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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,981 Views)
Speedy92286
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KardKrazy
Jul 22 2015, 01:22 PM
bortrea
Jul 22 2015, 04:16 AM
KardKrazy
Jul 21 2015, 07:31 PM
So I just found out the comprehensive rules document is eight whopping pages. That is...laughable to say the least. I have a feeling there is going to be so much that isn't properly explained. That or the game is really that ridiculously simple. Which would be disappointing as well.
No one from UDE said that the rules being posted this Friday were the comprehensive rules document. They merely stated that it would summerize the rules already published in parts in different preview articles into one document. Its no different than the small rules pamphlet that came in The Hellboy Essential Collection set. And as far as I can tell they are a simple straight forward set of rules defining an easy game to learn, but a game that will require a lot of mastery to get all the strategies and tactics under your belt. This game has the very real appearance of serious variety and depth in how you can play it. I am sure a comprehensive rules document will be compliled soon enough. It will become a tool for judges I'm sure, as the last one did for VS 1.0. This is a launch of a new game at a gaming convention. UDE may have issues as a company, but Danny Mandel, the head designer is not a hack, He designed the original VS game and many other important card systems. Trust me, this is not his first rodeo. Its going to work. In the words of Douglas Adams from the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy..."Don't Panic".
Ah, that makes me feel much better. I was originally told the OCR was what was being posted Friday. If it is just like a quick guide then yeah 8 pages is DEFINITELY understandable. [coolguy]
Jeff made it sound like the full rules but we shall see.
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bortrea
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Quote:
 
Jeff made it sound like the full rules but we shall see.


It will be the full rules. The rules in the Hellboy Essential Collection set were "Full" rules too, with illustrations and examples. It covered all the game basis for mechanics in that set. The comprehensive Rules on the other hand grew over the several sets and years from a smaller detailed rules document to include each sets new mechanics and more detailed technically explained rules resulting in a document over 170+ pages of stuff to wade through. As a judge it was a "Go-to" boon for determining and correctly ruling on disputes during tourements. As a new causal player it was a daunting and exhausting task to digest. This game is not your father's VS. It is refined and stream-lined. The basic rules can be explained clearly in eight pages. Which will apparently include illustrations and card examples too. So you won't be shorted. But I doubt that it will have the comprehensive detail and technical depth of explanation that the old VS 1.0 game did in its 170+ CRD.
Edited by bortrea, Jul 22 2015, 02:32 PM.
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KardKrazy
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Speedy92286
Jul 22 2015, 01:29 PM
KardKrazy
Jul 22 2015, 01:22 PM
bortrea
Jul 22 2015, 04:16 AM
KardKrazy
Jul 21 2015, 07:31 PM
So I just found out the comprehensive rules document is eight whopping pages. That is...laughable to say the least. I have a feeling there is going to be so much that isn't properly explained. That or the game is really that ridiculously simple. Which would be disappointing as well.
No one from UDE said that the rules being posted this Friday were the comprehensive rules document. They merely stated that it would summerize the rules already published in parts in different preview articles into one document. Its no different than the small rules pamphlet that came in The Hellboy Essential Collection set. And as far as I can tell they are a simple straight forward set of rules defining an easy game to learn, but a game that will require a lot of mastery to get all the strategies and tactics under your belt. This game has the very real appearance of serious variety and depth in how you can play it. I am sure a comprehensive rules document will be compliled soon enough. It will become a tool for judges I'm sure, as the last one did for VS 1.0. This is a launch of a new game at a gaming convention. UDE may have issues as a company, but Danny Mandel, the head designer is not a hack, He designed the original VS game and many other important card systems. Trust me, this is not his first rodeo. Its going to work. In the words of Douglas Adams from the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy..."Don't Panic".
Ah, that makes me feel much better. I was originally told the OCR was what was being posted Friday. If it is just like a quick guide then yeah 8 pages is DEFINITELY understandable. [coolguy]
Jeff made it sound like the full rules but we shall see.
What bortrea says in the post below you is spot on.

You also have to think when I talk about "Comprehensive Rules Document" I am talking about a document that details EVERY single little detail of the game. Down to a glossary, keyword explanation, etc...

To think they could cram all that into 8 pages and still thoroughly explain the game (especially if it is going to have illustrations) is what I was originally disappointed about.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 22 2015, 02:34 PM.
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bortrea
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Quote:
 
To think they could cram all that into 8 pages and still thoroughly explain the game (especially if it is going to have illustrations) is what I was originally disappointed about.


And while I am optomistic about what I've seen explained so far in the previews and intro articles in the past weeks from The Gang at UDE, I will concur that I would appreciate a "Comprehensive" rules document besides the basic rules we are going to see. 8 pages will explain the rules well enough, but when you get into a situation where two players are "Rules Lawyering" the fringes of the game play, a better document will clearly be needed to clearly settle such disputes.

The new game will be presented in a controlled environment at Gen Con with reps and judges to clarify. This should allow them to see the game launched and clear up first hand misunderstandings directly. It will also allow them to see where the holes and misunderstandings occur most. That will give them a feel for what a newer set of rules should include to clarify things better. At that point I believe we will see a CRD compiled and published. At Gen Con they will just clarify through judges and reps as they run tourements and demos.

So I feel your concerns. This game will be unfolded and be presented to the players in stages and phases. When they released the old classic VS (Which I dearly love and cherish) it was deployed and adjusted in phases as well.
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BatHulk
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Isn't HeroComplex (Chad?) one of the judges at GenCon?

IIRC, he took over writing the OVS CRD so maybe he will be tasked to do the same for 2PCG.

I think 2PCG was a really bad name for this considering they already know it will support more than 2 players. It should have just been called a CDG (Constructed Deck Game) or something like that.
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bortrea
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BatHulk
Jul 22 2015, 03:55 PM
Isn't HeroComplex (Chad?) one of the judges at GenCon?

IIRC, he took over writing the OVS CRD so maybe he will be tasked to do the same for 2PCG.

I think 2PCG was a really bad name for this considering they already know it will support more than 2 players. It should have just been called a CDG (Constructed Deck Game) or something like that.
I'm pretty sure Chad Daniels has been selected to be the Head Judge at Gen Con for the new VS SYstem 2PCG launch and will be running the 10K and overseeing the other tournements.

Edit: Yes, I confirmed that to be true. He is sharp. Got to work under him as a Judge at one of the Pro Circuit events. A real pleasure.
Edited by bortrea, Jul 22 2015, 04:27 PM.
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Psychotime
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http://upperdeckblog.com/2015/07/vs-system-2pcg-preview-building-decks/

Deck building rules.

Quote:
 
A Vs. System 2PCG deck must be exactly 60 cards (Supporting Characters, Plot Twists, and Locations) and must be accompanied by one Main Character (both its Level 1 and Level 2 versions), in addition to the deck itself. The Main Character does not go into the deck; the Level 1 version starts the game in play and the Level 2 version is put off to the side to start.

You can’t have more than four copies of the same card in your deck (this includes Basic Locations).


Only 60? Can't go over anymore? Ok.

Quote:
 
That’s it. Your deck can be all Characters from one team, or you can mix in Characters from a second, third, or even all four teams. You can run lots of Locations and Characters with Super Powers, or go “Location light” and use the extra space for more Plot Twists and Supporting Characters.


Main character Captain America uses the same illustration. Really? Ugh.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Ignoring the illustration, this is totally what I would want out of Cap.

Supporting Star-Lord.

Posted Image

Looks ok.

The rule for team-stamped plot twists isn't too restrictive. It's the same as it was in old VS.

Quote:
 
You must have a face-up Character of that team in play.
Edited by Psychotime, Jul 22 2015, 04:50 PM.
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bortrea
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I especially like the fact that they provide training wheels to get acquainted with deck building in this new environment and learn what works with what.

Quote:
 
To ease you into the game, the Rule Book includes one simple deck list for each team. You’ll be able to build all four of these decks at the same time with the cards in the box. You can use any Main Character with its team’s list, although some Main Characters are more powerful with a more focused deck build.


This will be good for new players.

Edit: Secretly it will be good for experienced VS 1.0 classic players to learn to perge the old mindset and learn the new tricks. I'm excited.
Edited by bortrea, Jul 22 2015, 05:12 PM.
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plaid_warlock
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I was actually expecting a little lower drop for Star Lord but whatever. Also if you notice in the last paragraph we get confirmation of some characters. The characters referenced are: Nick Fury, Mantis, Gambit, and Mandarin. Nick Fury and Mantis sound like they have some type of resource acceleration. Gambit has something to do with discarding cards. Mandarin has some super power and is most likely a low-drop. Everybody posting in the checklist thread can have fun trying to plug them into the list.
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KardKrazy
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Sigh...re-using artwork on a entirely different card in the same set. That screams cheap and rushed to me :(.

That being said, I agree Psycho. Captain is spot on.
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x_chan
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I guess that's it then. The last article is as bland as how the game looks. Nothing interesting on it, and the revelaed cards are meh. All that's remaining are a couple of extra cards and then to wait for the full set reveal at Gen Con.

From what I've seen, I'm going to pass on this game for now. Nothing really caught my eye. It looks too bland and simple to my liking. Maybe once the game has 3 or 4 more expansions it will have something I would like to play, but right now, that's not happening.

The Team up mechanic as a character power is going to cause some troubles. What happens to a team attack if the character giving team ups is stunned? Is it cancelled? If so, do the character ready?

For a game that's been playtested for almost 2 years it just feels like something half cooked and with the complexity of a 10 year old. I hope I'm wrong though.
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Hank McCoy
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My other back-from-the-dead-and-now-not-collectible-in-the-standard-sense card game, Doomtown, also did the starter decks out of the box for the 4 factions. It was a great way to get the group back into the (card) pool, and glad to see them doing so here. (Also it should give us more cards we have not seen yet for the Checklist fun)
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bortrea
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x_chan
Jul 22 2015, 05:54 PM
The Team up mechanic as a character power is going to cause some troubles. What happens to a team attack if the character giving team ups is stunned? Is it cancelled? If so, do the character ready?
Quote:
 
When a Team Attack resolves, the defending player chooses one attacker for the defender to strike back against.


Attacks happen one at a time. And as you can see the team attack you questioned being confusing is not a problem. The attack happens before the stun back.
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BatHulk
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Perhaps you’ve built a Thanos ramp deck that needs Nick Fury or Mantis to accelerate your resource production

So there is some resource manipulation? Interesting.
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x_chan
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bortrea
Jul 22 2015, 06:53 PM
Attacks happen one at a time. And as you can see the team attack you questioned being confusing is not a problem. The attack happens before the stun back.
Not exactly what I meant. I understand how stun back would work in that case, but what happens to team attacks when I stun the character that has the team up keyword with stuff like -1/-1 counters outside combat stuns? Is it cancelled or it goes through? If it goes through, are other stuff going to trigger or is stopped (like stat boosts for team affiliated characters)? Since there's no chain anymore, how is everything going to be resolved? Or what happens if while team attacked a character with ferocious stuns back the team up character first? Are boost stats carried over or will the teamates lose them?

Quote:
 
So there is some resource acceleration? Interesting.


I don't know how they thought that was going to be a good idea. Almost any resource acceleration ended up causing bans in the past. Unless all of them are tied to superpowers (which would made them not really worth the trouble), I don't understand how that's good for the game.
Edited by x_chan, Jul 23 2015, 01:31 AM.
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