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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (26,022 Views)
-TK-
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kariggi
May 27 2015, 01:57 PM
'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first—verdict afterwards.'

'Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. 'The idea of having the sentence first!'

'Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.

'I won't!' said Alice.

Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'
If this is for me, I'm sorry to tell you that we had everything we need to make a sentence back then.

If you weren't able to see it, that's your problem. Not mine.

I was just asking if now that everyone can see the obvious I'm allowed to say it without being labeled a fool like the last time.
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-TK-
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bortrea
May 27 2015, 02:19 PM
The 451 remaining hard core VS players, myself included that have clung to the corpse of this dead game don't really amount to a very impressive market to pander to.
And still, they asked for those 451 remaining players money last year. And they are still trying to get those players money.

Cause that is the only reason to revive the dead logo of VS.
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Dog
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cometdave
May 27 2015, 02:34 PM
My complaint isn't with the mechanics of this new game, it is in the fact that it is a new game and thus shouldn't have been called VS. Nor should Upper Deck have been promoting it like it was just an updated/cleaned up version of VS. This is not the same beast, similar, but in the same way that VS is similar to MTG (a totally different game). Here I thought Elvis was coming out on stage, or at least an Elvis impersonator, and instead it was Elvis Costello. Now I may dig the concert regardless, but they should have been clearer up front.
It could be that they honestly didn't anticipate this many changes at first. Then they began tugging, asking "what about this," and things just kept mutating.
Edited by Dog, May 27 2015, 02:51 PM.
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bortrea
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They are being clear on this up front. Before the launch at Gen Con you have been informed of main facets of this game. Enough to be complaining about it. You now know enough to decide wheather or not to attend Gen Con for the purposes of just seeing this new VS game or not. You can still wait for the actual product to debute and then for the product to actually hit the shelf. None of this has happened yet. You haven't paid for anything or lost money to a deception hidden in the dark shadowy corners of evil game companies lusting after your money. They are being clear and disclosing the details before you purchase. They were clear about last year too. It was not to bring back old dead VS, it was to see if enough interest lay in rebooting the game, and we all know that reboots change everything. But I respect your right to opinion. to see "Plans within Plans" and be determined to be pissed off because its not a pure VS reincarnation. I get that. I just don't see it that way or aggree. I believe this does ressemble VS in important ways. And I don't think it has any more similarities to other games such as MTG and WOW than does any of the other games out there. When classic VS debuted it was called a MTG knock off then. That's been since proven to not be true. Then WOW was belittled as a VS knock off, but that was proved to be pointless too. Now we upgrade the sacred classic VS game with changes to address many of the problems that lead to its death. So now its a the same old mantra of complaints. We'll just have to agree to disagree. But that's alright. I still love classic VS and will continue to play it, and I also understand the passion the hard core diehards have for the game. I just refuse to stay stuck in the mud of the frozen past and not move forward with necessary progress and change to make an old dead game viable and playable in a new and progressive changed market again. Its the future were are in now, not the past. No going back, either.

I will continue to look forward to this new VS game and will most likely enjoy it in new and different ways. I'm tired of reruns. I want a new frontier.
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nedleeds
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As somebody who gave them money for 3 sets of VS. System last year at Gencon they can shove this new game up their rear end.

The number one problem I have is that they are scavenging the VS. System name and applying it to a new game, thus shutting the door of it even being sold off to a capable game developer.

These clowns have cleared a forest trying different game systems and royally screwing it up at every turn.

Enjoy buying the next run of Marvel Ultimate Battles TCG, Super Hero Squad TCG and Marvel Superstars.
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Dog
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nedleeds
May 27 2015, 03:17 PM
These clowns have cleared a forest trying different game systems and royally screwing it up at every turn.

Enjoy buying the next run of Marvel Ultimate Battles TCG, Super Hero Squad TCG and Marvel Superstars.
People seem to like Legendary. Super Hero Squad was fun while it lasted. Marvel Superstars never actually came out.
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-TK-
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bortrea
May 27 2015, 03:11 PM
They are being clear on this up front. Before the launch at Gen Con you have been informed of main facets of this game. Enough to be complaining about it. You now know enough to decide wheather or not to attend Gen Con for the purposes of just seeing this new VS game or not. You can still wait for the actual product to debute and then for the product to actually hit the shelf. None of this has happened yet. You haven't paid for anything or lost money to a deception hidden in the dark shadowy corners of evil game companies lusting after your money. They are being clear and disclosing the details before you purchase. They were clear about last year too. It was not to bring back old dead VS, it was to see if enough interest lay in rebooting the game, and we all know that reboots change everything. But I respect your right to opinion. to see "Plans within Plans" and be determined to be pissed off because its not a pure VS reincarnation. I get that. I just don't see it that way or aggree. I believe this does ressemble VS in important ways. And I don't think it has any more similarities to other games such as MTG and WOW than does any of the other games out there. When classic VS debuted it was called a MTG knock off then. That's been since proven to not be true. Then WOW was belittled as a VS knock off, but that was proved to be pointless too. Now we upgrade the sacred classic VS game with changes to address many of the problems that lead to its death. So now its a the same old mantra of complaints. We'll just have to agree to disagree. But that's alright. I still love classic VS and will continue to play it, and I also understand the passion the hard core diehards have for the game. I just refuse to stay stuck in the mud of the frozen past and not move forward with necessary progress and change to make an old dead game viable and playable in a new and progressive changed market again. Its the future were are in now, not the past. No going back, either.

I will continue to look forward to this new VS game and will most likely enjoy it in new and different ways. I'm tired of reruns. I want a new frontier.
I'm sorry but there is no arguing about this being anything related to VS.

If anything is wow tgc with a couple of borrowed mechanics.

That position is not defendable. Core mechanics are completely missing. You are free to play soccer with your hands and score in a basket, but that's not soccer. Doesn't matter if you keep saying that, like in soccer, punching your opponent is wrong.

This is not VS.

Play it if you like and, if you like, enjoy the fact that it reminds you vs somehow, but there is no arguing about it being VS in any form.

Moreover, I'm not describing some secret conspirancy: I'm just stating the obvious. I didn't imagine them promising us the return of VS, I didn't imagine them making money on the old VS players (Cause I hope you don't want to sell me that a relevant number of new players bought that pack for 50 bucks. It's simply not true), and I didn't imagine them keeping the name of a dead game instead of coming up with a new one.

Those are facts and no one can honestly say that the more simple interpretation here is that they are trying to lure old VS System players into this game.

And, FYI, I'm not stuck with anything. I still play VS sometime cause it's an excuse to meet old friends, but VS is not more relevant to me that the Super Mario Bros game I used to play when I was 6 years old. I just don't like UDE making fun of old players like they are.
Edited by -TK-, May 27 2015, 05:35 PM.
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kariggi
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-TK-
May 27 2015, 02:39 PM
kariggi
May 27 2015, 01:57 PM
'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first—verdict afterwards.'

'Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. 'The idea of having the sentence first!'

'Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.

'I won't!' said Alice.

Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'
If this is for me, I'm sorry to tell you that we had everything we need to make a sentence back then.

If you weren't able to see it, that's your problem. Not mine.

I was just asking if now that everyone can see the obvious I'm allowed to say it without being labeled a fool like the last time.
No

and I didn't consider you a fool for your comments before. I just wanted to retain a glimmer of hope until enough information was made available to realize what this really was.

I was ok with them making changes in the game, and not being allowed to use my old cards in tournaments, but I'm sad that it is clear now that I can't use my old cards (with these cards) or the new cards (with my old cards) at all.

If any of this was meant for you, me, and those of us disappointed in this it is:

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'

Which is how I feel about this New Game parading around in VS clothing. I'm just happy I got to know what was between its legs before I paid for it, and found out it wasn't what I thought I was taking home at all.

I hope its a good game, and people enjoy playing it. I'll keep shuffling up my real VS cards whenever a friend wants a game, but no one I know is going to buy into this, no compatibility, no sale.
Edited by kariggi, May 27 2015, 06:27 PM.
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-TK-
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kariggi
May 27 2015, 06:26 PM
-TK-
May 27 2015, 02:39 PM
kariggi
May 27 2015, 01:57 PM
'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first—verdict afterwards.'

'Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. 'The idea of having the sentence first!'

'Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.

'I won't!' said Alice.

Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'
If this is for me, I'm sorry to tell you that we had everything we need to make a sentence back then.

If you weren't able to see it, that's your problem. Not mine.

I was just asking if now that everyone can see the obvious I'm allowed to say it without being labeled a fool like the last time.
No

and I didn't consider you a fool for your comments before. I just wanted to retain a glimmer of hope until enough information was made available to realize what this really was.

I was ok with them making changes in the game, and not being allowed to use my old cards in tournaments, but I'm sad that it is clear now that I can't use my old cards (with these cards) or the new cards (with my old cards) at all.

If any of this was meant for you, me, and those of us disappointed in this it is:

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'

Which is how I feel about this New Game parading around in VS clothing. I'm just happy I got to know what was between its legs before I paid for it, and found out it wasn't what I thought I was taking home at all.

I hope its a good game, and people enjoy playing it. I'll keep shuffling up my real VS cards whenever a friend wants a game, but no one I know is going to buy into this, no compatibility, no sale.
So I was kind of a fool in not understanding your point.

Sorry about that.
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Mordis
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It's certainly possible that 1-3 drops could be "viable" with the old cards depending on abilities. Beyond 3 seems pretty unlikely, and even 3 could be pushing it. I imagine at least a portion of the Plot Twists will translate OK as well.
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Kazaam
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What does everyone think the chances of UDE getting the DC license back are? I imagine if the product did quite well, DC would be interested in giving it to them again? I have no idea. I wonder how well the relaunch would have to do in order for DC to consider it. The game came out when I was a kid and although many of my friends and I picked up a bunch of cards when it came out, it didn't have much staying power and I never played it extensively. One of the things I really loved about it originally was that it had both Marvel and DC. I'll be sad if that aspect never gets to return.
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OMB
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Kazaam
May 28 2015, 05:54 AM
What does everyone think the chances of UDE getting the DC license back are? I imagine if the product did quite well, DC would be interested in giving it to them again? I have no idea. I wonder how well the relaunch would have to do in order for DC to consider it. The game came out when I was a kid and although many of my friends and I picked up a bunch of cards when it came out, it didn't have much staying power and I never played it extensively. One of the things I really loved about it originally was that it had both Marvel and DC. I'll be sad if that aspect never gets to return.
I'd put the chances somewhere between "Slim" and "None".
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BatHulk
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First off... I can't believe VS is back.

Secondly... after reading the rule changes and Danny's excellent explanation... this was the only way it could come back.

Look, I know many of you love the old Vs (Hi Kariggi!) but what Danny said at the beginning is really why they couldn't give you back the old Vs... it was just not accessible enough.

(emphasis mine)
Quote:
 

When we discussed the design with Jason, we all kept coming back to one point: accessibility.

Despite all of the original Vs. System’s great qualities, it was a relatively inaccessible game. It had lots of basic rules to learn, like how formations work, stun+breakthrough endurance loss, flipping up Plot Twists or playing them from hand, resource costs and threshold costs, team attacks and reinforcement, one free recovery, etc.

It was also challenging to play the game (let alone play well) since there were so many things to consider (especially the formation step, checking your face downs again and again, and going down various attack option mental flow charts). And because the game was challenging, this often led to slower turns and longer games, meaning that even choosing to play required commitment.

I should stop right here for a moment and make something clear. When I say that the original game was hard, I don’t mean that it was hard for everyone. But it was hard for enough players — and too hard for many potential players — that it hurt the overall lifespan of the game.

So the goal for the new Vs. System was to find ways to make the game more inviting to as large an audience as possible, while retaining the core mechanics that made original Vs. System so great in the first place.

We've disagreed about this in the past... but these were the things I observed as a player, judge and TO of the one of the largest Vs player bases in the US (I think it can be argued that SoCal actually had the largest player turnouts). It just wasn't open enough to casual players.

I would see the same people lose every tournament and then stop showing up. Or they wouldn't want to play in tournaments because of the "pros". Whereas in Magic, I see 10 year olds playing it because it was "easier" to win.

This example has been used before but it's why more people can play checkers and not chess.

Okay... now that I've beaten that dead horse I do want to say this, at least there is some type of Vs back out there.

And for you die-hards, there are still the old Vs cards... I'm sure many of you can take these new "2pcg" and find some way to modify them to the Vs 1.0. Personally, I'm going to try to figure out how to make the old Vs cards work in Vs 2.0.

As for the whys of the rule changes... I'm sure most of you know why (I commented on some of them in the article). It's stuff we've talked about in the past, the things that take too much time or make the decision tree bigger.

I'm excited to see the new cards... to play the new game... I couldn't even get into the Legendary Marvel DBG or Crypto's DC DBG... but I will buy a box of these and any expansions they come out with.

Who's with me? I'll see you at Majestix in Orange on the day of the release (can't make it to GenCon)!
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conykchameleon
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BatHulk
May 28 2015, 11:44 PM
Lots of truth
Wise words from a true VS veteran. I don't understand all the weird negativity surrounding these announcements.
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Dog
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OMB
May 28 2015, 07:50 AM
Kazaam
May 28 2015, 05:54 AM
What does everyone think the chances of UDE getting the DC license back are? I imagine if the product did quite well, DC would be interested in giving it to them again? I have no idea. I wonder how well the relaunch would have to do in order for DC to consider it. The game came out when I was a kid and although many of my friends and I picked up a bunch of cards when it came out, it didn't have much staying power and I never played it extensively. One of the things I really loved about it originally was that it had both Marvel and DC. I'll be sad if that aspect never gets to return.
I'd put the chances somewhere between "Slim" and "None".
Yeah, the DC Deckbuilding Game does good business. I can't see them yanking the license from Cryptozoic.
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