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| Origins playtest impressions from Facebook | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 7 2015, 03:57 AM (1,755 Views) | |
| Xtortion | Jun 7 2015, 03:57 AM Post #1 |
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VS System Collective Credit - Brian Le on the VS System Collective Facebook page Tried my best to summarize most of his info:
Certain facts like the (assumed) low ATK/high DEF of MCs make a lot of sense to me and help bring the game into perspective. Good to hear that MCs are varied and will likely have significant influence on deck construction and tactics. The starting hand size of seven cards should make up for not being able to play plot twists from the resource row, and further mitigate missing drops. VS System or not, most of the info sounds good to me - I'm optimistic. Edited by Xtortion, Jun 7 2015, 08:38 PM.
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| Psychotime | Jun 7 2015, 04:11 PM Post #2 |
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Yep, I'm pretty much sold the second I see Guardians pop up. Also, Groot is confirmed to be a playable main character. Edited by Psychotime, Jun 7 2015, 04:24 PM.
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| Christo | Jun 7 2015, 06:26 PM Post #3 |
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Thanks for the info! Can't wait to see some of the actual product. |
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| bortrea | Jun 7 2015, 11:37 PM Post #4 |
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Yeah it's killing me. I hate waiting. This sounds more and more interesting, just the same. |
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| Xtortion | Jun 8 2015, 02:17 AM Post #5 |
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Another interesting tidbit was posted recently. Apparently, character super powers don't operate off a single resource type. Instead, there are multiple resources produced by locations - similar to lands in Magic. While team-ups may not be on the cards, I can see kind of a psuedo team-up mechanic when choosing which characters to use based off their super power resource costs. Do I stick to characters that use Resource X for maximum consistency, or do I mix in some characters that use Resource Y for added power, while putting myself at a greater risk of not drawing the resources I need? And how will main characters play into this? Surely MC super powers will cost a certain type of resource...will MC choice affect what resources - and therefore what characters - I put in my deck? Lots to think about. |
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| bortrea | Jun 8 2015, 03:19 AM Post #6 |
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Brian reported there are colors associated with locations, including a wild type. I presume this will lock super powers to a location type of a certain color. |
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| Psychotime | Jun 8 2015, 07:27 AM Post #7 |
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I'm gonna guess the other types are something like Cosmic, Science, Radiation, and Magic I'm trying to think of things all encompassing so that the potential expansions that use different source material outside of Marvel can be covered. Radiation's probably pushing it in terms of all encompassing, but with Marvel there's so many characters that would use it. I admit that while I never would have imagined VS using this kind of resource system (especially since...you know, it outright avoided it in the first iteration) I have to say that I'm interested in the idea of a colored resource system along with the generic points. There's no denying that the 5-color mana system is one of the greatest strengths of Magic, and I can imagine that it'll result in more interesting designs than what a colorless resource system allows. There were ways to still make distinct effects in VS 1.0 and having cards be more useful in some decks over others, but the majority of the time it was simply team-stamping things. A robust resource system allows for so much more variety in decks. I personally don't think it was a necessary way to go with VS, but it's a very good idea that has been proven to work with the right people behind it. The fact that the colored resources in this game are one use only is also very interesting. Edited by Psychotime, Jun 8 2015, 02:57 PM.
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| plaid_warlock | Jun 8 2015, 03:51 PM Post #8 |
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I was big into Magic and then dumped it to play VS. for its entire lifespan. Recently I have dabbled in Magic again and it's led to a conclusion. I hate Magic's resource mechanics. I hate that I have to fill a third of my deck with cards that don't do anything other than make mana. It seems completely dumb to me now. So yeah, not happy about this new resource system. I'm glad that you only have to spend the resources for powers though. It does raise an interesting question that maybe someone else can answer. If someone spends the locations for powers, are you still able to use them to generate resource points for character recruitment. Let's say I have 4 locations in play, all face-up. I turn 2 of them face-down to pay for a power. Can I still recruit a 4-cost character now or do the 2 locations I spent now become completely useless? |
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| BatHulk | Jun 8 2015, 04:29 PM Post #9 |
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If they keep the resource system similar to Vs 1.0, face down or face up, turn 4 should give you 4 total points to recruit. So if they are not doing threshold for PTs... did they go the WoW route where you have to exhaust resources to use effects (which is probably why Location powers are activated by turning face down)? Edited by BatHulk, Jun 8 2015, 04:33 PM.
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| -TK- | Jun 8 2015, 05:15 PM Post #10 |
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They probably just cut it, made PT free to play and add additional note for the few plot twist you couldn't play on the go. If you think about it, with the exeption of tutors, PT cost was irrelevant unless your opponent was trying to screw you up with Bad Press turn 1 --> Black Cat tun 2. |
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| Psychotime | Jun 8 2015, 08:02 PM Post #11 |
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I was the complete opposite. VS System was my first serious CCG, and after it died I moved onto Magic. I have a soft spot for VS, but I feel Magic is a superior game in literally every possible way. Once I returned to VS I found the game extremely slow, predictable, and full of awkward design choices at the fundamental level, and it had gone on too long to fix any of them. To be completely honest, I find most complaints about Magic's mana system very shallow and superficial. Edited by Psychotime, Jun 8 2015, 08:08 PM.
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| -TK- | Jun 9 2015, 07:32 AM Post #12 |
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Lol, I've done a couple of pro tour and I think you are the only magic player ever that think the resourse system in Mtg is superior to anything. A big part of the game at a good level tournament was keeping your head cool after a couple of mana flood or mana screw hands. Since the Swiss tournament that most games used has a cut off for a Top8, months of preparation may go down the drain just cause you draw too many lands in the first post side deck game in the decisive match. It is a flawed system. The guys at WotC did a great job covering that, with some truly ingenious solution. Fetch lands for instance are amzing. But there is a reason if every single card game after Magic dumped the land system for something better. Edited by -TK-, Jun 9 2015, 07:33 AM.
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| Psychotime | Jun 9 2015, 04:46 PM Post #13 |
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Your complaint is that a randomized card game gives random results, and that's bad because the randomness isn't always in your favor. It speaks for itself. You also completely ignore the five colors, which is the backbone of the entire game. What the five color system does is create variance in decks and strategies through limitations. Having different resources have different strengths and weaknesses makes for a large variety of decks: Decks that combine resources to try to overcome weaknesses at the risk of variance playing against them. Decks that focus on a single resource and focus on their singular strengths. Decks that exploit the weaknesses of other decks. And this is all because not every card is playable in every deck. On top of the 5 colors, a random progression creates variance in gameplay and quashes predictability. And that's better gameplay. I hate having every single game play exactly the same. I like a game that rewards me for having contingency plans when things don't go my way. VS 1.0 was a game where every deck would have a playset of Moblize that will always be used on turn 3 to search for the exact same card they used last game. Make the exact same play on turn 5 that they did last game. At that point it's barely a game, it's just putting cards on a table in an on-rails sequence. And I realized how braindead boring that was the second I came back to VS. I realized in writing this that you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying that Magic as a game is superior to VS in every way. Not that every game needs to copy it's resource system. As a concept, the resource system of VS 1.0 can work, but it was poorly implemented in ways that lead to boring paint by numbers gameplay and repetitive decks. They can easily screw up this new system, as well, but seeing how it's designed to be random there's some hope it'll be done in a way that doesn't get stale to play. Just to humor your last comment, I'll name some card games (still active at that) with a randomized resource system or progression: Pokemon, Game of Thrones, UFS, Call of Cthulhu, Crusade, Force of Will. Game of Thrones is honestly a game that VS could learn alot from in regards to how it designs around a singular resource system, and that's even without bringing up the random progression. Pokemon is a game that has the exact same problems that VS 1.0 did, and that was a game where mana screw was technically possible. |
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| BatHulk | Jun 9 2015, 06:29 PM Post #14 |
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@psychotime: Not sure what you mean by Pokemon had the same exact problems that Vs 1.0 did. And I don't agree that VS as a whole had repetitive decks, there seems to be quite a bit of variation if my memory serves me correctly. I think there are 2 issues here, dedicated cards for resources and typed resources. The former results in screw/flood and most can agree that it's NPE but at the same time, that introduces the randomness that allows a casual player to beat a pro player. Typed resources is beneficial as it creates a flavor for decks (which is similar to what the Teams and later the Mutant Traits were in VS 1.0) but also creates constraints. |
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| -TK- | Jun 9 2015, 07:30 PM Post #15 |
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Lol. I ignored the 5 colors cause that's not what we are talking about. You can have 5 colors with different resource systems. I know that cause games with that kind of property exist. Having different factions in a game is kind of the standard right now. Teams and colors are not that different, after all. In VS there are too much "colors" and that lead to some problems, but this has nothing to do with the resource system. So sorry. But having 5 colors have nothing to do with what we are talking about. You didn't play a lot of VS System if you think every deck played a set of mobilize. :D The situation where you miss a drop and you lose in VS System wasn't dependant on its resource system in the first place. It was due to how fast characters got bigger, and that was due to the shared turn system. I know that cause I've played tons of games where the resources have a similar "regularity" (Hearthstone, for instance") without this same problem. So yea, all the problems you are talking about are not slightly related to the resource system. And you may like Magic more. That's entirely your business. XD I mean, I won money on that game and I hope you managed to do the same, at some point. XD And I never said that randomized resource are bad. I've played Pkmn and GoT, and tried FoW, and really, if you didn't notice that all of them worked in the direction of regolate the resource system, you need to go back and play them once again. Damn, FoW is basically Magic with the fixed resource system. XD They just took the land out the deck and put them in their own pile... XD |
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