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Origins playtest impressions from Facebook
Topic Started: Jun 7 2015, 03:57 AM (1,754 Views)
Psychotime
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-TK-
Jun 9 2015, 07:30 PM
I've played Pkmn and GoT, and tried FoW, and really, if you didn't notice that all of them worked in the direction of regolate the resource system, you need to go back and play them once again.

Damn, FoW is basically Magic with the fixed resource system. XD They just took the land out the deck and put them in their own pile... XD
Game of Thrones has the player control their minimum amount of resources through their plot cards, but to gain more than that minimum as the game progresses, you must invest in locations (and characters, if you're playing Lannister) that add to your amount or lessen costs, and only if you manage to draw them from your deck. The players set their minimum, but progression is random, and dependent on how the player built their deck. If you build a deck with cards that are too expensive, you'll have to rely on drawing the right resources during gameplay.

Pokemon assigned resources to a separate card type that have to be drawn from the deck at random. Like Magic, you can get screwed and not draw what you want, and like Magic, mixing two colors at once will result in an even trickier deck to play.

Force of Will is essentially Magic with the lands set as a separate deck (that is shuffled), and the player must invest their Ruler in order to add to their resource pool each turn. The second you use more than one color (or use non-basic resources), your resources get trickier and you can color screw yourself. Progression becomes random once your deck becomes more advanced, and only grows the more colors your deck has. Even in a two color deck you can get color screwed if you use cards that are too color intensive, and it's smarter to build a deck with cards that are less mana intensive, but balanced to be weaker.

Quote:
 
And I never said that randomized resource are bad.


What are you saying, then?
Edited by Psychotime, Jun 9 2015, 10:24 PM.
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OnyxWeapon
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so to clarify,
You post in the VS System forum.

Psychotime
Jun 8 2015, 08:02 PM
VS System was my first serious CCG, and after it died I moved onto Magic. I have a soft spot for VS, but I feel Magic is a superior game in literally every possible way.

and wonder why people seem to be argumentative with you?

This entire forum is dedicated to the mindset that VS isn't dead and has been focused on cultivating a post-UDE resource where players can still throw down.

I'm glad to hear you have a "soft-spot" for traditional VS. I guess i'm not understanding why you are here NOW as all this information is available through facebook and realworx (our migrated new home in the next few weeks)

Most of us will simply sum up with:

"I disagree with that statement."
and leave it at that.
Edited by OnyxWeapon, Jun 10 2015, 05:06 AM.
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ukyo_rulz
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Psychotime
Jun 8 2015, 08:02 PM
To be completely honest, I find most complaints about Magic's mana system very shallow and superficial.
As a judge observing matches on various levels of competition from FNMs to GPs, I would say that the number of non-games taking place in any given tournament is simply astounding. Just complete wastes of time where one or both players flounder around doing nothing. Just watch this recent VS Video series from SCG if you don't believe me:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30970_BBD-VS-CVM-Abzan-Rally-VS-GR-Dragons.html

The mana system of MtG is designed not to produce "fun games", but instead to create "free wins" and serve as a scapegoat that players can blame their losses on. Mark Rosewater said so himself:

Quote:
 
If you want people to play your game, the vast majority of people playing your game aren’t going to be good. You know. And no matter what, somebody’s going to be better, and the better players are going to win, and the worse players are going to lose. So if you make a game in which the better players always win, that’s a problem, because you’re not going to get new players...

Now, it’s fine that the better players win more, you know, and also as I was explaining, is not only should your bad players win some of the time, but when your bad players lose, they need to have some sort of ego cushioning if you will. And the nice thing about the mana system is the mana system is an awesome scapegoat.
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-TK-
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Psychotime
Jun 9 2015, 10:22 PM
-TK-
Jun 9 2015, 07:30 PM
I've played Pkmn and GoT, and tried FoW, and really, if you didn't notice that all of them worked in the direction of regolate the resource system, you need to go back and play them once again.

Damn, FoW is basically Magic with the fixed resource system. XD They just took the land out the deck and put them in their own pile... XD
Game of Thrones has the player control their minimum amount of resources through their plot cards, but to gain more than that minimum as the game progresses, you must invest in locations (and characters, if you're playing Lannister) that add to your amount or lessen costs, and only if you manage to draw them from your deck. The players set their minimum, but progression is random, and dependent on how the player built their deck. If you build a deck with cards that are too expensive, you'll have to rely on drawing the right resources during gameplay.

Pokemon assigned resources to a separate card type that have to be drawn from the deck at random. Like Magic, you can get screwed and not draw what you want, and like Magic, mixing two colors at once will result in an even trickier deck to play.

Force of Will is essentially Magic with the lands set as a separate deck (that is shuffled), and the player must invest their Ruler in order to add to their resource pool each turn. The second you use more than one color (or use non-basic resources), your resources get trickier and you can color screw yourself. Progression becomes random once your deck becomes more advanced, and only grows the more colors your deck has. Even in a two color deck you can get color screwed if you use cards that are too color intensive, and it's smarter to build a deck with cards that are less mana intensive, but balanced to be weaker.

Quote:
 
And I never said that randomized resource are bad.


What are you saying, then?
I said that Magic resource system is bad.

Well done randomized resource systems are perfectly fine.

Pkmn, for instance played around with free "sorcey". You are basically allowed to do something even if don't get your "mana". And FoW obviously work toward the containing of mana screw and mana flood.

See, you may have your opinion on magic, and since its wide success, it may even be the better game. But there is not too much to argue about its resource system being flawed.

The only reason it kinda works is "metagame", in the original sense of the word: it goes beyond the single game experience. It's bound to how bad players can sneak a win or two against better players and don't get frustrated for repetite loss they don't fully understand.

Morover... I find you trying to explain to me how magic, and other card games I played for years, works incredibly amusing. :D Can you please go on?
Edited by -TK-, Jun 10 2015, 09:21 AM.
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-TK-
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Yea, ok... Ukyo explained my point way better then me.
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PandaMan
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Magics land system I personally feel is terrible.

If I draw 0 lands, I can't play anything. VS system, I will always have something to resource, so while I may not be playing at optimal efficiency by having to row things I won't be able to use later, at least I can still make plays as the game progresses.

Not all decks run Mobilize. Maybe that is the case in your play group but it's rare that I see the card myself. Not every game plays out the exact same way. This is usually the case for curve decks, granted, but there are plenty of strategies that do not rely on curve and use their effects and strategies differently. Toolbox decks, won't always look for the same card every game, but look for the one most useful to the situation at hand.

Magics success can be some what contributed to the fact that it was one of the first games, and has held onto a large player base, which in turn is more attractive to new players. New games that are just as good are released but quite often players don't want to leave a game they have so much investment in, or don't feel that they can fund two games at once. Magic survives a lot on the fact that it is so well known, even to people who have never played any CCG or TCG ever.

But most of these are just how I feel. Vs system 1.0's resource system I feel is pretty solid.
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Hank McCoy
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And from what I have read VS2's resource system is similar enough to VS1 in that anything can be used as a resource so as long as you have the characters in hand (more likely since you start with 7 cards), you will never miss a drop.
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Xtortion
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Additional info released over the last few days. Credit to John Tatta on the Facebook page.

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-X-Men team with Wolverine, Storm, Professor X, and Rogue as main characters. Storm puts -1/-1 counters on characters, Wolverine increases his attack, Professor X mills for characters, and Rogue can copy character powers.

-Villains team with Magneto, Thanos, Loki, and Green Goblin as main
characters. Thanos can remove characters from the KO’d pile to gain +1/+1 counters.

-Many cards add + or – 1/-1 counters to characters

-Powering up a character gives them a +1/+1 counter

-Characters lose all +/- counters when stunned

-Many supporting characters have more than 1 health

-Main characters' total stats generally equal to 6-7. Professor X is a 0/6, Loki is a 1/5, Storm is a 2/5, Thanos is a 3/4.

-Locations are generally color coded (generate different resource types); character super powers may require any combination of resource colors to activate.

-Star Lord can affiliate other characters with Guardians.

-Professor X gains XP when the player doesn't attack for the turn


Star Lord and Professor X in particular are very interesting. If they pay off, they could open up unique strategies for deckbuilding.
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KardKrazy
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Was it confirmed the set has 400 cards in it (I thought it had at one point)? If so that worries me a little because there is suppose to be 4 copies of each card. That means the set is only 100 different cards and a deck has to be 60 cards (that was confirmed). I'm also curious if there will be Army cards. If so that is gonna be interesting trying to get numerous copies of the card.

Just curious is all.

P.S: I'm liking the sound of Thanos.
Edited by KardKrazy, Jun 11 2015, 11:25 PM.
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BatHulk
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Oof... more counters... +1/+1 and wounds too?

Are we sure this isn't Pokemon 2.0? :)
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OMB
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BatHulk
Jun 11 2015, 11:41 PM
Oof... more counters... +1/+1 and wounds too?

Are we sure this isn't Pokemon 2.0? :)
Haha my joke was that it'll be like playing Mancala. I like Mancala though so that's OK. [laugh]
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xMr. Lemon Headx
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OMB
Jun 12 2015, 12:48 AM
BatHulk
Jun 11 2015, 11:41 PM
Oof... more counters... +1/+1 and wounds too?

Are we sure this isn't Pokemon 2.0? :)
Haha my joke was that it'll be like playing Mancala. I like Mancala though so that's OK. [laugh]
I was thinking the same thing. Mancala is super fun!
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Xtortion
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Hopefully they have some decent counters in the box that distinguish between plus and minus stats.
Edited by Xtortion, Jun 12 2015, 03:34 AM.
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BatHulk
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Xtortion
Jun 12 2015, 03:33 AM
Hopefully they have some decent counters in the box that distinguish between plus and minus stats.
Red and green... hehe.

I tend to dislike the over usage of counters/tokens... but I'll reserve judgement until the game is out.

I don't game anymore but I am excited about this "not" Vs.
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