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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (26,012 Views)
OMB
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TOE-NEE
Jun 12 2015, 11:33 PM
OMB
Jun 12 2015, 09:25 PM
This place is a ghost town and the FB group is like 90% people either trying to buy or sell cards or posting self-congratulatory pictures of their foil collecitons.


What's wrong with that? Why is that a problem?
It's a ratio thing. I'm not going to sit here and say I don't have full foil decks. Heck, TOE-NEE, you helped me finish one of them!

I just miss the rest of it. The rules debates, the requests for deck advice/sharing of cool combos, tournament reports, etc.

Now with the new game it feels like it's all just a bunch of bitterness, speculation, and people running firesales of old stuff. I don't build a lot of new decks any more just for lack of inspiration. I liked building for restrictive, odd-ball tournament formats to force creativity. I liked seeing someone else share an idea that I found intriguing enough to run out and try to build a version myself.

I would rather read 50 threads like Bortea's about "Hey guys, I really want to build a deck around 5 drop MTU Dr. Doom that uses Hypnotic Charms to avoid having to run any other Doom characters" than I would another debate over what the best build of Trinity is and where I can track down copies of Supes, MM or WW, AoP.

I mostly just miss seeing off the wall stuff with something approaching regularity.
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Wallywest1988
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I feel like old VS was done to death and there isn't much left. I like limited formats for this reason. Sealed Draft etc.

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-TK-
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BatHulk
Jun 12 2015, 07:09 PM
@TK:

I was addressing one accusation. There were several (these were made by you):
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What they are doing is making fun of vs system players
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I'l repeat it: they already made money on the old vs system players.
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What we know is they the said they would, they got the money from the old community and then they used it for a completely different game.
...
I was specifically referring to them getting money from people and not delivering what they promised.

This is the one I was talking about:
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Nope, I'm telling you that they promised VS System and asked money for VS System. Then used it for this totally unrelated game.

Again, saying something was a test run, saying that they want to bring the original Vs System is not tied to the money paid for those sets. Did someone from UDE say "The money from these sets will pay for the new Vs game"?

And you can't say that that was absolute reason people bought those sets. New players could have bought them and old players could have bought them for the shirt (was a shirt included in each set?).

Which brings up my previous point. How many players at GenCon 2014 were from the Vs 1.0 community? There are barely any players here (I count less than 25 active members). So how in the world could they have sold 1000, 10000 or even 500 of these sets last year esp if it's not a booster box so you will only buy 1? How many were at the Vs Worlds last year? Was it even 100?

There is some bad math going on here.
And all those accusations were related to the simple fact that they promised us VS System and asked money for that.

Then they delivered this new thing.

So yea, the main accusation here is: they lied to us. That was in the beginning and that is now.

I told you already. If they would have skip the "VS System is back" charade and presented this new game this year with a different name and an honest "We couldn't bring VS System back, but we tried to take something from itin this new stuff".

Everything would be fine.

But they didn't. And I'm sorry, but they marketed the box last year toward the vs system community. You can't deny that, so please, stop pretending you don't get the point.
Edited by -TK-, Jun 13 2015, 02:35 PM.
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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How did they lie if they intended on doing exactly what they said at Gencon last year? There is a very good chance they had every intention to bring back the old VS in LCG form as mentioned last year. However, there is a good chance that throughout this past year they realized it wasn't possible. Sometimes things don't go as planned you know?

I know it is a mute point trying to discuss this with you, though.
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Mordis
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BatHulk
Jun 12 2015, 07:09 PM
Which brings up my previous point. How many players at GenCon 2014 were from the Vs 1.0 community? There are barely any players here (I count less than 25 active members). So how in the world could they have sold 1000, 10000 or even 500 of these sets last year esp if it's not a booster box so you will only buy 1? How many were at the Vs Worlds last year? Was it even 100?
Your skepticism isn't unreasonable, but they absolutely sold 500-1000 (I believe it to be closer to 1000) of the boxes at Gen Con. I saw the stacks that sold out on day 1 and 2 and it was definitely hundreds per day. I was told that it was going to be similar on days 3 and 4 by a UD booth employee, but I wasn't there so I don't know. I remember the person in front of me in line buying multiple boxes. I want to say 3. I don't have any "proof" though, so you'd have to take my word for it.

Also, I've come to the realization that my/our negativity is well founded (at least we think so), but this isn't the correct venue to express it. But UD probably won't give us an official soap box when it's such a divisive issue, so oh well. ANYWHO, my apologies to anyone I've annoyed.
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kariggi
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xMr. Lemon Headx
Jun 12 2015, 05:50 PM
It is going to be great when a lot of you old vs players love the new game. All of this negativity before the game is even released is what gets me. Give it a try and THEN bash UDE if you are still of the same opinion.
At least for my part the negativity has nothing to do with how Marvel Ultimate Battles 2pcg will play, and everything to do with it not being VS compatible.

The point I thought of the new production format was to serve a dedicated but limited niche with a superior product that might not have the ease of access or broad appeal necessary to generate TCG level profits, but which would bolster the companies self tarnished reputation, while generating sustainable profits.

Buy eh, I've got plenty of other places to spend $50, I mean how many children are starving where while I fight about which corporation deserves my hard earned $50 (Just for a little perspective).
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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Exactly, why complain so much about something so trivial. I am just thankful to have any form of VS back.
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kariggi
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and we would too if it were any form of vs., but it isn't we're sad so we complain
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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You guys are ridiculous. It IS a form of VS. A lot of things are the same. I completely agree that it is very different, but there are enough similarities to say it is a form of VS. Anyways, you guys will argue until you are blue in the face. So there is no need continue in that direction.
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KardKrazy
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xMr. Lemon Headx
Jun 13 2015, 06:25 PM
...It IS a form of VS...
I'm not taking either side, but I do want to point out Lemon, that for it to be a form of Vs System it would have to be compatible with Vs System...and it isn't.

So I do understand kariggi's point of view on it.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 13 2015, 08:03 PM.
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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No it doesn't... I don't understand how you can say this is not a form of VS when they literally sat in a room with old vs cards and rules and came up with this.... Had original VS never existed, there would be no VS System 2pcg. Hence, it is very much a form of VS.

You guys are so stuck on VS 1.0 that you are blinded.
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PandaMan
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It's like asking for a chicken and being given a duck. A ducks great, but does nothing for the cockerel you want to breed it with.

When we heard they were bringing vs back people were excited at new cards, and new decks, and of new possibilities with their old collections mixing old with new. Yes we couldn't use old stuff in tournaments but at local levels it would have spiced things up.

That's why people are annoyed.

They can say it's vs inspired but it IS NOT VS.

Son of vs, spawn of vs, successor to vs, sequel to vs. Any of these naming conventions are fine, but they have called it vs system as if it's just a name to then when to others it was more than that.
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BatHulk
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-TK-
Jun 13 2015, 02:34 PM
And I'm sorry, but they marketed the box last year toward the vs system community.
No... they marketed to the gamer community, and the superhero community.

Did the boxes say "You can buy these only if you played Vs"?

And if they did market and sell to ONLY the Vs system community, I will guarantee they could not have sold 100, 500, 1000 or 10000 sets... there are not even 100 active members here.
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You can't deny that, so please, stop pretending you don't get the point.

I'm not pretending anything. I'm presenting a counter to what people are stating here and addressing accusations that have poor support.

You say they lied, I say they thought they were going to be able to release Vs 1.0 but after analysis decided against it, yet you can't seem to accept that fact. I even quoted an article in ICV2 where they said that that trial set in no way represents the actual production product they will release.

You are taking a stance of only one side without seeing the realities of how business works. That's fine, that's your opinion, but that doesn't change the reality.

If I tell you "I will give you X"... go back, do some analysis, confer with others and then they tell me that I have to give you Y, that doesn't mean that I lied, that means that I couldn't deliver on my promise because others overruled me. So you never went back on your "word" ever in your life, you are in total control of everything? That's what you seem to not be getting.

@Mordis:

Since everyone says UDE are liars, how do you know that UDE booth employee was telling you the truth? Maybe that stack was basically the same all 4 days? Even if someone in front of you bought 3, that will take a ton of those people to sell 1000. Again, in the waning days of Vs, UDE could not sell through 1200 boxes of MEV, and these were booster boxes, not precon reprint sets.

And maybe they did, regardless, even 1000 of those sets could still not pay for the development and production of the set that is coming out. There is just so much cost/overhead you guys are missing here.

And you didn't annoy anyone. I appreciate the back and forth as that's what a forum is all about. Even though I don't necessarily agree with TK, I do understand a bit where he is coming from. I just don't know if his opinion is representative of the majority of you Vs 1.0 players.

And I'm with KardKrazy, this is a form of Vs. It's not a chicken to a duck, maybe it's more chicken to turkey. While I also wish it were compatible with Vs 1.0, it doesn't have to be in order to be considered Vs. There are dozens of things I can name that are not backward compatible with their predecessor yet are considered to be the same thing. Did you guys boycott the PS4 and the XBox One?

But I'll agree that's subjective, so while some of us feel that 2PCG is still Vs and we move forward, you guys can stick to playing Vs 1.0 and hope that someone builds more fan sets because UDE is not going to. Regardless of anyone's opinions, feelings, annoyance, that's the reality... 2PCG is the next Vs.
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BatHulk
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xMr. Lemon Headx
Jun 13 2015, 05:24 PM
I am just thankful to have any form of VS back.
My feelings exactly. And if the changes helps Vs grow when it couldn't before... even better.
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Mordis
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BatHulk
Jun 13 2015, 09:18 PM
Since everyone says UDE are liars, how do you know that UDE booth employee was telling you the truth? Maybe that stack was basically the same all 4 days?
I walked past throughout the day and saw the stack dwindling. Certainly that could have been elaborate subterfuge, but I doubt it.
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