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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,974 Views)
BatHulk
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On using the same pictures for MCs and SCs, I couldn't understand that at first but it actually helps to make sure players don't recruit an SC the same as their MC.

It's a good visual cue because I remember several games where people have recruited a higher drop version of an already played character by mistake and no one caught it.
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BatHulk
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@x_chan:

You scenario with Hope Summers requires quite a bit to go right to pull it off. She only has 1 HP so keeping her alive from Turn 2 on may not be feasible. Even underdropping her later may not work.

I don't think she's as broken as you think, but it's a good power and luckily they team stamped it.
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KardKrazy
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So apparently UDE will have 800 boxes available starting tomorrow morning. 10 boxes per buy is the limit.

Also, read one guy bought his 10 box limit today for $50 and turned around and started selling them for $100.

You'd think UDE would know better...that or at least bring a lot more product.

EDIT: Correction...there will be no limit tomorrow to how much you can buy. What..the...actual f**k. Only 800 boxes and no limit.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jul 30 2015, 07:25 PM.
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BatHulk
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Villains looks pretty good... I found my Finishing Move.

And the L2 Magneto manipulates resources too... so yeah... that resource row was needed.
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x_chan
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BatHulk
Jul 30 2015, 07:19 PM
@x_chan:

You scenario with Hope Summers requires quite a bit to go right to pull it off. She only has 1 HP so keeping her alive from Turn 2 on may not be feasible. Even underdropping her later may not work.

I don't think she's as broken as you think, but it's a good power and luckily they team stamped it.
Which one?

I think both are pretty doable. You are missing the point completelly. You will not want Hope to survive, but rather set everything up so you can drop multiple copies of her at once (first case scenario) or just pull the combo and destroy your enemies (second one).

Once you pull the second one of, which requires little to no effort. The game is over. I mean, all you need is the X-Men team up character on the board, a wild card on your recource row and Deadpool plus 2 copies of Hope in your KO'd pile. I think you can perfectly have that by turn 6, even sooner depending on other Inventive character's cost and team and resource acceleration systems like Mantis or Nick's, or even Starlord's MC.

Turn 5/7 you should be able to recruit Deadpool from your KO'd pile using your wild location, recruit Iron Man to face it up, recruit Black Widow and/or Iceman with your extra resource points and start the infinite loop of recruiting Hope from the KO'd pile.

You need 7 cards total, 4 in hand and 3 in your KO'd pile by turn 6/7. I'm pretty sure the odds are good to pull it off. More if there's an X-Men character with Inventive, as you will not need the team up and can pull it off sooner.
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kansashoops
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KardKrazy
Jul 30 2015, 07:19 PM
Also, read one guy bought his 10 box limit today for $50 and turned around and started selling them for $100.
He later came back and said he was joking, and that he had bought only one. No one had thought he was joking or saw the humor, though.
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BatHulk
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x_chan
Jul 30 2015, 07:57 PM
BatHulk
Jul 30 2015, 07:19 PM
@x_chan:

You scenario with Hope Summers requires quite a bit to go right to pull it off. She only has 1 HP so keeping her alive from Turn 2 on may not be feasible. Even underdropping her later may not work.

I don't think she's as broken as you think, but it's a good power and luckily they team stamped it.
Which one?

I think both are pretty doable. You are missing the point completelly. You will not want Hope to survive, but rather set everything up so you can drop multiple copies of her at once (first case scenario) or just pull the combo and destroy your enemies (second one).

Once you pull the second one of, which requires little to no effort. The game is over. I mean, all you need is the X-Men team up character on the board, a wild card on your recource row and Deadpool plus 2 copies of Hope in your KO'd pile. I think you can perfectly have that by turn 6, even sooner depending on other Inventive character's cost and team and resource acceleration systems like Mantis or Nick's, or even Starlord's MC.

Turn 5/7 you should be able to recruit Deadpool from your KO'd pile using your wild location, recruit Iron Man to face it up, recruit Black Widow and/or Iceman with your extra resource points and start the infinite loop of recruiting Hope from the KO'd pile.

You need 7 cards total, 4 in hand and 3 in your KO'd pile by turn 6/7. I'm pretty sure the odds are good to pull it off. More if there's an X-Men character with Inventive, as you will not need the team up and can pull it off sooner.
You are setting your scenario up in a vacuum. This always happens in Mental Vs...I can't remember all the game texts but as I look back at each one, I'm not sure it will work out like you think.

For example, I don't believe Hope can copy Deadpool's power while she is in the KO pile. That power is specific to him while he is in the KO pile, and Hope can only copy face up character powers on your side (if she is in the KO pile, her powers are off).

That's different from 'appears' powers because it specifically calls out that she can copy them as she appears.

Speaking of 6-drop Iron Man, do you see now why the Resource row is necessary? You wouldn't be able to re-use locations otherwise. Admit it... you were a bit short-sighted regarding that.
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x_chan
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BatHulk
Jul 30 2015, 11:56 PM
You are setting your scenario up in a vacuum. This always happens in Mental Vs...I can't remember all the game texts but as I look back at each one, I'm not sure it will work out like you think.

For example, I don't believe Hope can copy Deadpool's power while she is in the KO pile. That power is specific to him while he is in the KO pile, and Hope can only copy face up character powers on your side (if she is in the KO pile, her powers are off).

That's different from 'appears' powers because it specifically calls out that she can copy them as she appears.

Speaking of 6-drop Iron Man, do you see now why the Resource row is necessary? You wouldn't be able to re-use locations otherwise. Admit it... you were a bit short-sighted regarding that.
Yeah, right now, we are assuming her powers could copy a face up Deadpool character you control. That's what I was wondering on the first place. As we don't know how her powers interact or work, we can only guess. That's why I'm hoping her powers are clarifyied on the FAQs. Right now, there's nothing preventing a copy of her in the KO'd pile to interact that way, as she can trigger any appear effects, which for that, her powers need to be active outside board. But anyway, if the interaction doesn't work that way, she can still abuse future powers similar to Deadpool's, like Dormmamu's Necromancy. The only way this could be stopped is if the rule that limits superpowers uses to only once per turn applies even if the source of the power is a different character or that, which would be stupid IMHO.

And regarding Iron Man's power. The combo could work exactly the same if he said "When he appears, put an energy card from your KO'd pile to your hand". The fact it's targetting a face down resource row is just annecdotal.

On another hand, cards like Mantis do an excellent job interacting with the resource row. That's more like the resource manipulation I wanted to see. Her power is pretty powerful actually and something I could never have imagined under the OVS. All I need now is them to release some permanent characters that can alter the board. I'm pretty disappointed that all the MC characters seem to have only superpower and not a single power that's permanent, like Support Characters do.
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OMB
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I just browsed the cards on VSRealms FB page and I wish the spoilers had been a little better during the lead up.

I get that there's something to not ruining the whole surprise, but I feel like a lot of the characters and plot twists that they officially spoiled are very vanilla compared to the cards they did not. I know that after actually seeing some of these other effects I am way more intrigued by the game.

It is pretty funny looking at some of these cards and just thinking how utterly broken they look when framing things from the viewpoint of OVS. Super interested in trying a Professor X deck that features stuff like Iceman, Hope, Magik, and Uncanny Defense.

It's also terrific to still see some alt wins (Deadpool and Gamora), out of combat stun (Gambit and Yondu), card recursion (Rocket - SC, Loki, Iron Man - SC), and totally off the wall stuff like Dr. Strange's Transmute power. I feel like the early marketing and presentation could have been a lot better, but that was never really Upper Deck's strong suit was it?

EDIT: And yes, Lemon, I'm still over here complaining... [grin]
Edited by OMB, Jul 31 2015, 05:37 AM.
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x_chan
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OMB
Jul 31 2015, 05:36 AM
I just browsed the cards on VSRealms FB page and I wish the spoilers had been a little better during the lead up.

I get that there's something to not ruining the whole surprise, but I feel like a lot of the characters and plot twists that they officially spoiled are very vanilla compared to the cards they did not. I know that after actually seeing some of these other effects I am way more intrigued by the game.

It is pretty funny looking at some of these cards and just thinking how utterly broken they look when framing things from the viewpoint of OVS. Super interested in trying a Professor X deck that features stuff like Iceman, Hope, Magik, and Uncanny Defense.

It's also terrific to still see some alt wins (Deadpool and Gamora), out of combat stun (Gambit and Yondu), card recursion (Rocket - SC, Loki, Iron Man - SC), and totally off the wall stuff like Dr. Strange's Transmute power. I feel like the early marketing and presentation could have been a lot better, but that was never really Upper Deck's strong suit was it?

EDIT: And yes, Lemon, I'm still over here complaining... [grin]
I feel exactly the same. All the previews were portraing the game as combat centered, and the cards were plain vanilla cards. +1/+1 counter effects, and tea attack stuff. I said that the game was not appealing to me since from how they described it, combo decks, alternate win conditions (although Gamora's and Deadpool are hardly that, as they require you to stun the opponents MC, son to me they just speed things up one or two turns) and out of combat stun effects were not going to be supported. Yet there are a bunch of cards that do exactly that.

I'm kinda wondering where all the talk came from. All the changes were supposed to make combat the main part of it, because OVS was such badly designed that stalling decks, unknown characters, weird team ups and out of combat stuns dominated it, making it so unflavourful that it had to be reworked completelly. MC were supposed to be the ultimate characters, with all their superpowers and levelling up mechanics, and yet, I found myself brainstorming decks around Hope's power and forgetting MC even exist. Any MC would work with her, because they are not relevant at all. I think that's basically because all the MC powers are limited by energy, so their uses are pretty limited (and to be honest, not a single one of them is worth building a deck around). So they are essentially pure stats and a health bar to me with.

The changes are even more confusing regarding how affiliation work now. Before, using more than 2 teams on your deck was a really bad idea, due to loyalty, team stamped tutors and powers, and reinforcement. Now it seems so rewarding to splash character and team stamped cards in your deck that it's making deckbuilding a joy. How could any stalling deck refuse to use Iceman, Antman and Mantis as their main 1-2 drops, or the Avengers PT? Or how would anyone avoid splashing Daredevil or Ferocious charactes in any aggro team? The only real disadvantadge are that they would not be able to team attack, but with how close the stats are between drops, and that the stats are all over the place, those might not be needed at all....
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BatHulk
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@OMB:

Maybe this is what they meant by it's still very much like Vs. Some of the engine and rules have changed, but the stuff that makes Vs what it is still remains. I've always felt that you should make the engine/rules simple and that the complexity should be in the effects/cards.

I can understand that by not previewing some of the juicier stuff, it could dissuade players (esp OVS ones) from taking interest in the game but this is a boxed set. There is no defined print run so they can always print more as demand rises because the setup cost is fixed. The need to hype a set isn't as high because they don't have to churn through their print run of boosters. This is why this model is more sustainable.

@x_chan:

I'm not sure why you think Hope's powers work from the KO'd pile. All card games go by a golden rule, you follow the rules but what the card text says overrides it.

1. Powers are active only while the character is not-stunned on your field.
2. Hope's power has an exception that she can copy 'appears' powers. That doesn't mean that her power is active everywhere, just that it can copy 'appears' as she appears.
3. Deadpool's power has an exception that his power is active while in the KO'd pile.
4. While Hope is in the KO'd pile, her power is not active thus she cannot be copying Deadpool's power.

It's pretty straightforward to me but I could be wrong. Obviously I'm basing my opinion on designer intent and OVS judging experience.

And yes, you could word Iron Man's text that way, but you're again missing the point that you couldn't do the acceleration tricks using the same game construct. It's an element that functions in many ways which is why it's useful. You keep saying it isn't, but based on how this game is structured, it certainly is (and it still retains the OVS flavor).
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Psychotime
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Keywords and card explanations!

http://upperdeckblog.com/2015/07/vs-system-2pcg-keyword-and-card-specific-explanations-and-clarifications/


I really like main Deadpool and Thanos. They really have the flavor down. Remember how disappointing the Infinity Gauntlet was in MHG?

I like that Agent Venom is named as he is. That means that they seem to be avoiding the name convention they did in the old game in regards to all the many characters to have the Venom symbiote. So that means that once expansions come out, Agent Venom and regular Venom (presumably Eddie Brock) can be out at the same time.

I'd rather Agent Venom be an Avenger, though. Or have been dual affiliated.

Damn, I want a Spider-Man expansion so badly. I just started reading some of Agent Venom's current series and I like it a good bit. Can they give us an Agent Venom, hell, maybe a Spider-Gwen MC soon? I'd be all over that! And you know they'll include Daredevil!

I really dislike both versions of Groot. He reads badly, but I guess I just have to play with him to get a grasp of him.

KardKrazy
Jul 30 2015, 12:19 PM
Psychotime
Jul 30 2015, 04:43 AM
Based on what? The most popular games in this genre have zero to do with superheroes, so a blanket statement like "once they do anything outside of superheroes people will stop buying" just looks silly.
I'm just basing it off my personal preference and what I've heard my friends state. That's all man. So in my world (and apparently others as you can see) it isn't "silly". It's just how we feel. But on that same note as roguesaw stated...Legendary and other games do just fine and I wouldn't give those games a dime of my money.
There's a difference between talking about yourself and talking about an entire consumer base. Read your post again, you sound like you're talking about the latter as an extension of the former.
Edited by Psychotime, Jul 31 2015, 06:27 PM.
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Hank McCoy
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From the link Psychotime shared;

MUTANT POWER DUPLICATION

How does this power work?

No matter where she is (your hand, your KO pile, or in play), this card has all the powers of each face-up X-Men supporting character on your side. This includes appears powers (like Iceman and Emma Frost), Flight, Range, and even Deadpool’s “Can’t Keep a Bad Man Down” power. I know, it’s awesome
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x_chan
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BatHulk
Jul 31 2015, 02:41 PM
It's pretty straightforward to me but I could be wrong. Obviously I'm basing my opinion on designer intent and OVS judging experience.
Well, then. It seems you were wrong and I was right... So there goes your designer intent and OVS judging experience ¬¬

And about the resource row. I already explained what was my problem with it, but since you keep bringing it back, here it is again. The resource row felt like a bad reminiscent of the OVS one. Even the location cards felt forced and out of place (they work like energy cards, not locations, and I'm pretty sure hadn't them been forced to keep the OVS theme, they would have been called something else). All I wanted to know was an explanation to why that system was the best they could come up with for the new game if OVS wasn't restricting the design. Do the experiment to remove it completelly and let the new game dictate what it needed to reach its full potential. If that was what the game needed and not just a dumbed down OVS resource row version, then I have no problem with it. So far, only Mantis and Groot are using the resource row properly, as theirs are permanent powers, which require a permanent row to be used on. Magneto or Iron Man doesn't, but that's just a matter of prespective I guess.

Edit: So all the VSRealms shown cards are all the cards the game has, right? So the final count is 112 different cards, but only 72 deckbuilding cards. Kinda hard to be excited with. I don't know why I was expecting some more.... They could have reduced the number of MC to 3 per team so a few more SC or PT could have been created, which is were the action happens. I hope they don't do that as a pattern, because there's really no options to build decks from with what they are offering. I don't think MC are interesting enough to make decks feel different. But well....

Only Green Goblin SC3 was missing from Yesterday's buch (which has an even better power for Hope's combo). Since there's no X-men with the Team up or Inventive keyword, Hope's combo can't go of. So unless they never ever make an X-Men character with any of those keyowrds (or similar ones), she will be under control I guess.
Edited by x_chan, Jul 31 2015, 05:48 PM.
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Beastboy
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Quote:
 
turn 5/7 you should be able to recruit Deadpool from your KO'd pile using your wild location, recruit Iron Man to face it up, recruit Black Widow and/or Iceman with your extra resource points and start the infinite loop of recruiting Hope


I dont get how do you create the infinite loop since iron man is an Avenger, and Hope copy Xmen so you cant turn up your location infinitly... am i missing something?
Edited by Beastboy, Jul 31 2015, 05:27 PM.
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