Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Once you've registered and completed email validation, you'll need to reply to the thread in The Welcome mat before you gain full access to the site.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,977 Views)
BatHulk
Member Avatar
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Yep... no chain simplifies things... but is a bit different to understand if you are used to a chain/stack.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bortrea
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
BatHulk
Jul 28 2015, 02:25 AM
Yep... no chain simplifies things... but is a bit different to understand if you are used to a chain/stack.
I hear you brother. Its like having a split personality. But this to shall become who we are.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bortrea
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Just a follow-up from Jeff Piroozshad. He clarifies with the following about "Appears":

Quote:
 
Appears: When a character enters play it "appears." (Whether you played it from your hand or some other effect put it into play. If a character changes sides, that does not count as "appearing.")


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Psychotime
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
OMB
Jul 28 2015, 02:15 AM
This is the exact same as the old rule?
It's a very different rule.

In old VS, going below zero on a stat goes back to zero regardless of what it is.

With the chain, there were ways a savy player could get around higher -X effects by paying attention to the timing and order of effects.

In the new game, negative stats are a thing, but in all other parts of gameplay they're treated as zero.

They seemed to want players to always maximize the power of ATK debuffs no matter the target, instead of having players make tricky decisions about the best time and place to use them under a clean limitation.

Since the chain is no more, they also needed a way for these kind of effects to interact with each other. The result: Negative ATK is now a thing.

I personally enjoy limitations that hold back aggressors, because it makes the game less centered on just being the most aggressive. Aggressive effects and abilities then have to be played intelligently in order to maximize themselves.

With the 0 DEF = Instant Stun rule, I dislike the removal of the chain even more.
Edited by Psychotime, Jul 28 2015, 04:29 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Drstrange
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Psychotime
Jul 28 2015, 04:22 AM
OMB
Jul 28 2015, 02:15 AM
This is the exact same as the old rule?
It's a very different rule.

In old VS, going below zero on a stat goes back to zero regardless of what it is.

With the chain, there were ways a savy player could get around higher -X effects by paying attention to the timing and order of effects.

In the new game, negative stats are a thing, but in all other parts of gameplay they're treated as zero.

They seemed to want players to always maximize the power of ATK debuffs no matter the target, instead of having players make tricky decisions about the best time and place to use them under a clean limitation.

Since the chain is no more, they also needed a way for these kind of effects to interact with each other. The result: Negative ATK is now a thing.
Im not sure if this is a "new" rule to VS.
As far as I know VS 1.0 ATK/DEF values worked excactly the same as how they explained it here for 2PCG.

Example from CRD 104.1b
Quote:
 
Example: You control Savage Land, which reads, “Activate >>> Target Brotherhood attacker you control gets +1/-1 this attack for each resource you control.” You use Savage Land’s payment power on Toad while you control three resources. Toad was 3 ATK/2 DEF and now is 6 ATK/0 DEF, except for the purposes of further changing his DEF. For the purposes of further changing his DEF, Toad’s DEF is -1.
Edited by Drstrange, Jul 28 2015, 12:02 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wallywest1988
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rule functions the same as old vs.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BatHulk
Member Avatar
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I found this FAQ interesting:
Quote:
 

Daredevil’s ATK doubles if he attacks a Main Character. If I’m attacking with Daredevil into a Main Character and my opponent plays “Metal and Fire” to give Daredevil a -1/-1 counter during the Combat, will that -1/-1 be applied before or after his ATK gets doubled?

Daredevil’s ATK will be doubled when he actually strikes the defender. So Daredevil would get a -1/-1 counter first, as Combat Super Powers and Combat Plot Twists are being played. Then, when both players pass, Combat resolves and Daredevil strikes, Daredevil’s ATK doubles, increasing him from a 2/2 into a 4/2.

So it seems that "strikes" is a key phrase as it applies when Combat resolves. The question is incorrectly phrased as it should be "Daredevil's attack doubles when he *strikes* a Main Character".

This will probably come up during matches where a player will assume that the double modifier applies to the original ATK value and not any counter/effect modified ATK.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KardKrazy
Member Avatar
"'I've got a huge" Member
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BatHulk
Jul 28 2015, 03:39 PM
I found this FAQ interesting:
Quote:
 

Daredevil’s ATK doubles if he attacks a Main Character. If I’m attacking with Daredevil into a Main Character and my opponent plays “Metal and Fire” to give Daredevil a -1/-1 counter during the Combat, will that -1/-1 be applied before or after his ATK gets doubled?

Daredevil’s ATK will be doubled when he actually strikes the defender. So Daredevil would get a -1/-1 counter first, as Combat Super Powers and Combat Plot Twists are being played. Then, when both players pass, Combat resolves and Daredevil strikes, Daredevil’s ATK doubles, increasing him from a 2/2 into a 4/2.

So it seems that "strikes" is a key phrase as it applies when Combat resolves. The question is incorrectly phrased as it should be "Daredevil's attack doubles when he *strikes* a Main Character".

This will probably come up during matches where a player will assume that the double modifier applies to the original ATK value and not any counter/effect modified ATK.
Yeah people probably won't read him properly but his card is straight forward.

While attacking a main character, Daredevil strikes with double his ATK.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BatHulk
Member Avatar
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The IGN article was interesting:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/28/vs-systems-strategy-to-compete-with-magic-yu-gi-oh-and-pokemon-dont

Brenner talks about how they came up with this version of the game but he mostly describes going the LCG model rather than the booster pack one. He doesn't really get into the whys of changing the engine.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OMB
Member Avatar
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
My favorite part:
Quote:
 
... for reasons unknown a couple years in, the license to publish DC cards was lost.
Nice and charitable.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KardKrazy
Member Avatar
"'I've got a huge" Member
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
OMB
Jul 28 2015, 10:31 PM
My favorite part:
Quote:
 
... for reasons unknown a couple years in, the license to publish DC cards was lost.
Nice and charitable.
Isn't this the same guy who said we were getting Vs back at Gen Con 2014?

If so things he says can be taken with a grain of salt.

Yeah yeah yeah I know...let it go. [grumpy]

All that out of the way. Spider-Man looks like he has some potential. Cable...not so much.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 28 2015, 11:10 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OMB
Member Avatar
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
KardKrazy
Jul 28 2015, 11:09 PM
All that out of the way. Spider-Man looks like he has some potential. Cable...not so much.
Obviously we still have no real feel for the stats in this game since they are all over the place based on the previews, but he seems sort of like a souped up Red Skull. His big backend means that you will probably have to team attack him and if you do and they have the Red energy for him he's going to be taking everyone down with him. That's a pretty good trade.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JediJames2
Member Avatar
Regular
[ *  *  * ]
OMB
Jul 28 2015, 11:28 PM
KardKrazy
Jul 28 2015, 11:09 PM
All that out of the way. Spider-Man looks like he has some potential. Cable...not so much.
Obviously we still have no real feel for the stats in this game since they are all over the place based on the previews, but he seems sort of like a souped up Red Skull. His big backend means that you will probably have to team attack him and if you do and they have the Red energy for him he's going to be taking everyone down with him. That's a pretty good trade.
Not quite; he doesn't have the "any turn" symbol for his ability, so no two for ones.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
plaid_warlock
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
I thought the same thing too until I saw the lack of an "any turn" symbol. Aside from that, I actually think he looks good. He's basically an answer to really large characters like Hulk let's say. You just ram Cable into Hulk, use his ability, and they either have to burn a copy of Think Again to stop the combat or just let Hulk get stunned. Sure you'll lose your Cable but the one health is the trade-off for his ability. Plus he has range so you can throw him in the back row and lessen the chances of him getting stunned while attacking. When you absolutely need to stun a large dude, I think he's your guy.
Edited by plaid_warlock, Jul 29 2015, 01:57 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
x_chan
No Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
BatHulk
Jul 28 2015, 10:09 PM
The IGN article was interesting:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/28/vs-systems-strategy-to-compete-with-magic-yu-gi-oh-and-pokemon-dont

Brenner talks about how they came up with this version of the game but he mostly describes going the LCG model rather than the booster pack one. He doesn't really get into the whys of changing the engine.
Because he doesn't know the reason (or like I've been told he wanted to do a WoW TCG card game with superheroes, but he can't really admit that....). He has 0 clue about what the game is about, he is just hoping to get money from it. It's interesting to see his point of view, and realize that almost all his problems with the game were about distribution and not with the system.

Quote:
 
Isn't this the same guy who said we were getting Vs back at Gen Con 2014?

If so things he says can be taken with a grain of salt.

Yeah yeah yeah I know...let it go. [grumpy].


Yes he is. He has really no clue about the game at all. The way he describes how it plays makes it pretty obvious. He just handles the business part of it.

I find it kinda ironic what he says at the end. "If you have the best deck, you will go very far. All you gotta do is pick the right cards and put them in the deck, and you'll have a shot of going straight to the top." You will not go very far because of how you build your deck (probably a copy cutter), but of your luck. But that's the whole reason behind the new game, give everyone the same fair chance as they aren't the ones who are playing the game, is the deck who is playing them instead.

I will laugh hard if in a couple of years stalling decks dominate the meta and tournaments. We already stablished that undercurving might be the best way to control the board. The only thing left is a strong combo/finisher card that makes stall worth it. The lack of a winner in cases when the stalling reaches a point when no one can win makes it even more funny. Imagine how many "unendlessly" draw fights can this new VS feature... But at least they will be fun, unlike OVS ¬¬.

And regarding the cards revealed, I hate cards that has only superpowers on. It's essentially a blank text unless you have the energy, which won't be too often. They are only worth looking into when the superpower is strong enough to justify building a deck around it, like maybe Fury's or Dormammu's. Neither Cable or Spiderman looks deckbuilding material to me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Marvel Comics Character Images, Character Names and Card Text Copyright 2009 Marvel Characters Ltd. and/or Upper Deck Entertainment, LLC. DC Comics Character Images, Character Names and Card Text Copyright 2009 DC Characters Ltd. and/or Upper Deck Entertainment, LLC.