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VS System 2PCG info released
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (25,972 Views)
Speedy92286
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Hah, as a combo deck lover I see your point. As I said in another thread, I saw the combo with Iceman and Hope before I saw you post it so I put it as an early game strat for Magneto. The reason I brought up Thanos MC to beat hope is because I really want to abuse Infinity Guantlet. I made a deck around him specifically just to get things into the opponents KO pile to make him bigger while waiting for Gauntlet.

In old VS Secret Six was my guilty pleasure deck. I won with it on many occasions so I get your love. Hell, I tried every insta win deck. I found a consistent way to win turn 6/7 with secret six but can still win on turn 5.

Right now in the new game my new love is ramp decks. Groot ramp will be a thing if I have any say. If on my turn 3 I have a 7/7 mc and a 5 drop then the opponent is in trouble :P Mantis, Thanos, Fury, and Adam all scream to me. As does Iron Man. His schenanigans are stupid good!
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BatHulk
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@x_chan:

Ahh... combo decks... makes more sense now. No wonder you didn't like 2PCG when they were framing it as combat-focused.

We'll see how the meta plays out. This reminds me of OVS when someone would say a card is broken or there is some combo and then everyone else would say how hard that is and then all of sudden someone busts out Dr. Light at a PC and then UDE has to pull out the errata stick.

I don't necessarily think it's sloppy design, gamers (which Danny and Ben are) like to make broken cards or effects that are flavorful... but they have a limited test environment and it's not until it gets into the wild where players like yourself come up with ideas they never thought of.

Although you say you'll wait and see... seems like your game knowledge might get you to play sooner than later... maybe with proxies or on MWS (is that still around?) to test your theories.

I do hope we get some $10k reporting.
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Beastboy
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There is a live report and very interesting articles written by Ian Vincent on vsheadquarters.com

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BatHulk
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Thanks for the link Beastboy.

Very interesting, turns are going to 11 and they are 1-game matches.

David Spears is there!

Are there any more live reporting sites?
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Beastboy
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BatHulk
Aug 1 2015, 04:33 PM
Thanks for the link Beastboy.

Very interesting, turns are going to 11 and they are 1-game matches.
Also there is so underdropped recruits and missing drops...
It seems like there were more regularity in OVS drafts lol.
Are accelerators like prof x/moondragon/ dr octopus mandatory in this games?
also putting a drop 8 isnt an autowin whereas in OVS it was (more or less)

Also some matchs ends up with end of time
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kariggi
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What is time 30 min.?, seems like one issue didn't get resolved despite all the changes thatl keep me from spending money on this.
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x_chan
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BatHulk
Aug 1 2015, 03:25 PM
I don't necessarily think it's sloppy design, gamers (which Danny and Ben are) like to make broken cards or effects that are flavorful... but they have a limited test environment and it's not until it gets into the wild where players like yourself come up with ideas they never thought of.

Although you say you'll wait and see... seems like your game knowledge might get you to play sooner than later... maybe with proxies or on MWS (is that still around?) to test your theories.
I understand that they are working in a limited testing environment, but the OVS game had years of accumulated knowledge and they seem to have ignored it completelly. The game feels like it's build from scratch, and it only borrows some circumstantial stuff from the original game that feels mostly out of place, like how they turned the locations into energy cards (I mean, honestly? There was no other ways to introduce the energy so locations can come back if the game needs them to?), but also stuff like Magneto's power or the Finishing Move like PT (in the new game only 1/3 of the characters has more than 1 health which means only 1/3 of the characters has a chance to become stunned, and those are usually the ones with crappy powers for balance issues).

I can't shake the feeling that the Danny and Ben didn't know what VS was or did became at the end. They seem to be stucked in the first few expansions ignoring most of VS history and most importantly the hard and great work done during its Legends reboot. We already got a glimpse of that during last year event, when they offered cards from the Origins set, a set that UDE adminted to be horribly designed, and not from the Legends one, which was a much improved version. And the more I learned about the new game, the more obvious it got.

I've been asking for further knowledge on the reasons behind most of the changes, not only here, but in multiple pages, and all I've got so far is "this is better because I/the devs say so". I don't know if Danny or Ben were around for the reboot or already moved on to some other games by then (WoW TCG maybe?), so that might explain it. I just wish that, if that's the case, they had done a better research of the IP, above all the Legends sets, as those sets already solved or hinted solutions at many of the problems Danny had with the original game, without the need to change it completelly and are a prove that other ways were possible.

They feature Alter Egos and Legend cards, which in my opinion, created a better job at making important characters the focus of the decks and combat. I remember players started to call their decks by superheroes then. My mentioned Jean Grey is an example of that, but there were also Batman decks, Hulk decks, Wolverine decks and even some interesting hybrids like an Ironman/Beast boy deck. People came here asking advises on how to build a certain hero deck, and we were able to give fun and competitive lists for them. I don't get that feeling from Danny's MC interpretation.

They also removed lots of outdated and pointless keywords, added explanation texts (which is exactly what they are doing right now, thinking they have created the cure to cancer...) and cleaned and perfected the text wording and template so it would be a lot easier for new players to learn and understand (which I don't see any of that in the new VS. There are cards that mention themselves by different forms at the same time, like Red Skull. That could have never happened under the reboot, as the text was carefully worded to avoid confusion).

I believe that the main reason why the reboot didn't work out, despise selling out pretty fast, was it came too late and couldn't overcome the bad press it got. New players didn't wanted to give it a try because previous bad experience.

Now, with the increasing popularity of the superheroes and the LCG format it was the perfect time to relaunch it. They just needed to analyze what parts of the system needed changes and what ones needed to be boosted based on the Legends set, since those sets already had done such analysis in the past supported by years of game and players feedback.

The relaunched had the opportunity to improve on core base fundamental problems, that have been mentioned here, like the importance of hitting the curve, the time consuming resource row, the lack of randomness, the strike back mechanic, etc. All of them have good reasons to be implemented, but I don't feel they were implemented on the existing system, but under a new one, as I don't see anything left in there that makes me believe it's taking the OVS experiece into consideration.

That has the potential to lead to the same misstakes the original game had, and Legends already ammended. Insane amount of keywords, lack of useful popular characters, abusable powers, unbalanced mechanics, long matches, etc. that allineated new players from the original game.

I'll keep an eye on it, but right now, I can't stop thinking this is not going to work at all. Hopefully I'm wrong, but from the reports of the tournament, it doesn't look like it.
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Speedy92286
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I disagree; the tournie report made me even more excited to play. What about it hit such a sour note with you?
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BatHulk
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Considering most players only had a few days to build, I'm sure more decks will come up... just like with OVS.

I want to work on a quick aggro deck... so I don't think I will be using Thanos.
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KardKrazy
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BatHulk
Aug 3 2015, 05:02 AM
I want to work on a quick aggro deck...
Storm is beastly. -2/-2 counters are no joke and her 5/6 Level 2 comes almost guaranteed on Turn 3...4 at the latest is hard to get around.

I hate I overlooked her before the tourney Saturday. I ended up going with Magneto and had a pretty good start 4/2 but then I ran into Storm and it was the quickest match-up of the day for me. I drew like crap but still even so (I only got 2 locations out of 16 in my deck)...I was dead in 5 turns. I think the match took 10 minutes. While I drew like crap my opponent drew like god. He pulled double Blue, a green, and 2 wilds by Turn 5 along with his 2, 3, and 4 drop. He auto stunned my Magneto on Turn 2 after applying 4 -2/-2 counters from Turn one and Turn 2. My poor Magneto never saw more than 1 XP in that game. To give you an idea of how ridiculous that is...EVERY game I played in that day, I was Level 2 by Turn 5 at the absolute latest. That Storm deck ate my Defense like it was breakfast. It was the only deck I saw all day that truly impressed me from a design stand point.
Edited by KardKrazy, Aug 3 2015, 03:02 PM.
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KardKrazy
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x_chan
Aug 1 2015, 08:24 AM
Second. I already said many times I only play combo decks. I don't like combat. Never had, never will.
Yeah man...after playing the game for like 12 hours or so. I can confirm you would hate this game...probably even more than me. Combos and unique card interactions are pretty much impossible in it. It is about as straight forward and blah as it gets :(. In the end man just save your money.
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BatHulk
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@KardKrazy:

So you didn't like the new Vs? Does that mean no more for you or are you going to try to see if there are some combos that can be done?

Personally, I prefer combat so I may like 2PCG more than OVS. I'm wondering if I can build a First Strike Ferocious deck.

Never really thought of Storm in aggro but I guess a constant pseudo Flying Kick is useful.
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KardKrazy
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BatHulk
Aug 3 2015, 04:48 PM
Never really thought of Storm in aggro but I guess a constant pseudo Flying Kick is useful.
Yeah I totally over looked her as well. Scott was warning me about the Storm deck like a round or two before I ran into it (as there was a team of players playing it) and when I did run into it I was like "Ow...ow...ow...OWWWWW". Apparently the Star Lord/Rocket Raccoon deck Barnes team was playing was really aggressive as well but I'm not entirely sure how it plays as I never ran into one but from what I heard it utilized Rocket Raccoon's Salvage ability to get its ATK pumps back and they pretty much didn't care what you recruited as they went only for your main and that...was...it.

I know Scott (who's team ran a Thanos deck) told me he ran into the SL/RR deck a round earlier and said he had 5 Wound Counters on his Thanos going into Turn 6. Scott ended up winning though because the player had blown it's load per say and couldn't get the cards back and Scott was able to brick wall him until he got all his pieces together to Level Up and Infinity Gauntlet the player. Once that happened it was game over.

Speaking of which I have to admit I was shocked the Infinity Gauntlet power was so easily achievable. I saw it and immediately said, "No freaking way...not touching that crap." Joke was on me...I even had a player Infinity Gauntlet me TWICE in one game (and the first time he Infinity Gauntlet'd me he made me discard TWO Thanos I had in hand...sad face). Once on his Turn 6 (going by resources here...not actual "turns") and again two turns later. I still won that game though because I got Magneto Level'd up on Turn 4 and starting blowing up resources every other turn or so. So in the end he had like 7 resources and I had like 10 or 11 even though there was a turn or two where I didn't even lay a resource. The thing about the Infinity Gauntlet power though isn't even the fact that it can blow up a resource, KO a character of mine of his choice, AND stun my main...it is the fact that he also makes you discard your hand...I felt like that hurt FAR more than anything else IG does. I mean I had the Infinity Gauntlet pulled on me 3 times during the day and in both games I discarded at least 3 cards...I swear the first time it happened I lost like 5 or 6 because they got it online so fast.

Either way...yeah it seems Star Lord and Storm are the way to go for aggro. Happy deck building man.
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BatHulk
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@KardKrazy:

So funny... even though you hated your tourney experience, the way you explain how your games went and how certain interactions were... it sounds so fun to me.

Like seeing the Infinity Gauntlet go off reminds me of PC San Fran when all I could do was watch as my opponent did his Arkham tricks and my hand disappeared. I knew I was going to lose but I just wanted to see how the deck worked (although my opponent was a bit douchey because not only was he telling me to hurry up on my turns because he would lose if the game went to time but he was also changing his mind on his plays which I allowed anyways).

The SL/RR deck sounds interesting... since the meta is so new, there might be something else more my style.
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KardKrazy
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BatHulk
Aug 3 2015, 06:54 PM
@KardKrazy:

So funny... even though you hated your tourney experience, the way you explain how your games went and how certain interactions were... it sounds so fun to me.

Like seeing the Infinity Gauntlet go off reminds me of PC San Fran when all I could do was watch as my opponent did his Arkham tricks and my hand disappeared. I knew I was going to lose but I just wanted to see how the deck worked (although my opponent was a bit douchey because not only was he telling me to hurry up on my turns because he would lose if the game went to time but he was also changing his mind on his plays which I allowed anyways).

The SL/RR deck sounds interesting... since the meta is so new, there might be something else more my style.
Yeah it just simply isn't my thing man. I hate that I didn't enjoy it because it was a huge waste of money in the end not to mention just straight up disappointing because even though I had a negative out look on the game leading up to Gen Con I was still holding onto some hope that I would be impressed once I got the cards in my hand. Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

While this is rather random I was sad (although not completely surprised) to find that UDE did indeed pull some BS at last years Gen Con when they released those old Vs card reprints that would end up being useless and promoted that Vs was coming back. I was speaking to a judge with 2 other people and we were talking about what happens if a player decks out and they straight up said, "UDE has been testing this game for well over a year and that never happened once in their games." Sigh..."well over a year huh."
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