not like we went from a single celled organism to 6 foot human being overnight. It was a very gradual change.
I know its very gradual >_< I just wanna know, how the hell did say....a mouth form? Did a cavity in the face occur or something? Or did an asshole occur? Like some random sphincter appear on one of our very distant ancestors and then it went from there >_< The thing is each of these organs in the digestive tract is kinda useless without the other, some could be left out but the whole overall quality of the system would fall dramatically. Lol Kiba!
The thing you don't seem to understand is that modern-day organs in complex animals didn't just sprout out of no where. They all individually evolved to adapt and compliment the other. Before a mouth and anus, the purest nutrients were most likely ingested through pores of the body, and then excreted through another system (or the same system) of pores. For more complicated nutrient extracts, a more complex "mouth" is needed to ingest it, as well as a more efficient system to rid the waste from the body. Organs as complex as ours did not and would not have just popped up out of no where. We could have had 3 stomachs, a partial liver, and a lung 1/400th the size of our body, as well as a rather simplistic digestive system (early development intestines). As the body developed, oxygen became a more essential part of our being, and the body was able to break down nutrients more effectively for less energy. The lungs expand, the stomachs begin changing to further compliment the necessities of the organism's body.
In theory obviously.
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jesus christ its a snail
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Brendan_
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Jan 9 2009, 07:18:44 PM
Post #57
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вяєиdαи™
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What I've been trying to say. And every other method attempted (use your imagination) have obviously been weeded out by now. I respect your candor for standing up to the majority of us who believe in evolution, but the questions you pose against the "flaws" of evolution have a legitimate answer whereas many questions creationism brings up have cop-out excuses for answers.
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Narsil
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Jan 9 2009, 07:36:13 PM
Post #58
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My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius
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Scientific proof from really smart people > A storybook
Where's the proof you dumbass hippie?
And you're going to tell me that you have proof of creationism?
no you fucking moron, i never said that. he, on the other hand, said there's proof.
No you fucking moron, this wouldn't be muh of a debate if one or the other had evidence would it? Inb4blackpeoplearentthesamespeciesjoke
he said it had been proven you moron. not me, him.
O.
why are you so uncool lately
I haven't been paying a lot of attention.
damn communism.
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Vanity Light
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Jan 10 2009, 02:25:37 AM
Post #59
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WuD fan.
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All right fine, here's my take:
Why would a god create us, and then just dump us here on this planet and expect us to all believe in him when he leaves absolutely no plausible physical evidence of his existence? If somebody says the bible you will be stoned on sight. There is no actual evidence that the bible has any credible divinity other than itself other than the ideology of a man that claimed to be god, and was crucified.
My parents are pastors and I've been trying to discredit their beliefs since I was like 12 years old. I know a lot about the bible (a lot more than most people do) because I was sent to private Christian academies for 10/12 years of schooling. We actually had a debate in our class dedicated to the life and letters of Paul (the apostle). It was a class project debating whether or not Jesus Christ was actually resurrected from the dead. The prosecution (that would discredit Jesus Christ, [also the team I was on]) won. I found it hysterical how hypocritical everyone there is.
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- Jebus
- Sep 23 2009, 01:46 PM
I wont even close this, this is fucking hilarious. Fuck the rules.
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Narsil
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Jan 10 2009, 04:28:55 AM
Post #60
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My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius
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The biggest thing I see is that non-creationists rely on proof where creationists lean more towards faith. It's ok to have faith in something, proof isn't always necessary.
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