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| VS System 2PCG info released | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:20 AM (26,019 Views) | |
| Wallywest1988 | Jun 1 2015, 01:52 PM Post #76 |
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VS had issues. People need to remember the game has its flaws. New changes make for a faster paced game. Better competitive experience with best of 3 being an option along with potential side decks. Remember losing cuz you didn't get odds in old day VS? Not fun times. Champion Heroes will make deck building a blast. It helps to realize that old VS was never coming back. Some games don't come back at all. I am pretty excited to dive into new VS but also glad I held on to my entire collection of old VS after they announced the reboot. |
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| -TK- | Jun 1 2015, 01:55 PM Post #77 |
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The "why" they did is perfectly clear to everyone. They think this way they can trick old players into the game, while presenting something new to players that don't know how they are bad at this. I mean, it's not rocket science. At this point yes: I would rather it not coming out at all. It would have saved us from that charade last year about VS coming back. And UDE not making fun of us. Moreover... it didn't come back... that's one of the reason I'm salty about this in the first place. They said it would be back, and then it didn't. Edited by -TK-, Jun 1 2015, 01:59 PM.
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| Mordis | Jun 1 2015, 02:46 PM Post #78 |
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The game absolutely needed changes, but they could have made nearly all, if not all, of these changes without flattening the character power curve. Not that missing a drop isn't a problem, but it seems like that is already minimized by the fact that endurance is gone. If they had given the MC more frequent/smaller "level ups" it would have further minimized the impact of missing a drop. Sure, there would probably have been some additional tweaks required. Also, if you're consistently missing drops, maybe fix your deck. At least if they had kept the power curve, probably most of the new game would have been fairly backwards compatible. Especially if the MC plot twists are worded in such a way that they would work as Legend Plot Twists. I'm still getting the new game to give it a fair shake, but I agree that this whole thing felt a bit like a switcheroo con. Oh well. Edited by Mordis, Jun 1 2015, 02:48 PM.
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| BatHulk | Jun 1 2015, 03:51 PM Post #79 |
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@TK: Again, I don't think they were trying to "trick" people last year. I think they really wanted to bring it back but after looking at it from a "living card game" position where you get all the cards in one box, they realized that they had to do more than just re-release it with the old engine. I'm not sure where wanting to improve (in my opinion) the Vs game experience is a "charade" or a "making fun of you". I think the last thing UDE wants to do is insult its audience. If this really were some attempt to fool the Vs 1.0 crowd, they could have just released a few more sets last year after GenCon 2014 and then announced this year that they were making these changes. That would have been a kick in the nether regions. |
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| -TK- | Jun 1 2015, 06:20 PM Post #80 |
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I'm sorry, but we have no indication that they really wanted to give us VS System. What we know is they the said they would, they got the money from the old community and then they used it for a completely different game. If they weren't sure about what they wanted to do, all they needed to do was shut up about VS System and present a new game this year. But they didn't. They explicitly told us VS System was coming back and they explicitly said that its return was bound to how well the pack last year was going to sell. What they did was asking the old vs system community money. The same community that was asking for the return of the real vs system for years. Not for a similar one, and surely not for a completely unrelated one like this. They knew what we wanted, they knew that we were going to give money to see VS System back and they take advantage of it. There is no point in denying it. You may want to play this new thing, that's ok. Have fun. Bending reality isn't. |
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| Dog | Jun 1 2015, 07:53 PM Post #81 |
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Holy shit, I'm glad I did come back, because I'm about to break a personal rule and throw down the "reading comprehension card" for the first time in my life. Read my (apparently horrific) post again. I made a joke about profiting from making fun of people, not about profiting from former players at all. Unless you have the ultimate persecution complex, there's no way to interpret selling those sets from GenCon as making fun of people. I'm honestly rubbing my eyes in disbelief that you can't understand this. |
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| BatHulk | Jun 1 2015, 08:52 PM Post #82 |
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Can someone tell me how much these Vs sets from last GenCon cost? And how many were there? Unless those things were $1000 each and there were hundreds sold, I'm not sure how sales of those sets can finance this Vs 2PCG. Developers cost money, printing cost money, packaging cost money, distribution cost money... is TK telling me that whoever bought those sets last year paid enough to finance this release at GenCon 2015? To pay for the $10k+ of prizes that UDE is going to pay out in August? I wonder if UDE even broke even on the costs to make those sets last year with what they sold them for. |
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| -TK- | Jun 1 2015, 08:56 PM Post #83 |
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Yea, nice try, but you know that when you answered me you were referring to this answer:
It's pretty clear why I talked about making fun in that answer. I was specifically referring to them getting money from people and not delivering what they promised. |
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| OMB | Jun 1 2015, 09:05 PM Post #84 |
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There are definitely a lot of people who seem to have drifted away and a lot of the new people who pop in seem to vanish after a bit. Dunno if they lose interest because they can't find enough cards or people to play with or just because the learning curve is so steep they're getting crushed. We've had people come and go after they couldn't handle the amount of losing you have to do before you start winning. Who knows. New game looks like it has some interesting things happening. I'll take a look at it and hopefully it's fun. |
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| -TK- | Jun 1 2015, 09:09 PM Post #85 |
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Nope, I'm telling you that they promised VS System and asked money for VS System. Then used it for this totally unrelated game. This would be wrong even with them making a single dollar out of those boxes. And honestly, do you want to sell me that they sold those boxes for less then their cost? Cause that makes them look even worse then they already are. Which I really didn't think was possible. |
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| Cosmic | Jun 1 2015, 10:35 PM Post #86 |
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I'm astonished by how many dead games I've kept playing are being gutted, necromanced, and shilled by their owners. Such crushing disappointment. Though it's not surprising this 'new' company is still using bait and switch tactics. This game and the spirit are not same. From its inception VS was hyper competitive and complex, this incarnation is neither. A real shame since small LCG releases seemed like the perfect platform for a rerelease as it doesn't necessitate casuals like TCGs. VS has always had freedom and nuance at every facet, it's simply not in this game. Speaking of anti-life equations, I need to finish my villain encounter: Darkseid deck. Edited by Cosmic, Jun 1 2015, 10:44 PM.
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| bigboj55555 | Jun 1 2015, 10:56 PM Post #87 |
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To be honest i do like being able to spend only 50 bucks and getting a playset of every card in the set. I remember how hard it was to find straights,enemy,savages,mobilize(especially if you arrived late to the game). But to say the games mechanics needed to be changed is just wrong. Missing drops was part of the game(any game really). I loved initiative and how you and your opponent were on the same level each turn. I have played mtg and vs system and i like vs way more. the fact that all your cards in your deck are playable is better. Anyone who has played mtg can tell you how frustrating it is to get stuck drawing lands or not having lands. Not to mention you can play characters and as many plot twist you want each turn. Personally i'm just going to add the new cards to what has already been printed an call vs 1.0. Ude just gave me new cards and i have to thank them for that at least. Hopefully we can all come to a consensus on what vs 1.0 is and use the new interest in the game to show that Vs system is still viable. Also side decking changes the game completely. imagine being able side in flame traps,unmasked,political pressure betrayal, no man. You could cripple a deck and essentially make your opponents cards blank Edited by bigboj55555, Jun 1 2015, 11:01 PM.
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| BatHulk | Jun 2 2015, 12:20 AM Post #88 |
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I'm not understanding your logic here. Wasn't the money those people paid (were you one of them?) for that box set, not for any future sets? Was there some type of promise that if you bought the "living card game" version at last year's GenCon you would get the same exact Vs you wanted in a future release? I understand that may have been the expectation but I don't think buying last year's box set created some type of contract that UDE had to deliver on. And yes, they may have lost money on that set. I don't know how many were printed and how many were sold nor do I remember what they sold for. I know the approximate printing/packaging costs for fixed card sets locally (it's way cheaper overseas) but I can't know what their margins are without numbers. I don't know if that makes them "worse", as it would be difficult to gauge demand for a game that had been discontinued 6 years prior. Either way, would it make you feel better if you realized that it's not personal... it's business. Take it from me, I ordered so much Marvel Evolution for my store in hopes that there would be another set after that... and we know how that turned out... and I was stuck with boxes of MEV. |
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| Mordis | Jun 2 2015, 01:05 AM Post #89 |
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I bought one of the sets at Gen Con last year (and convinced 3 or 4 friends to do the same) and while I don't remember the exact quote the message was clear "if this does well, we'll bring back Vs. System". I spoke to several UDE employees including Brenner, and I specifically remember the phrase "the game we know and love" in response to some of my questions as to how the game's return would work. So essentially it was a Kickstarter with a box of Marvel Origins cards as a "Pledge Bonus" for a $50 pledge. I doubt they knew then that they would be changing so much. In fact I don't think they knew they were changing this much 6 (more like 4) months ago based on that video floating around of Brenner at some other con. At that point we were still being told that the two games would be compatible for kitchen table play. I hope the new game is great, but it does feel shitty. Edited by Mordis, Jun 2 2015, 01:10 AM.
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| BatHulk | Jun 2 2015, 05:58 AM Post #90 |
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@Mordis: Thanks for the clarification. I would hope that they could simplify it but keep it compatible with the old cards, which is why one of my projects is to see if I can bridge that gap with some "house rules". Especially for those of us who want to play with DC characters. :) In that light, I think I can understand TK's position more. We'll see how that shakes out... but until then I wonder if I can play Vs with these DC Deck Building Cards, they look pretty nice. |
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