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| VS System 2PCG info released | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (26,001 Views) | |
| BatHulk | Jul 1 2015, 06:52 PM Post #346 |
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So these locations is a way that you can theme your deck even outside the affiliation aspect. |
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| Speedy92286 | Jul 1 2015, 07:05 PM Post #347 |
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Same. Also helps if you have a flood of them in your hand too. For a deck based on cards like colossus the basic locations equal pumps so I can see running a few copies of select colors. Also, thanks Psycho! |
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| plaid_warlock | Jul 1 2015, 07:12 PM Post #348 |
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The discard ability of locations to pay for things can be a good surprise. It gets around "location flood" or whatever we're calling it. The only problem is that later in the game you might run out of useful stuff to actually put in your row. I like it though and I like the cards we're seeing. According to answers to questions on Facebook, characters get auto-stunned when their DEF goes to 0. Since that's the case, Storm becomes a pretty powerful control character since she can direct stun anybody with 2 or less defense. |
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| kariggi | Jul 1 2015, 10:09 PM Post #349 |
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Hero For Hire
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Wow! Locations are terrible. A card that does nothing. Locations used to be so cool man, what happened to you guys. And where is the Theme in super-heroes not being able to use their super-powers without the right location. This feels like a mechanical restraint that further takes the game away from the genre it purports to represent. I really just wish it wasn't called vs. I understand every other super-hero card game you produced not called VS failed horribly, but guys it wasn't the name VS that sold cards, it was the game, and this aint anywhere near that. I need to find away to block this 2.0 stuff, it just frustrates me, and I really don't want to just crap on youse guys parade. |
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| BatHulk | Jul 1 2015, 10:30 PM Post #350 |
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I agree with kariggi about the flavor of the locations activating superpowers being weird... and I already stated that this mechanic is one of the most un-VS like ones. But, it's not like I have a choice... onward!! |
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| Psychotime | Jul 1 2015, 10:45 PM Post #351 |
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I think Might has the worst of it. It's very obviously a mechanical decision devoid of flavor. The other resources can have flavor when used correctly. But with Storm, using a laboratory to use her lightning powers makes zero sense. On the other hand, Banner's Influence causing Hulk to check into a library to gain some knowledge works a bit. Same with Wolverine training in the Danger Room to prepare for his next fight makes sense. Too bad the Training Ground image looks more like Cerebro. Yeah, they should have spent the time to think of something with better flavor. I think they could have just made the resources their own card type. Not have them replace locations. Also, I can't get the sneaking feeling out of my head that equipment might be gone. Someone please correct me if they've talked about them anywhere. Edited by Psychotime, Jul 1 2015, 11:07 PM.
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| Hank McCoy | Jul 1 2015, 11:02 PM Post #352 |
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Equipment has not been mentioned. And in the first preview article when they talked about card types it was Main Characters, Supporting Characters, Locations, and Plot Twists. Plus the card color (grey) is now for L1 Main Characters. Pretty sure equipment is no mas. |
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| Psychotime | Jul 1 2015, 11:20 PM Post #353 |
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That's a shame. Back to the location issue, I hope expansions can give different names to basic locations and aren't chained to the names of this current batch. Unlike Magic, they have the ability to do that without breaking the game. Especially when they start getting into cosmic characters like Silver Surfer and Galactus. Those locations aren't going to cut it, and they should do something about it. EDIT: Turns out locations are under the 4-of rule, so you can't put any number of basic locations in your deck like every other game with that type of resource system. From the facebook page:
That's pretty sound from a game design perspective. But that rule means that they can't go back on the resources. They're stuck as they are. The more I think about it, the more I think that if they were going for this kind of resource system, there's seriously no harm in just making the resource the card itself. Yeah, that's what Pokemon does, and that's pretty much the direction new VS is going. Did a quick 5 minute mockup. In a spoiler so there's no confusion. Spoiler: click to toggle Instead of shoehorning in flavor that doesn't exist, just let the resource be it's own card and make the flavor workout on it's own. If you were to activate Hulk's Smash power, pitching this card makes actual sense. You're gonna WANT to yell out "HULK SMASH" when you play this card, not a fortress. EDIT: Seems someone on the facebook page said the exact same thing I said, but didn't get an answer. Not surprising. Edited by Psychotime, Jul 2 2015, 12:26 AM.
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| KardKrazy | Jul 2 2015, 12:04 AM Post #354 |
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You always have a choice sir. In this case the choice would be not to play. I can definitely say had me and 2 other friends not bought tickets for Gen Con and secured a Hotel Room I would not go. This game is definitely looking worst than it was before for me after today's article. So I really hope I do well enough in the tourney to make enough $$ to cover my expenses. Because I'm about 99% sure I won't play it after Gen Con. |
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| Psychotime | Jul 2 2015, 12:16 AM Post #355 |
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The simplicity of the Energy card idea is so obvious that I have to wonder how it never occurred to them to go that route, and that instead they went with awkward flavor that they CAN'T CHANGE. Unless they reboot it after Gen-Con. Yeah, that'll go over well with the people who spent money on it. Maybe they'll make you buy little energy packs to fix it. Their half-baked mistake means more money for them, right? How much product did they print already? This is a game from a big name company headed for an international release by the end of the year! Good lord. This is the worst sign. Even if the game plays well and runs smoothly as a game, the attention to details like the flavor of their resource system to the half-assed graphic design do not make the game look like a well thought out product. And that makes me sad, because from the game design side they really sound like they know what they're doing. Yep, I'm turning into the rest of you guys little by little. Edited by Psychotime, Jul 2 2015, 12:33 AM.
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| x_chan | Jul 2 2015, 01:08 AM Post #356 |
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I'm glad I was able to cancel my preorder. This "locations" are just the icing of the cake. It all makes me wonder why is there a resource row at all in the first place. It worked amazingly on the original VS System, and created interesting mechanics like the Inhumans. This new game is shitting on it big time. If they were going to go the superpower routte, and make locations bland, why even include them? Why not go for the energy route, like Psychome said. It would have worked a lot better in flavour and would have allowed the complete removal of the resource row. Because if they were going to have it as useless as it is right now, why not go the Hearthsone way and just give people resources at the start of their turn equal to the round? Unless plot twist have a threshold cost (which I seriously doubt), there's no need for a resource row at all. People is just drawing 2 cards and discarding one..... I feel they felt the need to keep the locations and the resource row themes in to make their new game resemble VS. But in the process they wroke both games. What we have is something that doesn't work at all and it feels forced. They should have named this game something else and work it from scratch, creating its own logic and system. Right now it's a half cooked game, based on a mix of a lot of other games (being VS the least of them...) and has no identity at all. This won't make it past Xmass. I wish some of the guys that are going to Gen Con would spit on the VS stuff there, just to let them know how I feel. Edited by x_chan, Jul 2 2015, 01:10 AM.
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| plaid_warlock | Jul 2 2015, 01:22 AM Post #357 |
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I'm a little confused on the sudden location hatred. When the rules changes came out, they basically told us that locations would work this way. This became especially clear once we started seeing the main character cards. So we've had a pretty decent amount of time knowing that locations now function like MtG basic lands. Do I like this change? Not really but this isn't some sudden thing that they just sprang on us today. We've been told for awhile that this is how the game works now. |
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| Psychotime | Jul 2 2015, 01:26 AM Post #358 |
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Threshold costs are gone, they said that. Doesn't mean that they CAN'T make cards that use the concept, but for the main game, it no longer exists. You don't even need the resource row to do threshold costs. |
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| x_chan | Jul 2 2015, 01:53 AM Post #359 |
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I guess we had hope locations had some kind of text on it with ongoing powers, so they had a use outside fueling superpowers. Not this sad thing. I really think the game would have been a lot better without a resource row. Just discard your energy cards from hand as generic plot twists to activate superpowers. It would have been a lot more flavourful and less complicated. The resources could have been granted at the start of the build face, like many other games do. This is trying to force stuff from the original game into the new one without giving it too much thought. If they were going to completelly rehaul it, why not go full out and create it's own resource system that synergizes with the game better. We all know by now that the only resemblance to the old game is the title. Why not empower that so there's no confusing with the old one at all? |
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| Psychotime | Jul 2 2015, 02:15 AM Post #360 |
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I feel that everyone should acknowledge what the new resource system really resembles: the Pokemon TCG. For anyone who hasn't played Pokemon, you don't use resource cards to play anything, but to pay for the abilities of the monsters you have in play. That's what new VS is doing. They just streamlined it and made most characters not use them at all. With that in mind, it's not impossible for them to create location cards that sit in the row with ongoing effects. It's pretty simple to do and Pokemon does it all the time. My problem with the locations is the weak execution of a solid idea. I needed a full understanding of how it works before I could make a valid argument against it, and now I have it. The mechanics are sound, but the final result is awkwardly flavored and looks half-baked because of it. The more I question that execution the worse they look as designers. EDIT: DAMMIT! I'm reading through the facebook page and the person in charge of the page really knows their stuff. This whole location/energy flavor issue confounds me. Maybe there's some garbage from the higher ups that they had to deal with. As a person who works in entertainment (cartoons, specifically), I'm very familiar with creatives being shackled by idiots in suits calling the shots. Edited by Psychotime, Jul 2 2015, 02:27 AM.
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