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| VS System 2PCG info released | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (26,021 Views) | |
| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 04:11 PM Post #46 |
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Heh... just ordered the DC DBG and Marvel Legendary on Amazon Prime Same Day shipping because I want to try them out this weekend. I haven't played games in years... and it figures that VS 2.0 would get me back on the wagon. |
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| Wallywest1988 | May 29 2015, 04:11 PM Post #47 |
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Are we even sure Cryptozoics license for DC is exclusive? Marvel shells out their license to multiple companies obviously. UDE and WizKids. I am not sure Crypto can even stop DC from selling a license to UDE. I doubt this will happen but who knows. It seems they are much more comfortable pushing their own licenses at the moment. Firefly, Crow, Alien, etc. Since they have mentioned this very many times. I wouldn't hold my breath for a DC license in the near future and I will still play new VS without but if they indeed make sets for their current licenses and the game is flourishing. There is a almost a certainty they would eventually persue it. Edited by Wallywest1988, May 29 2015, 04:12 PM.
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| Wallywest1988 | May 29 2015, 04:16 PM Post #48 |
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Both games are great! DC is super easy to pick up for any friend group and learn and play in minutes. Not super intricate but the expansions helped. Great for non card players and girlfriends/wives joining in. Legendary is the best gameplay. On par if not better than Ascension and the better DBGs. Setup is a bit longer and learning takes a little longer as well. Worth it however. Might not have the patience in some casual circles to give the time its deserved. Replay value with the expansions is inf though. Never the same game twice. That said the expansions for both games add so much. If you mildly enjoy any of them get the Xpacs. Well worth it! |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 04:40 PM Post #49 |
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Thanks Wally. I was just going to buy one and based on reviews, comparison, price and ease of entry, DC was the way to go... but being a fan of both DC and Marvel, I had to buy both. Funny thing is, 12 years later, my kids are now old enough to play so we'll see which one they like better (I assume DC since it's easier to pick up and my son is Batman-mark like his dad). |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 04:45 PM Post #50 |
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On the DC license, considering that Crypto's is a DBG and Vs is a 2PCG, it is possible for UDE to get a license for DC depending on the wording/exclusivity of Crypto's licensing agreement. But I think it will all depend on how successful VS 2.0 is. If it sells well, then UDE might be able to throw some money at DC to get a license. My first goal with this new Vs is to try to figure out a multiplayer/team play mode like we did with Vs 1.0. |
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| -TK- | May 29 2015, 06:14 PM Post #51 |
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I don't really care about the accessibility. If what they wanted to give us wasn't VS, and this isn't it, they could just never talk about it and start a new game. They have already done it at least a couple of time, and failed at least in one of them. I wouldn't have tried it, but I would have been ok with it. Instead, they announced the VS come back, spilled money out from the old players with that crappy box last year and they are still trying to get old players on board. This I find unforgivable. Try the new game if you like. Jut don't pretend this is VS in any form, or that UDE has been fair in their announcement. Cause that's just not true. |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 07:16 PM Post #52 |
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@-TK- What is Vs anyways? How is it defined? To me, it's a thematic card game centered around a comic book team where you fight another team. Sure, not all the aspects of the original Vs engine are still there... but a number of them are. If anyone remembers, Vs was actually evolved from the WildStorms card game and carried over a number of mechanics (Plot Twists, Range, Flight). This version, Vs 2PCG or Vs 2.0, still retains (IMO) much of what made Vs fun, namely dropping characters on the board and attacking your opponent (or defending against them). You can't say you don't care about accessibility because that speaks to the longevity of a game. That's the reason Pokemon and Magic are still going... because the masses can play it. I understand you want the Vs 1.0, but that ship has sailed. And maybe you're right, they should have not called this Vs... but that's UDE's right as the owner of the game engine to evolve (or devolve) it to suit their needs, which is really to sell as much product to as many people as possible. I remember when WoW came out and many a Vs player jumped ship to Wow because more people played it. The hard core comic guys didn't stick with it because it wasn't comic-based, but gamers did. And that's who you want to buy the game... comic book fans AND gamers alike. In the end, none of us own the right to determine what Vs is... UDE created it, UDE owns it... and if UDE wants to release another game with that name, they can do so. I don't get how there is some type of sin committed here... seriously... it's just a game. |
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| -TK- | May 29 2015, 08:59 PM Post #53 |
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Lol, your definition of VS is so broad that Legendary makes the cut. Is Legendary VS System? Is this Game Vs System? You can't use your definition of VS simply cause basically everything makes the cut. For every meaningful definition of VS this new game is not VS. Call an apple a cake if you want, but don't come here pretending there is sense in what you do. I'm perfectly allowed to state "I don't care about accessibility". You know whay? Cause I honestly don't care: we are not talking about accessibility here. If they felt VS wasn't what they need in this moment they could have just leave it where it was. If for them VS was accessible enought, they could just have forget about it. What they are doing is making fun of vs system players. You may be ok with it, it's your business. Buy the new game, have fun and hope UDE doesn't screw this up like basically every game they ever touched. But I don't like when people make fun of me, and I have every right to say so. They commited no sin, they are just a crappy company. And they don't get to be crappy and to get good advertising from the people they so lightly make fun of. Simple as that. |
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| minivan987 | May 29 2015, 09:04 PM Post #54 |
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This wasn't directed at me per say but I hold a similar view to -TK- as I'm sure many others do so I'll share my thoughts on your questions BatHulk.
Games are defined by their rule sets not by their "backstory". VS is/was the engine the "system" in the name "VS System". Monopoly is still called Monopoly whether you're playing the original game with the standard theme or you bought the Star Wars 20th anniversary edition. The Shoe piece and the Millennium Falcon piece are functionally the same. Perhaps an even better analogy is to discuss the concept of an actual deck of playing cards. With a standard deck you can play all sorts of different games using the same components but it wouldn't be right to tell someone you're playing Poker when you're actually playing a game of Hearts. If you said you were "playing cards", well that would still be an accurate description for either case though. Smaller changes to games and rule sets can certainly allow one to characterize games into groups or by a single name and people still understand what you mean and it wouldn't necessarily be improper to characterize them as "the same thing" at a higher level like I did above. This usually only works though for more proper names when the goal of said games and their variants are effectively the same. A great example of this is Poker. Omaha and Texas are two different styles of hold 'em poker, they play pretty much the same there's just more cards in one variant. 5-card Draw poker is still poker just like those two but falls into a different category. You could still tell someone you're playing poker if you were playing any of those variants and they would generally understand what's going on and the goal of the game but it would be improper to tell someone you're playing hold 'em style poker when you're playing 5-card draw.
VS 1.0 and VS:2PCG share some things as outlined in the FAQ thing yes. But I don't see how one can change the ultimate goal of the game along with a ton of other aspects of how things are handled and still claim it is "similar" at a low enough level to try and sell anyone that they're really "almost the same". Some people are really salty because the statement "we're bringing back/relaunching VS" was used and it really ended up just being a flat out lie. The statement was NOT "we're bringing back the name VS". The people who might be extra mad are those who threw in some money to help bring us this "relaunch" of the game by showing their support for it only to not be given what they thought was being promised to them by showing their support. This is a card game. It has Marvel superheroes and eventually some other IPs assuming it gains enough economic interest to be expanded upon. This new thing is not a "relaunched VS system" as some bought into. Upper Deck is allowed to do whatever they want with their trademarks of course so they can use the name however they see fit but this new thing isn't the same game. It really doesn't look to even be all that similar. That does not mean it cannot be a fun or good game however, but some may feel too spurned to be willing to try or just not interested in the way this new game sounds like it will play and that is perfectly alright. I'm not mad because the good name of VS System is being besmirched by this new game. I'm not actually mad at all since I didn't expect things to even get this close to the game being resurrected or waste any of my money on the LCG thing from last years GenCon. But I can certainly understand how some people who fell into either of those categories could be perturbed. Additionally some may feel insulted that Upper Deck is playing on the name VS System with this new release and trying to suck in those of us remaining in the VS community into this new game in what can appear to some to just be a ploy in the naming convention of this game to dupe some folks. "Look VS is back! just a ton of the rules are different, and the win condition is entirely altered" And for the record... I do intend to give this new game a try because why not it's a superhero card game and I've definitely spent $50 and more on way worse investments than a box of 400 pieces of cardboard. Edited by minivan987, May 29 2015, 09:17 PM.
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| Dog | May 29 2015, 09:13 PM Post #55 |
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1. Make fun of a tiny group of people who already hate your company. 2. ????? 3. Profit Makes sense. |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 10:04 PM Post #56 |
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Not really, Legendary is still a deck building game, whereas VS is card game. I would say the DC DBG is closer to VS 2.0 than Legendary because it focuses on a single hero.
It's really semantics. It's still Vs, just not the Vs you want. In reality, only UDE is allowed to make that distinction because UDE created the Vs engine/card game. Technically, it's not the same as Vs System 1.0 but that doesn't mean it's NOT Vs. Look at Magic during Alpha and now. Look at Pokemon WOTC vs now... changes happen.
I think you're making a big leap saying that UDE is making fun of Vs players. That's your opinion but again, it's just a game. Maybe as a player, you think you are being insulted but as a company, their goal isn't to ridicule anyone, it's to make a product that will be successful and to be successful it has to sell in large numbers... not Vs 1.0 numbers.
If they didn't commit a sin, then why do you say what they have done is "unforgivable"? I'm sorry... but in *my* opinion, you seem to be taking this much harder than others... and I was just trying to point out the positives of why UDE did what they did. As a business person, a business owner, a former tournament organizer, and even a player... I see the other side of what UDE has to deal with, and I just hope that maybe you'll give it a chance despite the technicality of semantics. If not, then as often as it is said, we agree to disagree. Danny Mandel put it best:
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| -TK- | May 29 2015, 10:16 PM Post #57 |
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Lol. You know what's fun? That they already profit on vs system players when they sold the pack last year. I'l repeat it: they already made money on the old vs system players. I know people that tend to answer in this sarcastic way usually have some problem understanding basic concepts, so I'll ask some other users here to help me. Can someone find a different weay to explain this concept to Dog? Maybe if a lot of people keep telling him this obvious thing he'll understand. I doubt it, but everything can happen. |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 10:22 PM Post #58 |
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@minivan: Instead of quoting, I'll just respond to some of your salient points. I disagree that a game is only defined by it rule sets. Rules can change, to me the game is defined by its overall purpose, a card game with constructed decks that are thematic in both mechanics and flavor centered around a superhero theme with two players battling against each other. A win condition of endurance loss vs your main character wounded to its max isn't all that different or else people would have said all those decks that had alternate win conditions are not really "Vs decks". As for your Poker analogy, it's actually appropriate here... there are Hold Em players who refuse to play 5-card draw or even Omaha... because to them... that's NOT Poker. To much of the world, because of TV coverage of WSOP and the like, the definitive poker game is Hold Em. But we all know that prior to that, Hold Em wasn't even played in Poker rooms, it was Stud or Draw. So think of Vs 2.0/2PCG as Hold Em and Vs 1.0 as Stud or Draw. They are both the "same" game, with differences in mechanics. I realize that may be too simplistic, but that's how I look at it. And I agree with the second part of your post in regards to how people feel what UDE is doing is not fair. All I'm trying to say is I don't think there is any malice here. Do you guys really feel like Jason Brenner, Danny Mandel and company are trying to "cheat" the players here? They love Vs as much as you guys and their goal was really to try to bring this game back and make it successful. Think about it, it's been almost 12 years since Vs came out (it was previewed late 2003) and almost 7 years since we last saw a new set. I never thought it would come back, even if they "fixed" it. And here it is. To me, that's something to be excited about and to look forward to... instead of complaining about how it's *not* Vs, let's just try it out and see. And if you refuse to, that's okay too, you still have tons of old cards to use, the player created sets and maybe you can modify these new cards to play in the Vs 1.0 system. Where is stubarnes? |
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| -TK- | May 29 2015, 10:28 PM Post #59 |
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I agree: someone here is playing semantic. Just not me. You started your previous post pointing out that: "To me, it's a thematic card game centered around a comic book team where you fight another team." I showed you that following this definition everything is VS System. According to every single definition of VS System that makes sense, this game is not VS System. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. It may be a good game, and for the couple of years UDE is going to support it, it may even be amazing. But it's not VS System. And I've played magic since the beginning. It's still pretty much the same game. There is no comparison with this situation. As a company, UDE is completely free to do whatever they like. As a customer, I'm perfectly free to give them all the bad advertising they deserve. Errors can be unforgivable, not only sins. If a restaurant serves me shit in a dish and call it chocolate, that's unforgivable. No a sin, but unforgivable none the less. If this game can be important enought for people like you to defend it, it sure can be important enought for me to criticize. |
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| BatHulk | May 29 2015, 10:44 PM Post #60 |
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Fair enough. Just trying to be positive. Stuff is better when we focus on the good things. |
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