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| VS System 2PCG info released | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,973 Views) | |
| x_chan | Jul 31 2015, 05:57 PM Post #766 |
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You can't right now. The combo is missing an X-Men character with the team-up keyword. I was expecting each team to have a SC with that keyword, but with so few cards, it didn't happen. So they pretty much locked themselves to never ever release an X-Men with that keyword or Inventive one. As long as they stick to it, everything will be good. And with so few different cards per ser (72, really?), I don't see X-Men or Avengers comming back in a long long time. So the game will be good for now. |
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| BatHulk | Jul 31 2015, 07:40 PM Post #767 |
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Yes. You were right. But it seems you were wrong on how easy is to abuse her. However, you are also right that UDE will have to keep her in check somehow. If 2PCG had rarities, her and Mantis would be up there as power rares.
As I said, other than you and one other poster, most players don't have a problem with the Resource Row and without it, you couldn't do some of the effects mentioned. Additionally, you said that instead of playing a resource, you could just discard a card, but then that means you won't have that card to play later. In your system, I would have to keep all the location/energy cards in my hand and discard a PT or character... whereas with a resource row, you can still use it. I really do think you were making your judgement too early... and now that you see Mantis and Groot, I think you can agree the resource row is not totally useless. As for the MCs not having as good effects as the SCs, that is how it should be. Since you don't have to draw your MCs, they have to limit their powers somewhat because they will be there during the entire duration of the game. Again, if there were rarities, some of those MCs are crap commons. :) |
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| BatHulk | Jul 31 2015, 07:46 PM Post #768 |
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So I'm wondering about the OVS players who said they would not play 2PCG... now that you see all the cards and their game text... is it tempting at all? I actually still think this version has a higher barrier of entry than other games... just not as high as OVS. What will help sell this game is the packaging model... but the meta may determine longevity as a casual game, a pro tournament game or something in between. Can't wait to get my cards. |
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| x_chan | Jul 31 2015, 08:35 PM Post #769 |
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To be honest, most of the cards revealed are borderline broken to me and show how badly designed they are. It feels like MEV all over againg, but that's when I look at it from my OVS experience. They are kept in check right now because there's only a pool of 72 cards to choose from. Once the pool grows bigger, the problems will start to arise. I already showed how easily it is to break Hope. All it needs is a team up X-Men character to be able to abuse ANY superpower. ANY. They will not be able to release such card EVER, which is highly limiting. As the game expands, team ups will become more and more important. But it's not only team-ups cards, they can never create an X-Men SC with Inventive or any "when appear" recursion effect for that matters. Even recursion superpowers could be devastating if the trade of limiting recursion, and all because of how poorly designed is her (and they even have the guts to recognize it by saying she is awesome on the Keyword FAQ). You can say there's too many pieces needed for that to ever be a problem, but there's so many ways to abuse her. Blast, Sting, Freeze, Mind Games, etc. are all mechanics that can be abused with her and can be game breaking. Freeze and Mind Games are already in X-Men characters, so there would be no need to team-ups. All she needs is an X-Men with Inventive or a "when appears" energy recursion system and it's all set and done. With the amount of draw the game has, it should be easy to draw the needed pieces. Mind Games can be enough to achieve that. Emma has 2 health, so it should be easy to keep her around if needed. And that can be said too for Mantis, or even Nick Fury's or other resource acceleration mechanics. Accelerating resources was broken in the past for many reasons, and they weren't always attached to the curve stats, as you want to believe. Dr. Light was abused till death and he could only bring characters with 3 cost. And it was only due to their effects. So thanks to Mantis and Nick Fury. Now it's possible to bring 8 drops during turn 4 or 5. So because of that, any high drop will have to be double checked so it's not abused. They are setting themselves into troubles and this is just the first set.
I will not be buying it for now. There are some interesting stuff in it, but there's not enough cards to build anything worth playing out of it. Plus the game feels rushed and unfinished, the intention behind it is confusing and it has plenty of bad design desitions already, which make me believe it won't last long, so I rather keep my money for now. All the reviews and interviews explaining how bad the game OVS was and how much it needed to change to be more new players friendly, and at the end, the final product is as messy and allineating as the first one. The only reason I believe this is more new players friendly it's because of the distribution format and the limited card pool. All of it could have been made possible under the OVS. Keywords have been aumented by the dozens, counters are all over the place making a mess of the board, and combat is pointlessly overcomplicated without a clear reason why. And the presence of out of combat stun and alternate win conditions make me believe that in time it will not be even needed. If the game lasts enough to see some good expansions with interesting juce in them to build something fun to play, I'll give it a try. But right now, that's not happening. Edited by x_chan, Jul 31 2015, 08:54 PM.
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| Beastboy | Jul 31 2015, 08:46 PM Post #770 |
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I see more an errata on her for "printed Xmen" and not putting out an iron man like. And when they ll see this card is overbroken, they gonna ban her, with all broken card we are talking about, but not so far... @bathulk, i would have said same as you, actually i think its quite strage she works on hand and grave.... they definitly wanted to do 4-6 overbroken cards in the firsts set to make the game attractive (and its working, we are so excited to see all those great combo and possibility to build around, forgetting the game might be very limited, considering the fact there is almost no tutors, plot twistd are crap, and as x-chan just said: soo few different cards, we must play multi team to build something) More interesting Does anyone knows if there will be EA/ FOILS/ HOBBY LEAGUE PROMO cards for local tournaments??? Can someone ask to UDE at gencon? |
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| BatHulk | Jul 31 2015, 10:01 PM Post #771 |
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Yes, foils or EAs of these cards would be good hobby kits and a way to provide incentive to play at local tourneys. I'm not at GenCon but I'll poke around. |
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| Vader | Aug 1 2015, 12:53 AM Post #772 |
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X chan pretty much said what I feel exactly. Some of the cards look interesting but on the whole I still feel like the design is a steaming pile of pooh. Poorly thought out, overly complicated, ect. And believe it or not I have a more favorable opinion of the game than most of the former players I know. |
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| Psychotime | Aug 1 2015, 01:45 AM Post #773 |
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An infinite combo that requires 6 individual cards in order to work out? Three of which need to be in your KO'd Pile in order for you to pull it off? Do you have a discard outlet? Wait, that's gonna mean you need MORE cards to pull it off... Aren't you the same person who found the entire concept of superpowers impractical because they required a colored resource in order to work, and are therefore rarely going to go off? Yes, you did. I'm surprised to hear of such an impractical Magical Christmas Land scenario from you, of all people. And with such conviction at that! If a combo needs 6-7 individual cards in order to work, even ignoring the fact that half of them have to somehow get into your KO'd Pile, it's rarely ever gonna happen. And if it ever actually went off, what do you gain from being able to constantly resurrect a 2/4 with 1 health that copies the "enters play" triggers of your supporting characters (which just adds MORE cards to your combo to make it worthwhile)? Even if that combo goes off, how does it help you win the game? All a player needs to do is get rid off the support characters Hope is stealing from. It's not hard. As long as a player knows that Hope's power works from the KO'd Pile, they're going to play with that in mind. Edited by Psychotime, Aug 1 2015, 02:02 AM.
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| x_chan | Aug 1 2015, 06:05 AM Post #774 |
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Ok guys. If you want to live in denial I have no problem with. This game is PERFECT. Has 0 issues and will never have any. It will live forever and ever, and since the devs has everything under control, Hope is just a balanced that will never ever cause any troubles. Happy? But if you care enough to see the problem, no matter how hard it seems to pull it of. Emma could be an excellent winning condition, as Hope can abuse her power to mill your opponents, even in multiplayer matches. Not to mention she could act as a last minute resource to fill your KO pile with enough copies of Hope and Deapool so your combo can be set up, although I think recruiting them and just let them be killed or commite suicide is a much better option (who would have thought of that? Not you obviously, as you seem to think filling the KO'd pile with the required card will require magic....). Also there's the option to power up your Hope to guarantee your second copy if you don't plan to undercurve her next round as a better option. Spoiler: click to toggle And having said that. Yes, I did say superpowers were impractical and rarely worth it. That was because I thought they were going to be limited and restricted, like they said it would. However, they had found a way to make them abusable to the point it can create infinite loops. That hardly happened in dozens of OVS sets and thousands of cards. The new game has found a way to create the needed keywors in just one set of 72 card... Thank God they didn't gave us an Inventive or Team up X-Men card. And pray that they will never ever do so. |
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| Speedy92286 | Aug 1 2015, 06:29 AM Post #775 |
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Wouldn't Thanos MC's green power destroy said combo since he shuffles ALL characters in ALL ko piles back into their owner's deck? Even if Hope became broken, villains has answers already; Use Ronan to call Hope and see what is in their hand, of there is no Hope (lol) then hopefully keep him around. When Hope is finally put onto the field, Goblin sc combined with metal and fire will take her out. Basically there are already counters. Hell, 4 drop Storm, Mandarin also give -1/-1 counters. The more I think of it the less scared I am. Gambit and Yondu also destroy her. And Cosmo. The only decks I see Hope messing up is Deadpool and Gamora decks early on and MAYBE ramp decks but I digress. How exactly would you win with Hope if this combo always worked? Stalling with no way to win is silly unless you want time called every match. |
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| Psychotime | Aug 1 2015, 06:52 AM Post #776 |
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Cause giving yourself intentional card disadvantage to pull off a combo turns later with no other focus is sensible gameplay that can't possibly blow up in your face when your main character is a sitting duck to get bulldozed by more practical players. I don't even bother with high level play and I can see poor gameplay when I see it. And tell me, what do you gain once you set the combo off (again, needing 6-7 cards to make it even work)? What makes it worth it? Edited by Psychotime, Aug 1 2015, 06:56 AM.
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| roguesaw | Aug 1 2015, 07:05 AM Post #777 |
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If this was already pointed out I apologize, but upper deck confirmed hope's power is crazy. From the FAQ MUTANT POWER DUPLICATION How does this power work? No matter where she is (your hand, your KO pile, or in play), this card has all the powers of each face-up X-Men supporting character on your side. This includes appears powers (like Iceman and Emma Frost), Flight, Range, and even Deadpool’s “Can’t Keep a Bad Man Down” power. I know, it’s awesome. Edit: source link http://upperdeckblog.com/2015/07/vs-system-2pcg-keyword-and-card-specific-explanations-and-clarifications/ Edited by roguesaw, Aug 1 2015, 07:06 AM.
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| Beastboy | Aug 1 2015, 07:09 AM Post #778 |
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Yup Hank mc coy just said it in previous page! |
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| roguesaw | Aug 1 2015, 07:10 AM Post #779 |
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I see that it was, sorry for the redundancy |
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| x_chan | Aug 1 2015, 08:24 AM Post #780 |
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First. This is just a theory, as the combo doesn't really exist. But since the game doesn't seem to offer much to discuss, I had to start theory crafting. The combo might never ever exist if they stick to the rule of never release an X-Men character with Inventive or Team-up keywords. Seeing how few cards they are releasing per set. That might actually never happen. Second. I already said many times I only play combo decks. I don't like combat. Never had, never will. So to me the point is to win without having to do combat at all. That's what I have fun with. I understand that it's not the case for everyone, or else rush decks wouldn't be so popular. I have build decks with 7-8 combo cards before. Some were competitive enough, others didn't. But it was what I enjoyed the most. My goal was never to win matches but to have fun with the game. My favourite and most competitive deck was a level 5 Jean Grey KO pile abuse which I could turn her into a 20/20 character by turn 5 consistently (you could say it was an 11 combo card deck, but it required a lot more cards to be able to survive to turn 5. It revolved around Iceman exhausting the oponents, Rogue copying his powers and plenty of KO pile abuse. Pretty similar to this deck, now that I think of. But with more cards involved. Maybe that's why Hope caught my eye), and when things worked out great, I could have 2 25/25 Jean Grey by turn 6 (which meant using Carrying the Torch, a non Jean Grey character to remove and 16 Jean Grey in the KO'd pile). I won some national tournaments with that deck (I'm not from the USA, so my competitive scene was quite different, more casual friendly as people were trying to get fun and not money). Having said that, are you reading the same cards I am? All your answers are Main actions, which will not work as Hope gets of during the build phase. Yes, you can kill her once she's out, but who cares. I don't. By the time you are able to attack her, she would have already been abused. Actually, if you kill an early copy of her, good, as she will be brought back form the KO'd pile without problems. Only a well timed Ronan+Thanos combo could mess the deck, but that would require them to undercurve said Ronan in later turn, and have both needed energy cards ready. And regarding the win condition. Like I said before, milling your opponents from all their cards thanks to Emma's Mind Games + permanently exhausting them with Iceman give you an open board to attack and KO all their characters, one by one, without any superpower or plot twist interfearing with it. You keep recruiting characters each turn so your board is getting bigger, while your opponent can't do absolutelly nothing but play his remaining faceup energy cards. No matter how many turns it takes you to be able to KO the MC, it's just a matter of time. Although I'm sure the oponent will gladly conceed to avoid losing time. If an X-Men ever get the Blast or Sting keyword, then I would just add them as an alternate win condition.. Just abuse the infinite -1/-1 counters to stun everyone out of combat.
lol I'm not giving myself intentional card disadvantadge. I'm presenting a useful body that is ready to be sacrified protecting my MC. like most of the SC would be. The only difference is that no matter if they survive or not, it still benefits me. So what makes it worth it? The face on my oponent when I mill him completelly so he has no other option to see how I kill him without him having a chance to answer should be priceless. But also the joy I feel after successfully achieving my carefully planned combo. Winning the match doesn't hurt either. Edited by x_chan, Aug 1 2015, 08:39 AM.
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