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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,985 Views)
Speedy92286
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Yeah it seems weenie decks have the advantage without the huge jump in power. Hawkeye can take out Emma with his power can costs 4 less. If abom attacks Ant Man and you play savage surprise both go down. The only advantage higher level characters have is more health but SC's like Loki might be too easy too take out if so many low cost characters are this good.
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Hank McCoy
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Ant Man, while good, does not feel broken to me. Exhaust your 1 drop (essentially) to feed the Shrink, then attack with anybody that can stun him to KO him. Essentially a 1 time use, so good but not broken to me.
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KardKrazy
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x_chan
Jul 17 2015, 07:34 PM
If Antman prevents attackers to ready, he is going to be spammed in all kind of decks. There's no energy or loyalty restriction in his power, and undercurving seems to be the best way, as the more protectors you have, the harder it will be to reach your MC.
Agreed.

I am extremely interested in seeing the OCR Definition of "Cancelling Combat".
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 17 2015, 08:16 PM.
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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The attacker will not ready.
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KardKrazy
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Hank McCoy
Jul 17 2015, 08:12 PM
Ant Man, while good, does not feel broken to me. Exhaust your 1 drop (essentially) to feed the Shrink, then attack with anybody that can stun him to KO him. Essentially a 1 time use, so good but not broken to me.
You have to think of all the shenanigans that can take place if he is just a walking FFP. Just the thought of him giving him Flight via an effect and protecting all your back row characters hurts my head. Let alone if there is the ability to recover a character prior to your recovery phase. He could be a major stalling tool to manipulate combat if the attacker doesn't get to ready.

And BH just because the attacker would get to ready doesn't make Antman useless. We've seen effects that state "the first time "this character" attacks" so you could utilize Antman to wash those effects away essentially.
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KardKrazy
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xMr. Lemon Headx
Jul 17 2015, 08:35 PM
The attacker will not ready.
Was this confirmed and if so where? If he truly does stop the attacker dead in their tracks he is going to be ridiculous and that Avengers PT is gonna be bananas.

EDIT: Unless combat stoppage runs rampant in this game. Then in that case he will just be the norm.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 17 2015, 08:46 PM.
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Hank McCoy
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As I understand it as soon as he takes 1 wound he is gone, so not sure how a recover effect would work - only thing would be something like "Ignore the next wound this character receives."
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KardKrazy
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Hank McCoy
Jul 17 2015, 08:39 PM
As I understand it as soon as he takes 1 wound he is gone, so not sure how a recover effect would work - only thing would be something like "Ignore the next wound this character receives."
Ah, I didn't think the KO part came until the recovery phase where you KO all stunned characters with wounds equal to their health. But if the KO happens immediately then yeah there is no saving him unless there is an effect like you are speaking of. If the KO doesn't happen till the Recovery Phase then there can easily be an effect that says, "Main: "Remove a wound counter from a character."
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 17 2015, 08:45 PM.
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Hank McCoy
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Good point - will have to wait till next Friday when the rules release. I could most definitely be wrong on that point.
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Psychotime
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I haven't seen any confirmation, but I'm seriously hoping that the "attacker readies if there's no longer a legal defender" rule is gone for good. It never made sense and made evasion such a giant pain in the ass to play correctly.

I don't think that Ant-Man here or Think Again actually address that issue. They aren't removing characters from a combat, they're literally canceling the combat and not letting it resolve.

To be honest, that looks like an effect that could have been done in old VS and still worked under that game's rules.

From the Marvel Origins rulebook.

Quote:
 
• If an attacker or defender is stunned or removed from play
before the attack resolves, it is no longer part of the attack.
• If the attacker is no longer part of the attack, the attack is
canceled. For team attacks, the attack will still continue unless
all attackers are removed from the attack.
• If an attacker is no longer part of a team attack, its ATK is not
included in the team’s ATK.
• If the defender is no longer part of the attack, the attack is
canceled and the attacker(s) ready so they can attack again.


The effect would cancel the attack under it's own effect, not from a trigger under the normal game rules. So yeah, it looks like it's similar to Force Field Projection.


I disagree with the notion that such an effect is automatically unbalanced. In old VS, it is. Good lord is it unbalanced in old VS.

New VS has redone the stat curve, added health, made combat actions trickier, made range stronger, and made flight weaker. You can't look at combat the same way. Balance is about context.

Can you totally screw over a team attack? Absolutely! But notice how the new restrictions on team attacks makes it much less crippling to cancel?

Can you screw over a high drop attacker? Absolutely! But notice how much the stat curve has changed that it doesn't affect big swings nearly as much as it would then? And that stat curve changes how often team attacks need to happen, as well! These changes reinforce each other!

A team-stamped plot twist that cancels combats is not unbalanced in this new game for the reasons stated above.

A 2/2 that cancels the first attack attempt against it is not unbalanced by any means in this game, and arguably could have worked in old VS. The attacking player knows it's coming and will act accordingly.
Edited by Psychotime, Jul 17 2015, 09:44 PM.
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KardKrazy
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Psychotime
Jul 17 2015, 09:19 PM
...You can't look at combat the same way. Balance is about context.
I do agree with that but I am looking at it from what we know thus far about this game. I think if his effect is a "rare" occurrence in this game he will be utilized a lot to stall people's turns out (especially with Flight and in the Front Row). However, if his effect is the "norm" then oh well, it won't matter as every team/deck is gonna have some way of stalling out combat.
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BatHulk
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I think they covered this but as soon as wound counters equal health, KO... you don't KO during recovery like old Vs, because in this Vs, you recover all stunned characters during Recovery.
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KardKrazy
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Hank McCoy
Jul 17 2015, 08:59 PM
Good point - will have to wait till next Friday when the rules release. I could most definitely be wrong on that point.

BatHulk
 
I think they covered this but as soon as wound counters equal health, KO... you don't KO during recovery like old Vs, because in this Vs, you recover all stunned characters during Recovery.
BH is correct. I went back and triple checked the Rules Primer and was able to locate where they stated this.

"Many Characters only have 1 Health so they get KO’d immediately when stunned."

So there we go. At least that tones down Ant-Man a bit as there is no recovery tricks to keep him around. Unless of course you can give Health to a character.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 18 2015, 12:16 AM.
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Psychotime
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Seems like a difficult thing to do without equipment.

I know that it's not overtly stated, but I'm very disappointed by the apparent removal of equipment cards for this base set.
Edited by Psychotime, Jul 18 2015, 02:55 AM.
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Speedy92286
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I agree. Equipment can be put back in easily. Hopefully we get a few equipments in the next set. They might have to design them to be more passive because of the new stat curve though (+X/+0 or +0/+X would be amazing as a 1 cost or 0 cost) but maybe they found a way to balance them?

As for cards giving more health, maybe there could be plot twists that add one health for the turn so you can save your guy? Also probably next set because thst mighr be slightly OP and everyone would be using 4 copies.

On a side note I hope the next card isn't an Avenger. Other teams need love!
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